top 10 all time great

theone · Post by **theone** » 14 Oct 2005, 23:12

For example you can call Ali, Clay if you are referring to him before he changed his name and there is no disrespect

Most people that call him Clay do so out of direspect for him, whether talking about him pre name change or not. Ali won the lightheavyweight gold medal is just as easy to write.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 15 Oct 2005, 02:12

when u mean p4p sense, what are u implying i mean rocky was only 185lb, theres most likely no other fighter in history at 185lb that could beat rocky, does that make him the greatest fighter??

dalek · Post by **dalek** » 15 Oct 2005, 02:57

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:when u mean p4p sense, what are u implying i mean rocky was only 185lb, theres most likely no other fighter in history at 185lb that could beat rocky, does that make him the greatest fighter??

no cos if you put armstrong etc at 185 losing none of their ability you would say they would beat the rock.

bollox · Post by **bollox** » 15 Oct 2005, 04:51

dalek wrote:
BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:when u mean p4p sense, what are u implying i mean rocky was only 185lb, theres most likely no other fighter in history at 185lb that could beat rocky, does that make him the greatest fighter??
no cos if you put armstrong etc at 185 losing none of their ability you would say they would beat the rock.

But Armstrong at 185 wouldn't be Armstrong (this could go on and on)

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 15 Oct 2005, 06:49

theone, I agree that your probably asessing this one correctly. If you ever see me use pre-change name for any fighter it is never out of disrespect. Severe disrespect is in play if someone is using the prior name and referring to times post the change.

When we are typing it is sometimes difficult to know for sure what someone is trying to say. So much information lies in the "tone" of voice.

theone · Post by **theone** » 15 Oct 2005, 07:40

So much information lies in the "tone" of voice.

Exactly why I questioned the use of the name Clay. You expressed my thoughts better than I did with the above sentence.

sharkeysboy · Post by **sharkeysboy** » 15 Oct 2005, 11:43

theone wrote:
Remember Clay fought at lightheavy in the Olympics and Patterson fought at middleweight in golden gloves.
And whats with calling him Clay?

He was Cassius Clay when he fought in the Olympics. He didn't become Muhammad Ali until after the Liston fight.

dalek · Post by **dalek** » 15 Oct 2005, 12:21

bollox wrote:
dalek wrote:
BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:when u mean p4p sense, what are u implying i mean rocky was only 185lb, theres most likely no other fighter in history at 185lb that could beat rocky, does that make him the greatest fighter??
no cos if you put armstrong etc at 185 losing none of their ability you would say they would beat the rock.
But Armstrong at 185 wouldn't be Armstrong (this could go on and on)

true but this is what i thought p4p was about.i think its why not many heavies make it.

sharkeysboy · Post by **sharkeysboy** » 15 Oct 2005, 12:24

I actually have a logic behind leaving heavies off a p4p list. Boxing is the only sport that allows for size differential. There is no NFL for little guys. No NBA for short fellas. There will never be a debate as to whether Henry Aaron was P4P better than some 5'2" guy who played in the "Lightweight Leagues." We know simply that Henry Aaron was the greatest homerun hitter of all time. And in boxing there can be no arguement that Muhammad Ali could beat up everybody else that ever walked the earth. All the great heavweights can beat up all the little guys. Hell, most of the medicore heavyweights can beat up all the little guys. So for a P4P list to have any meaning to me it has to be based on some empirical evidence. The only evidence available is if the guy was able to overcome weight limitations to succeed in a higher weight class. And someone who steps up to heavyweight from a much lighter weight class like Langford and has success seems to me a sure thing as number one P4P. Heavyweights don"t have a superweight division to step up to. So that's why I leave them off. A list that just says who was the scariest guy to step into a ring has to be filled with heavyweights. But that's what we do when we name the greatest heavyweights of all time. P4P is a different subject.

bollox · Post by **bollox** » 15 Oct 2005, 12:29

Based on that, someone like Hagoler who never moved up scores lower than say a Chavez or Trinidad?

Moving up is way overrated

dalek · Post by **dalek** » 15 Oct 2005, 12:35

bollox wrote:Based on that, someone like Hagoler who never moved up scores lower than say a Chavez or Trinidad?

Moving up is way overrated

i agree its just as impressive dominating a division for years.