Thad Spencer 'Uncrowned Heavyweight Champion'

[klompton]

So your argument is that Ali forced Floyd Patterson (his #1 contender) into the ring at shotgun point, was losing to Cooper (laughable), tied with Liston (laughable), and was losing the rematch with Liston.


Aaaaand thats not biased?

The Ali fight proved Floyd should retire? Really? His very next fight he knocked out Henry Cooper, then he knocked out Bill McMurray in one round (right after McMurray had stopped Spencer in 7), fought two razor thin fights with Quarry (who knocked Spencer out), dropped a criminal robbery to Ellis that should have crowned him as the first three time hw champion, and at the age of 37 defeated Bonavena (which Thad Spencer couldnt have done on his best day in his wildest dreams), and looked pretty damn good in the rematch with Ali despite being at every conceivable disadvantage. Yup, he should have retired. That guy sucked and had no future... What was the eight years young Thad Spencer doing during all of that? Oh yeah, he was busy racking up loss, after loss, after loss, after loss, after loss...

[SteveO]

Thad Spencer's impressive fight record during Ali's exile years and beyond :-)
1971-06-07 LOST UD10 Tony Doyle
1971-04-23 LOST UD10 Ron Stander
1970-10-05 LOST KO2 Jose Luis Garcia
1970-05-28 LOST UD10 Tony Doyle
1970-03-18 DREW PTS10 Charlie Reno
1969-05-20 LOST KO1 Mac Foster
1968-11-12 LOST TKO6 Billy Walker
1968-05-28 LOST TKO9 Leotis Martin
1968-02-03 LOST TKO12 Jerry Quarry

[SteveO]

What's this, an anti-Thad Spencer thread.

I thought it was an anti-Ali thread!

[klompton]

Thats not saying much. Black fighters were invisible to Dempsey.

[p4p1]

Thats not saying much. Black fighters were invisible to Dempsey.

Jack crushes Clay,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Dempsey was a great HW but there were some before and after who were greater.

[klompton]

Thats not saying much. Black fighters were invisible to Dempsey.

Jack crushes Clay,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Jack wouldn't have fought him. He would have chosen to face Mike Quarry instead.

[BoxBuzz]

Dempsey like Frazier would offer him a good fight. Ali wins most encounters with a Dempsey .

[Giancarlo]

Shuddup Benito.

The only thing that is funny is you posing as a boxing expert.

Two of the best.

Guys who a fool like you isn't fit to lick their boots.

[p4p1]

It was pretty much confirmed, that Cassius Clay had no desire to defend his 'Paper Championship'
against Thad Spencer in Oakland.


Cassius was trying to sell off the Floyd Patterson II bout to the public,,,,,,,,,,with 'absolutely no takers'.

West-Coast Fight Promoter, Bernie Ford,

"Cassius is fiddling his own tune, and nobody cares anymore. He's nearly forgotten now, and soon
will be out of boxing. He has turned himself into a joke for the Press. He's more Gorgeous George
than a Heavyweight Champion."

"He wants to fight Floyd Patterson again, and then some 'Oaf' from Argentina called Oscar Bonavena, and another
bout with the clumsy Canadian - George Chuvalo who's a human punching bag. The Heavyweight Division
is a 'Circus', and Cassius Clay is the Clown."

So the lineal championship is now a paper championship then what does that make the title Terrell had? Do we have a source for that quote all quotes should have sources?

[klompton]

And thats why Ali stood head and shoulders above all of them... Because the division was equally bad - top to bottom.

[klompton]

i guess the 1970s were a bad bunch as well for an older, slower, rustier ali to come back and do what he did against them. or did ali improve like granby's peaches sitting on the shelf for three years?

[yancey]

And thats why Ali stood head and shoulders above all of them... Because the division was equally bad - top to bottom.

Yes, Cassius Clay was good boxer over a 'bad bunch'.

Can you imagine 1969-70 Frazier against '66 Cooper, London, Mildenberger, or the utterly past it Cleveland Williams?

All I can say is there better be an ambulance close by.

[yancey]

When you factor in that it took Frazier just slightly over 9 minutes to make Chuvalo turn away, it could have been said that prime Frazier would have taken less than 15 rounds to dispose of ALL five 1966 challengers.

In fact, as long as Chuvalo was first up, I think Joe beats them all in the same night!

That was a "bad bunch" indeed.

[yancey]

Yancey,

Did you ever get the feeling that if Joe Frazier and Cassius Clay were both working on the Titanic,,,

'Smokin Joe' would have been a Supervisor in the Boiler Room with the real 'tough bastards',,,,

And Cassius Marcellus Clay Jr. would have been a 'Pool Boy' getting towels for the Guests....

This seems like an accurate analogy.

Especially since Ali seems to attract "Cabana Boys" as his fan types.

[yancey]

p.s.

Who would you rather have at your side if the chips were down or if you were in a bar fight, Smokin' Joe Frazier or his "predecessor"?

I know who I choose.

[p4p1]

If we are talking people who we would rather have by our side in a bar fight I would feel very safe with this nutcase next to me

[yancey]

If we are talking people who we would rather have by our side in a bar fight I would feel very safe with this nutcase next to me

Or what about that giant Russian cave bear? What was his name, Arguev or something like that?

Or would there even be a bar fight if he was by your side?

[klompton]

You guys are comparing apples and oranges here in terms of eras, styles, etc. The bottom line isnt what a Joe Frazier of 4 years later would have done four years earlier its what an Ali did do in the time he had. If you rearrange their two reigns would you be harping on Joe Frazier for defending against Folley, Williams, Cooper, Mildenberger, Patterson, Liston, etc? Or would you harp on Ali for defending against Terry Daniels, Dave Zyglweicz, Bob Foster, Manuel Ramos, and Ron Stander? Because i will take ANY of the lower level guys Ali defended against Vs that stalwart group and this coming from a guy whose favorite fighter is Joe Frazier.

[p4p1]

If we are talking people who we would rather have by our side in a bar fight I would feel very safe with this nutcase next to me

Or what about that giant Russian cave bear? What was his name, Arguev or something like that?

Or would there even be a bar fight if he was by your side?

Have to be more specific when talking about russian bears there is a few

[yancey]

You guys are comparing apples and oranges here in terms of eras, styles, etc. The bottom line isnt what a Joe Frazier of 4 years later would have done four years earlier its what an Ali did do in the time he had. If you rearrange their two reigns would you be harping on Joe Frazier for defending against Folley, Williams, Cooper, Mildenberger, Patterson, Liston, etc? Or would you harp on Ali for defending against Terry Daniels, Dave Zyglweicz, Bob Foster, Manuel Ramos, and Ron Stander? Because i will take ANY of the lower level guys Ali defended against Vs that stalwart group and this coming from a guy whose favorite fighter is Joe Frazier.

Well, at least you have great judgment when it comes to choosing your favorite fighter.

Congratulations!

[yancey]

If we are talking people who we would rather have by our side in a bar fight I would feel very safe with this nutcase next to me

Or what about that giant Russian cave bear? What was his name, Arguev or something like that?

Or would there even be a bar fight if he was by your side?

Have to be more specific when talking about russian bears there is a few

Imagine the beer some of those freaks could put away.

[p4p1]

One of my boxing trainers is a russian guy and he told me a story where back in russia he had a road rage incident with a guy who turned out to be some pretty good wrestler so they beat the living shit out of each other on the side of the road and then went and got a beer together

[klompton]

Who gives a shit how fast someone can knock a fighter out. Thats a piss poor argument. You dont have to knock people out to win. This is a sport, not a street fight. Harry Greb and Tommy Loughran werent big punchers either. You wanna argue about the merits of either? Thats my first point. Secondly, how do you know Ali wouldnt have taken out Ziggy easily? Ali would have been the only top tier fighter Ziggy ever met outside of Frazier. Frazier's defense against him was a disgrace. One year earlier Ziggy had been banned by California state after getting a bad beating at the hands of Sam Wyatt, a fight which I have. It was recommended that he retire and get neurological tests done. This is how bad Ziggy was. Wyatt had never beaten anyone of not, had lost several matches, some by KO, and had never been over 10 rounds, losing 5 of his last 9 fights.

[evrenb]

Mr. Klompton does bring up a good counter-argument...

Muhammad Ali defending against

* Dave Zyglewicz -

Never ever could Muhammad take down Dave in 1-Minute, even if he was carrying a Pipe Wrench
in his right-hand, as Ziggy had never been floored before by anyone, dating back to his Amateur days,
including sparring-sessions with Cleveland Williams and Karl Zurheide.

Muhammad would win easily, but most likely by a TKO as a result of cuts and a face-battering.

After a few Rounds of a 'Dance-and Box' routine, Muhammad would try to neutralize Ziggy's power
by firing long-range left jabs and quick right-hand leads in Rounds 5 and 6, and start to take apart
the 'smallish' - 5' 10" 190 lbs. Ziggy with late-Round combinations in Rounds 7 and 8.

Ziggy's great physical condition would allow him to withstand the continuous rapid-fire left jabs from
Muhammad.

After a very bad start in Round 9, the Referee would save Dave from further punishment early in
the Round and stop the one-sided affair.

Going by your idiotic arguments and comparison can you explain Frazier vs Bonavena and Ali vs Bonavena?

Frazier couldn't put a dent in Ringo ...haw haw haw

[klompton]

He also couldnt put a dent in Foreman. Oh i forgot, unflattering analogies between fighters only count when they arent flattering to Ali: See Ali's and Spencer's common opponents and how that argument was ducked.