The Mosley Factor

[kal.majeed]

2002: Undefeated, #1 pound-for-pound king and 2-division world champion, USA’s “Sugar” Shane Mosley loses back-to-back unanimous decisions (UD 12) to the eight months older, undefeated, future 2-division world champion, USA’s Vernon Forrest (who scores two knockdowns of Mosley – the first knockdowns of Mosley’s career).

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Eight/Nine Years later (2010/2011): #1 and #2 pound-for-pound kings, USA’s Floyd Mayweather Jr. and Philippines’ Manny Pacquiao each win unanimous decisions (UD 12) over the 5-7 years older, former 3-division world champion “Sugar” Shane Mosley (Pacquiao scores one knockdown of Mosley).

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Strictly looking at those specific bouts and performances, who defeats Mosley in a more impressive manner? One can argue that the 2002 version of Forrest is more striking in his two wins than are Mayweather Jr. and Pacquiao combined – plus the fact that Forrest's feats are against a nearly decade younger, previously undefeated and top ‘pound-for-pound’ ranked 2-division world champion in Mosley.

Truth be told, the peak-level version of Forrest (2002) will likely stop (TKO 9-12) high-level versions (2011/2012) of Mayweather Jr./Pacquiao because of the indicated decline and time-period gap of performances.

Bonus [Without factoring in inflation, the two biggest revenue bouts in history (for cross-era ability comparisons)]:

(5/5/2007): In his final world title bout, 34-year-old, defending WBC JMW champion, USA’s Oscar De La Hoya is narrowly defeated (SD 12) by 30-year-old, reigning WBC WW champion, USA’s Floyd Mayweather Jr.

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Six plus years later (9/14/2013): Newly unified (WBA/WBC) super/world JMW champion and 23-year-old Mexican Saul ‘Canelo’ Alvarez is solidly defeated (MD 12) by 36-year-old, 5-division world champion, USA’s Floyd Mayweather Jr.

http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/Floyd ... ul_Alvarez

Does one ‘see’ another dramatic decline? The end-stage De La Hoya, giving away four years, performs significantly better than does the peak-level Alvarez, who has thirteen years in his favor and is competing against a six-years-older Mayweather Jr.

Does one really need to ‘connect the dots’ or ‘paint by numbers’ to see the ‘picture’ or is it already completed? The end-stage De La Hoya (5/5/2007) will almost certainly defeat (MD/SD 12) the peak-level Alvarez (9/14/2013) because of the indicated decline and time-period gap of performances. Such examples are consistent throughout the entire history of (boxing/sports).

Also, let us not forget who gives the up-and-coming Oscar his first (unofficial) loss – Pernell Whitaker, who wins his Olympic LW gold medal eight years prior (1984) to Oscar’s 1992 Olympic LW gold medal win.

http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/Perne ... De_La_Hoya

For good measure, recall who gives the up-and-coming Floyd Jr. his first (unofficial) loss – former Julio Cesar Chavez sparring partner Jose Luis Castillo, who turns pro six years prior (1990 as a FW) to Floyd Jr. (turns pro in 1996 as a JLW).

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http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing ... id=2467996

This base level (boxing/sports) query is not even advanced enough to describe as two plus two – it is more on the level of one plus one or one plus zero; the evidence at hand is akin to written/signed/notarized ‘confessions’ (e.g. ‘smoking guns’) and can literally be taken into an official court-of-law for possible ‘validations’.

Remember folks, the main point of research (historical or otherwise) is to cross check and verify information to attain some level of insight; if all data can be taken at face value, one will need to look no further than either old school hard copy encyclopedias or modern day online database versions…….and this is fundamentally the reason that it takes years to decades to reach even a basic level of mastery (in any field/endeavor).

P.S.

By the way, I think Dempsey and Tunney are laughing in their graves over these cross-era matchups; truth be told, one can have a ‘battle royal’ with Dempsey and Tunney on one side and one’s top five to eight best boxers (post Dempsey/Tunney era LHW/HW champions – e.g. Joe Louis on down) and ringside officials will be taking the latter group out either on stretchers or in body bags!?

Note: 7-year world HW champion Jack Dempsey’s career spans nearly a decade and a half (with over 70 bouts) and with only a single (avenged) stoppage loss; 2-year world HW champion Gene Tunney’s career spans nearly a decade and a half (with over 80 bouts) and with only a single (avenged) points loss. They both retire as millionaires (near billionaires in today’s dollars) and are financially secure for the remainder of their lives. How many other world HW champions in history have comparative marks/achievements?

Also, since many sleight-of-hand/misdirection videos (showcasing that what one sees/hears cannot always be believed) are now removed, here are three modern day classics by a master of ‘old school’ techniques/principles:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Phg5NSg0V_E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HO0Pmu45LDI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9J4WG5uksg

If one trusts one’s eyes, then one ought to easily ‘see’ how the techniques are done.

Folks, if this Mickey Mouse (boxing/sports) ‘mystery’ is not significantly deciphered for the masses, it is of little consequence to even attempt to explain and showcase a truly high-level query a.k.a. ‘The Mysteries/Secrets of the Universe’……

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Forrest was clearly the most impressive.

After that I'd take Floyd, simply because Shane was the champion heading in.

Pacquiao was nothing more than a shameless money grab.

[The End]

::Sigh:: I can't tell if you're joking or not but the " A beats B and B beats C so A beats C " doesn't work with boxing . Frazier beat Ali and Ali beat Foreman . Does Frazier beat Foreman? No he gets thrashed. I would bet my liver that Mayweather would beat Forrest.

[IKSRTFO]

Forest was highly impressive, truly underrated, and never capitalized because of his injuries. Had he stayed healthy, he would've been a dangerous risky opponent for both Pacquiao and Floyd.

[kal.majeed]

::Sigh:: I can't tell if you're joking or not but the " A beats B and B beats C so A beats C " doesn't work with boxing . Frazier beat Ali and Ali beat Foreman . Does Frazier beat Foreman? No he gets thrashed. I would bet my liver that Mayweather would beat Forrest.

Your examples are not cross-era bouts - look for examples with major time and age differences (as the noted examples given).

Frazier (and Norton) are younger, turn pro years later (compared to Ali) and their peaks are in relative comparison to Foreman, who declines them both.

The significantly declined (1970s) version of Ali is a victim of the proverbial "styles make fights" (when discussing Frazier/Norton) but still formidable enough to first defeat/stop Foreman, only stop Bonavena, first stop Lyle and first defeat L. Spinks (all examples of cross-era declines).

[Ambling Alp II]

Forest was highly impressive, truly underrated, and never capitalized because of his injuries. Had he stayed healthy, he would've been a dangerous risky opponent for both Pacquiao and Floyd.

Forest looked great vs Mosley and not so good in other fights. Hard fighter to judge. At his best, would give almost anyone trouble.

[dempseyfire]

Forest was highly impressive, truly underrated, and never capitalized because of his injuries. Had he stayed healthy, he would've been a dangerous risky opponent for both Pacquiao and Floyd.

Completely agree. The constant injuries really sunk his career but he was a true talent with elite skills. Also think his rep would be higher if he hadn't gotten jobbed in the Mayorga rematch . . .horrible decision.