16 Years ago today...

[observer1]

Whatever helps you sleep at night, he was smack dab in the middle of his prime and he lost. I know that's tough to swallow for his fans, it happens to almost every fighter. Sorry kid.

How was he in the middle of his prime Saad?

Sure, physically he was better of Post-Prison.

But can you actually say with a serious face, that he was better Post-Prison than when he was Pre-Prison?

If you actually sit down and watch his fights Pre and Post Prison, you could be convinced it was 2 different fighters.

To Quote...

He was 41-1 before Prison. (Broke all the records)

9(2) - 5 after prison over the course of 10 years.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Whatever helps you sleep at night, he was smack dab in the middle of his prime and he lost. I know that's tough to swallow for his fans, it happens to almost every fighter. Sorry kid.

How was he in the middle of his prime Saad?

Sure, physically he was better of Post-Prison.

But can you actually say with a serious face, that he was better Post-Prison than when he was Pre-Prison?

If you actually sit down and watch his fights Pre and Post Prison, you could be convinced it was 2 different fighters.

To Quote...

He was 41-1 before Prison. (Broke all the records)

9(2) - 5 after prison over the course of 10 years.

He fought Douglas before he went to prison. Where in the world did you get that I think his prime was after prison? Was it when I said the exact opposite of that right after your post? You're not following along very well.

[misterpunch]

prison only slammed in the last nail of his coffin - his head was not in the best place way before douglas knocked it off! women trouble, trainer trouble, media trouble, ego trouble, accountant trouble, promoter trouble, - this guy had to be some kind of god to have kept his form during that whirlwind...and he wasnt

[SaadOffTheDeck]

prison only slammed in the last nail of his coffin - his head was not in the best place way before douglas knocked it off! women trouble, trainer trouble, media trouble, ego trouble, accountant trouble, promoter trouble, - this guy had to be some kind of god to have kept his form during that whirlwind...and he wasnt

Still complete bullshit.

[hhaehre]

Holyfield vs Tyson. "FINALLY"

Great performance from Evander. Not to undermine or diminish such a victory, but just how ANYONE felt Tyson would be the fighter he was four years previous, when this fight was originally scheduled, let alone the fighter he was during his peak, is laughable.

Why is that laughable? At the time Holyfield was considered passed it after poor showings in the third Bowe fight and the Czyz fight while Tyson had looked pretty good in his comeback, especially in his destruction of Bruno. The fight was more a case of Evander proving people wrong than Tyson being a shadow of his old self.

It's laughable because the man had been inactive for four years, thereof them spent in a prison cell, meaning during three years he didn't even lace up a pair of gloves, let alone do anything else remotely to do with Boxing. He was never going to be the fighter he was before he went to jail, let alone the one who tore through the division at his peak.

It's not laughable because AT THE TIME it looked like he was back in full force. In hindsight it's easy to say he was in fact diminished but you couldn't say that on the back of the second Bruno fight and going into the Holyfield fight.

[misterpunch]

exactly - its hindsight. looking at evidence which might have been obscured by other factors at the time of your original assessment. its not bullshit - in fact its the opposite of bullshit.

however, saad, your entitled to yours

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Hindsight is essential in evaluating anything properly, that doesn't make your thoughts immune from bullshit. That's all you're spouting when you tell me Tyson was well past his prime in Tokyo, pure unadulterated bullshit.

[banjo]

prison only slammed in the last nail of his coffin - his head was not in the best place way before douglas knocked it off! women trouble, trainer trouble, media trouble, ego trouble, accountant trouble, promoter trouble, - this guy had to be some kind of god to have kept his form during that whirlwind...and he wasnt

Buster Douglas lead up was worse though, his mother died 3 weeks before the fight, his sons mother was seriously ill and he caught the flu the day before the fight and still left Tyson crawling around on the canvas. Everyone has issues, some just don't let it affect their professional life.

[dan28uk]

Whatever helps you sleep at night, he was smack dab in the middle of his prime and he lost. I know that's tough to swallow for his fans, it happens to almost every fighter. Sorry kid.

your so arrogant y cant u just except someone else's opinion.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Whatever helps you sleep at night, he was smack dab in the middle of his prime and he lost. I know that's tough to swallow for his fans, it happens to almost every fighter. Sorry kid.

your so arrogant y cant u just except someone else's opinion.

First off, the arrogant comments were quite mutual. Secondly, why can't you just accept me not accepting his opinion?

[dan28uk]

Whatever helps you sleep at night, he was smack dab in the middle of his prime and he lost. I know that's tough to swallow for his fans, it happens to almost every fighter. Sorry kid.

your so arrogant y cant u just except someone else's opinion.

First off, the arrogant comments were quite mutual. Secondly, why can't you just accept me not accepting his opinion?

i do, you just come across that way

[SaadOffTheDeck]

your so arrogant y cant u just except someone else's opinion.

First off, the arrogant comments were quite mutual. Secondly, why can't you just accept me not accepting his opinion?

i do, you just come across that way

That's a shame, isn't my intention. Humor doesn't always translate as well in writing. On the other hand, he couldn't be more wrong so i'll accept some arrogance when refuting the ridiculous.

[misterpunch]

can you blame anyone for thinking youre are an arrogant so and so? the truth is its YOU who are unable to accept the opinion of someone else for a very good reason;

1. my argument is a winner

and i'm not a tyson fan - never have been - in fact i firmly believe that allying oneself to a favourite fighter seriously ruins ones judgement..you have proved that

[gilgamesh]

I don't think Mike was past his prime in Tokyo against Douglas, he just trained like he was going in there against a bum that he could blow out in 1 round. When he couldn't, he was f***ed. If he had trained for the Douglas fight, like he was going to be fighting a vicious challenger hell bent on taking his title, it very well may have been a different result, but he didn't and it wasn't. I don't think he would have ever beaten Holyfield though, Tyson was a classic bully and Holy ate up guys with bully mentalities because he wouldn't scared of any fighter. I think he would've always broken Tyson's will over the course of 12 rounds.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

can you blame anyone for thinking youre are an arrogant so and so? the truth is its YOU who are unable to accept the opinion of someone else for a very good reason;

1. my argument is a winner

and i'm not a tyson fan - never have been - in fact i firmly believe that allying oneself to a favourite fighter seriously ruins ones judgement..you have proved that

No, I'm definitely extremely opinionated/arrogant. Can you accept that you're the same? Your argument is flimsy and weak. I never accused you of being a Tyson fan and your assertion that I'm biased is just more confirmation of your own arrogance.

[Recycle]

can you blame anyone for thinking youre are an arrogant so and so? the truth is its YOU who are unable to accept the opinion of someone else for a very good reason;

1. my argument is a winner

and i'm not a tyson fan - never have been - in fact i firmly believe that allying oneself to a favourite fighter seriously ruins ones judgement..you have proved that

No, I'm definitely extremely opinionated/arrogant. Can you accept that you're the same? Your argument is flimsy and weak. I never accused you of being a Tyson fan and your assertion that I'm biased is just more confirmation of your own arrogance.

Wow saad getting into Internet fights constantly. One hand on the keyboard and the other rubbing Erik morales ballsacks

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Thankfully, I have you rubbing mine.

[misterpunch]

does he do this a lot? have i been suckered into this one? - oh well, we live and learn. gilgermesh's argument is opposed to mine but there is (like my own) not a trace of arrogance in it - thats how it should be.

thanks for the warning and i wont get caught again

[SaadOffTheDeck]

That's certainly your prerogative if you have no wish for an education. I look forward to many years of you not responding to my comments and may you find a comfortable resting place under Mike's scrotum.

[Bobbyptsd]

does he do this a lot? have i been suckered into this one? - oh well, we live and learn. gilgermesh's argument is opposed to mine but there is (like my own) not a trace of arrogance in it - thats how it should be.

thanks for the warning and i wont get caught again

He often mistakes arrogance, for some kind of superiority.

He isn't nearly as smart as he'd like to think, and he can't write very well, but he is persistent, I'll give him that. It's sort of like trying to argue with a person with down syndrome who's absolutely convinced he's smarter than you, he won't give up.

That's about the nicest thing I have to say about him.

[bollox]

16 years ago ey? It doesn't seem like that long ago but that's probably because it was such a monumental moment in boxing (monumental for all the wrong fukking reasons)

[SaadOffTheDeck]

does he do this a lot? have i been suckered into this one? - oh well, we live and learn. gilgermesh's argument is opposed to mine but there is (like my own) not a trace of arrogance in it - thats how it should be.

thanks for the warning and i wont get caught again

He often mistakes arrogance, for some kind of superiority.

He isn't nearly as smart as he'd like to think, and he can't write very well, but he is persistent, I'll give him that. It's sort of like trying to argue with a person with down syndrome who's absolutely convinced he's smarter than you, he won't give up.

That's about the nicest thing I have to say about him.

I'm intelligent enough to know what ignore means. That puts me way up on you. Then again, you're just a Kung Fu junkie so it's nothing to brag about. Oh yeah, Nebraska is in the United States.

[SamWise72]

It's amazing how there wasn't one person in the universe that noticed his prime ending before the Douglas fight, as soon as he got his ass whipped it was all she wrote. Finished at 24, what a shame.

This really isn't true. Quite a lot of people were pointing out his reduced head movement, lack of combination punching etc. I thought he was on the slide after Tucker, and I remember reading serious predictions that he would lose to Tubbs.

[Syntax Error]

Holyfield vs Tyson. "FINALLY"

Great performance from Evander. Not to undermine or diminish such a victory, but just how ANYONE felt Tyson would be the fighter he was four years previous, when this fight was originally scheduled, let alone the fighter he was during his peak, is laughable.

Over four years without a fight, three of those years spent in prison - it was impossible for him to be the guy he was in 1991, let alone the guy he was at his best.

Tyson showed proper class & character in this defeat. Mike was never knocked out by shot - it was always the result of severe punishment absorbed. Displayed a great chin on this night. As did Holyfield, who stuck to the game plan.

Had they originally fought in 1991, when Evander was much more susceptible to being drawn into a slugfest, I believe that would have been his undoing. Holyfield was a much more wiser fighter some five years later.

I can't believe that fight was 16 years ago!

I can still vividly remember turning to my mates after the 2nd round & saying that Holyfield in going to 'do' Tyson by the 10th.

They all thought I was crazy when I said it, but I could just tell from the way Evander was fighting.

I didn't give him too much of a prayer pre fight, but once the fight was underway, I could just see he had the beating of Tyson.

As for the fight being in 1991, I think the result would have been the same had that come off then.

Tyson had stopped moving his head & throwing combinations even then & Holyfield would have done a similar number on him IMO.

[misterpunch]

like i said.....past his peak