Corrie Sanders -How really good was he or could have been?

[kaiserbill]

Mmmmmm...

Why would you possibly bring his skin colour into this?
It hasn't been mentioned yet, and nor is it of any importance.

Do you really see things so fully through the prism of race?

Saad I understand would cheerlead on this, given his posting history on the subject of skin colour and/or nationality over the years from what I've seen.

I feel the unusual and first reference to skin colour is usually the resort of people with an agenda of some description.


Apart from the fact that instead of posting the fights up, and making gross errors (Puritty was a 12 rounder for example, not 10), the opinion is more easily given than the posting of a video. The whole point of the thread is a discussion on how good or not he was, and footage is helpful in that regard.
I guess apart from the errors and mocking pseudo-intellectual opinion without posting footage, the racial fixation alone is an indicator of a poster to avoid communicating with, sadly.

[loaded_gloves]

How and why am I supposed to post footage, Wilhelm Kaiser?

Yes, Mike Dixon was an 8 rounder, Puritty a 12 rounder, I know this, you know this, we all know this, I never stated Puritty was of any specific length, I said it went the distance and was dull.

I really would have thought a man with your Corrie Sanders fascination would own these fights already, as I do.

Why on earth I would spend literally days of my life transferring long fights from VHS to DVD then somehow to laptop/internet to put Corrie Sanders fights in this thread is lost on me. Why would I do that with my life? To what end?

If you want to argue that these were fast-paced action fights that prove your imagined vision of Corrie Sanders really did exist in reality and therfore could compete with elite heavyweights, you might as well go dispute the time of day with the moon.

[Jaywheel]

But, but, he beat Johnny Duplooy!!!!!!!!!!!!!

lmao

[kaiserbill]

How and why am I supposed to post footage, Wilhelm Kaiser?

Yes, Mike Dixon was an 8 rounder, Puritty a 12 rounder, I know this, you know this, we all know this, I never stated Puritty was of any specific length, I said it went the distance and was dull.

I really would have thought a man with your Corrie Sanders fascination would own these fights already, as I do.

Why on earth I would spend literally days of my life transferring long fights from VHS to DVD then somehow to laptop/internet to put Corrie Sanders fights in this thread is lost on me. Why would I do that with my life? To what end?

If you want to argue that these were fast-paced action fights that prove your imagined vision of Corrie Sanders really did exist in reality and therfore could compete with elite heavyweights, you might as well go dispute the time of day with the moon.

Firstly, let's get the wording correct.

I don't like to have words put into my mouth.

I said:

Plenty of taped evidence out there of him maintaining a decent workrate over 10 rounds, again as mentioned above...

"Fast paced actions fights" are your words, your construct.

I stated the above in response to a poster who said he was a 3 round fighter who was gassed after that.
The evidence points otherwise, particularly early in his career, as the poster was gracious enough to acknowledge.

I'm not fascinated by Sanders.

I think Sanders had weaknessess and strengths.
I know that later in his career he was really a 4 round fighter, but there is a mitigating cause for that.
It is well documented by people around Sanders, not used as an excuse ever by him.
It also caused him to stop playing rugby, a sport which he loved.

You seem to discount this completely, rather jokingly.
Why, I'm unsure of.

He would hardly be the first fighter hindered by an injury later in his career.

Even when fit and in his prime, he had a tendency to have quite an upright, open stance.

I have those fights, but unlike you, haven't used them to drive an agenda as in your early post.
I merely stated he maintained a decent workrate, and had gone the distance 11 times, all for a unanamous points decision.
Whether you find the Puritty fight dull is of no consequence at all to the thread, and his ability to win a unanamous verdict over 12.
It is an opinion.

Either way, in the interests of the questions asked in the thread, some early Sanders decision fights, with the later Puritty fight last.
There are others out there, but that's enough for now..


Sanders vs Rouse (10 rounds)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Obhu8NFtHE8

Sanders vs Dixon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HD6yIuceDPY

Sanders v Puritty (12 rounds)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABihfNv7eUQ

[SaadOffTheDeck]

The names of the match ups you're citing say it all.

[kaiserbill]

The names of the match ups you're citing say it all.

I've noted in the past that a vast portion of your 11040 posts are of a similar low quality and value, devoid of much substance.

One of the reasons probably why Boxrec forums have a certain reputation, which often times doesn't match the excellence of the main site.

[kaiserbill]

Loaded Gloves, within the context of the thread question, I reckon the following.

I think Sanders had some excellent things going for him.
Extremely fast hands, hard punching, natural killer instinct, aggressive, had good footwork (when younger) and decent boxing skills.
Not overawed by other fighters, in a world when some freeze.

He also had some weakness.
He should have developed his jab into something other than a paw.
There are times in footage when he shows he could throw a pretty decent jab out, but many times, he pawed with his right for an opening.
He relied on his reflexes too much on defence, IMHO. Too upright.
His fitness, even as a younger man, could have been worked on even further.
Certainly, as he got older, the ACL injury plagued him more and more though.

He really should have gone to America, on reflection..........
Silly of him not to.

That's a pretty cursory look, and I'm sure others could do it better and more throughly.

You are of course completely entitled to your own opinion, as I and any other poster is too.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

The names of the match ups you're citing say it all.

I've noted in the past that a vast portion of your 11040 posts are of a similar low quality and value, devoid of much substance.

One of the reasons probably why Boxrec forums have a certain reputation, which often times doesn't match the excellence of the main site.

Nobody has a gun to your head. By all means, take your posting elsewhere.

[The Great John L]

The names of the match ups you're citing say it all.

I've noted in the past that a vast portion of your 11040 posts are of a similar low quality and value, devoid of much substance.

One of the reasons probably why Boxrec forums have a certain reputation, which often times doesn't match the excellence of the main site.

Yes, Saad can do no better than take up space at times.

The general consensus is that Sanders has virtually no resume by which to judge his abilities. His only real accomplishment was the stoppage of Wlad, which is certainly noteworthy. His only other fights against what could be considered "world class" competition resulted in less than stellar results, so he can't really be considered anything other than a one hit wonder.

The fact that he might have exhibited decent stamina against C level competition doesn't do much to counter his stamina issues. Just about anyone can spar for many rounds if they aren't pushed, and the few times that he stepped up and was pushed he faded quickly. Perhaps if he had taken his career seriously and challenged himself there could be a discussion; but he didn't so there is really nothing to discuss.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

The names of the match ups you're citing say it all.

I've noted in the past that a vast portion of your 11040 posts are of a similar low quality and value, devoid of much substance.

One of the reasons probably why Boxrec forums have a certain reputation, which often times doesn't match the excellence of the main site.

Yes, Saad can do no better than take up space at times.

I certainly take up a lot of space in your posts.

[BoxBuzz]

Rahman stopped Lennox, Sanders stopped Vlad.......which should conclusively prove that Sanders and Rahman are two of the greatest of all time. Do we really need any further empirical evidence than this?

[Brutu]

The level of Sander's competion(at least until he was almost 40 years old anyway)has been brought up a number of times on this thread.
the question should be, did Corrie Sander's management avoid 10 ten contenders and try to take a path of least resistance to a major title,
or did the top ten contenders avoid Sanders in the mid- 1990's?
Can you imagine Mike Tyson agreeing to take on Sanders
before Tyson fought Holyfield?
I think you would have seen an earlier major meltdown in the ring.

[loaded_gloves]

I honestly can't believe what I'm reading.

Avoid Sanders?

He simply wasn't a factor in the 1990s.

He wasn't a contender, he was never in the top 10 of the more honest, independent rankings, seldom in the top 20, he beat nobody and was whacked in 2 by Nate Tubbs. He wasn't even on the right continent!

Who on earth would avoid him? Tyson have a meltdown against Sanders? This is madness. This thread is utterly insane.

[Brutu]

yes utterly insane ,just like the lasting affects of long term untreated gonnerhea.

[Brutu]

I honestly can't believe what I'm reading.

Avoid Sanders?

He simply wasn't a factor in the 1990s.

He wasn't a contender, he was never in the top 10 of the more honest, independent rankings, seldom in the top 20, he beat nobody and was whacked in 2 by Nate Tubbs. He wasn't even on the right continent!

Who on earth would avoid him? Tyson have a meltdown against Sanders? This is madness. This thread is utterly insane.

Would I be correct in assuming that you are of the British persuassion sir?
Does the old English saying,
"Sending him off to Coventry"
ring any bells?
simply,maybe if they had just coninued in ignoring him, he(Sanders) would just go away.

[polecateddy]

I honestly can't believe what I'm reading.

Avoid Sanders?

He simply wasn't a factor in the 1990s.

He wasn't a contender, he was never in the top 10 of the more honest, independent rankings, seldom in the top 20, he beat nobody and was whacked in 2 by Nate Tubbs. He wasn't even on the right continent!

Who on earth would avoid him? Tyson have a meltdown against Sanders? This is madness. This thread is utterly insane.

A bit harsh! I can kind of see your point. Poor old Corrie was definitely mismanaged. And I remember listening to Five Live on the radio as he laboured to a points win over Garing Lane in 1994. He was obviously very stale at that point, and no doubt that complacency led to his loss to Nate Tubbs in my opinion. There was a huge waste of potential unfortunately.

[Brutu]

here is an early pro fight of a 25 year old Corrie Sanders(his 10th professional fight)
Sanders vrs Steve Gee
April.6.1991.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MefqNn9OIcA

[Brutu]

This is Corrie Sanders 20th professional fight.
Sanders vrs George Stephens
September.4.1993
Las Vegas Nevada.
(Sanders is moving great around in the ring here,the desert air must have been good for his knees)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyCYhWws800

[Brutu]

This was 23 year old Corrie Sanders Fifth pro fight.
Sanders vrs Samson Mahlangu
September.9.1989.
(and I believe first American television exposure)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMj6yYFs86s

[loaded_gloves]

Sanders avoided the entire scene, rather than any of them avoiding him.

He wasn't remotely feared. He simply wasn'ty a factor. Most of the time he wasn't on the continent.

It's like saying Axel Schulz was avoided, until Foreman manned up and took him on.

Sanders stayed on a seperate continent, when he did get a big show opportunity, such as when he boxed Mike Dixon or Garing Lane, he performed abysmally, and the unranked Nate Tubbs flattened him. On and on we could go, repeating the same things that have been discussed endlessly.

Anyone who followed the sport in the 1990s could not possibly think Corrie Sanders was avoided or feared, unless they are wilfully deluding themselves. He simply wasn't a consideration.

[polecateddy]

Sanders avoided the entire scene, rather than any of them avoiding him.

He wasn't remotely feared. He simply wasn'ty a factor. Most of the time he wasn't on the continent.

It's like saying Axel Schulz was avoided, until Foreman manned up and took him on.

Sanders stayed on a seperate continent, when he did get a big show opportunity, such as when he boxed Mike Dixon or Garing Lane, he performed abysmally, and the unranked Nate Tubbs flattened him. On and on we could go, repeating the same things that have been discussed endlessly.

Anyone who followed the sport in the 1990s could not possibly think Corrie Sanders was avoided or feared, unless they are wilfully deluding themselves. He simply wasn't a consideration.

...how do you know he avoided the entire scene? Insider knowledge? Or is it just your 'opinion'?

[loaded_gloves]

I followed the sport at the time.

The heavyweight division was America.

Where was Corrie again?

How terrified were the name heavyweights of a man laid out by Nate Tubbs?

How terrified were his promoters of putting their chinny South African cash cow in with a ranked figher?

It's all right there in front of you. You have already displayed poor powers of comprehension, with dingers such as 'Corrie Sanders beat Bert Cooper in 3 therefore he is better than Michael Moorer' that whatever you have to say on the matter is suspect.

It's just an utterly desperate, grasping at straws alibi for why Corrie didn't fight anyone. It has no grounding whatsoever in reality. Given that much more feared, dangerous, world ranked heavyweights were active and fighting each other, to think that anyone feared Corrie Sanders is laughable, given the more decorated and accomplished men they were willing to fight.

[Brutu]

Just think of Corrie Sanders as the Harry Wills of the the 1990's.
Although IMOP,if you were to put the two of them in their prime on the planet Gorn of Star Trek.
Sanders would have defeated Harry Wills.

[polecateddy]

I followed the sport at the time.

The heavyweight division was America.

Where was Corrie again?

How terrified were the name heavyweights of a man laid out by Nate Tubbs?

How terrified were his promoters of putting their chinny South African cash cow in with a ranked figher?

It's all right there in front of you. You have already displayed poor powers of comprehension, with dingers such as 'Corrie Sanders beat Bert Cooper in 3 therefore he is better than Michael Moorer' that whatever you have to say on the matter is suspect.

It's just an utterly desperate, grasping at straws alibi for why Corrie didn't fight anyone. It has no grounding whatsoever in reality. Given that much more feared, dangerous, world ranked heavyweights were active and fighting each other, to think that anyone feared Corrie Sanders is laughable, given the more decorated and accomplished men they were willing to fight.

I don't think it's unreasonable to say Sanders could have ring Moorer's bell.

[The Great John L]

Just think of Corrie Sanders as the Harry Wills of the the 1990's.
Although IMOP,if you were to put the two of them in their prime on the planet Gorn of Star Trek.
Sanders would have defeated Harry Wills.

Harry Wills fought and beat most of the best HWs during a talent deep era and was also bigger and better conditioned than Els, err, I mean Sanders. I'll take your post as sarcasm, although I doubt that's what was intended.