Light Welterweights

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 06 Dec 2005, 16:15

Aftermath wrote:Meldrick Taylor had more speed and threw more punches in combinations than Floyd Mayweather. It’s also true that Floyd has sharper reflexes than Roger but hasn’t scored one punch knockouts over quality opposition like Roger. Chavez got through Taylor’s speed and Mayweather’s power and physically battered them and knocked them out both twice. Chavez would do the same to Floyd.

Joe Gans dubious career is more reason to pick even Benny Leonard and Roberto Duran over Gans. I still say Chavez over Gans in a fair fight

how will chavez beat duran?

mayweather had just as fast handspeed as taylor, plus sharper and better reflexes. mayweather is a better skilled ring technician than taylor, better defense and ring smarts, with just as much speed. chavez did not get through taylors speed. he lost the fight first of all if the ref waited 2 seconds more. taylor simply was dead tired and chose to slsug it out and got caught but still was in a way robbed. taylor basically beat chavez, i dont see why a better skilled, defense, ring smarts maywether cant do the same?

mayweather has enough snap in his punches to make chavez feel it, hes not like the feather fist whitaker.

look how much trouble chavez had with guys like whitaker and taylor??

mayweather is a mixture of both whitakers defense and taylors speed. he presents horrible style matchup for chavez.

Aftermath · Post by **Aftermath** » 06 Dec 2005, 16:27

Chavez would have the success and much more that Jose Luis Castillo had against Mayweather. At 140 Chavez could handle power and speed. While Chavez left the Hilton on the shoulders of his handlers headed for the history books and the Hall of Fame, Taylor was carried out on a stretcher and taken to a hospital where he was suffering from broken facial bones, loss of two pints of blood and urinating and vomiting pure blood. Roger threw his hardest shots but was forced to resign twice against Chavez.

JC Superstar would do the same to Floyd.

theone · Post by **theone** » 06 Dec 2005, 20:44

The only men to beat Cervantes in 21 world title fights were Nicholino Loche, Wilfredo Benitez and Arron Pryor.... all three of whom are all time greats in their own right and would have beaten Chavez quite handily.

Beaten Chavez quite handily? Chavez would have been the most complete fighter any of those three had ever faced. Cervantes and Loche would have been devasted by Chavez relentless but surgical attack. Although I dont agree, I can respect anyones opinion that Pryor or Benitez would beat him, but beat him quite handidly? Redicules.

joe gans is a lightweight, but if ur talking a fight between him and chavez at lightweight, gans would school chavez.

Gans would have been destroyed. Turn of the century fighters were nowhere near as good as fighters of today. dont believe the hype.

chavez did not match up well vs defensive or speedy fighters. gans had a big mixture of both that would present a horrible style matchup for chavez.

magine a pernell whitaker with more power and more speed and you got joe gans. HOW IN THE WORLD IS CHAVEZ GOING TO BEAT THAT?

Both Pernell Whitaker and Chavez were several levels above Gans.

how will chavez beat duran?

Maybe he would maybe he wouldnt. They both had the skill to beat each other. Why is the thought of Chavez beating Duran so far fetched?

Chavez would have the success and much more that Jose Luis Castillo had against Mayweather.

Agreed. Also Mayweather doesnt throw punches like Taylor did at 140. Mayweather may have more power, but he did not throw as many punches in such quick succession as Taylor. This is what troubled Chavez. Mayweather would be there to hit, and does not have the arsenal to keep Chavez off of him all night. mayweather is good enough to finish on his feet but i see him losing a clear cut decision.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 06 Dec 2005, 20:46

Gans would have been destroyed. Turn of the century fighters were nowhere near as good as fighters of today. dont believe the hype.

what in the world makes u say this??

- ur too caught up on modern fighters

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 06 Dec 2005, 20:51

not that there is anything wrong with that

theone · Post by **theone** » 06 Dec 2005, 20:53

mayweather has enough snap in his punches to make chavez feel it, hes not like the feather fist whitaker.

You dont know what you're talking about. Whitaker did not have one punch ko power, nor did his style lend itself to alot of ko's, but the man was not feather fisted. If you know anything about him or have watched alot of his fights you would know that Whitaker, when he needed to, could punch with athourity. He halted alot of larger stronger solid chinned opponents with a potent straight left hand. He also threw hard punches to the body.

look how much trouble chavez had with guys like whitaker and taylor??
mayweather is a mixture of both whitakers defense and taylors speed. he presents horrible style matchup for chavez.

Mayweather has no where need the speed of Taylor. Especially at Jr. Welter. To say he possesses Whitaker's defense is a gross overstatement.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 06 Dec 2005, 20:59

he doesnt have as much defense as whitaker, but hes certainly is close to it, and add the incredible handspeed and u have two huge attributes which chavez did not match up well against

theone · Post by **theone** » 06 Dec 2005, 20:59

what in the world makes u say this??

- ur too caught up on modern fighters

and you're to bogged down in the past. When I speak of modern fighters at least for the most part its an eyewitness account. What was the best preformance you've ever witnessed from Gans? Or even on video?

theone · Post by **theone** » 06 Dec 2005, 21:05

he doesnt have as much defense as whitaker, but hes certainly is close to it,

When has he displayed this near Whitaker like defense at 140 exactly?

nd add the incredible handspeed and u have two huge attributes which chavez did not match up well against

And when did this cost prime Chavez a fight at 140?

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 07 Dec 2005, 06:57

theone wrote:
what in the world makes u say this??

- ur too caught up on modern fighters
and you're to bogged down in the past. When I speak of modern fighters at least for the most part its an eyewitness account. What was the best preformance you've ever witnessed from Gans? Or even on video?

Just because you may not have seen Gans boxing in the flesh doesn't make him a lesser fighter than todays crowd... that is just silly. There is plenty eye witness accounts and fight reports on Gans, not to mentione his record itself, to show the mans greatness.... and there is also a fair bit of film of him fighting as well if you tale the trouble to look for it.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 07 Dec 2005, 06:58

Gans would be far too skillful fpr Chavez and would outbox him clearly and with not much trouble I think...

theone · Post by **theone** » 07 Dec 2005, 07:58

There is plenty eye witness accounts and fight reports on Gans,

How reliable are theses eye witness accounts? They are judging only by what they know. Gans was the best of his times and there was much less to judge him by in those days.

and there is also a fair bit of film of him fighting as well if you tale the trouble to look for it.

Ive seen em. Not at all impressed. Even taking into account the crappy quality of the footage, Gans looks crude and lacking the finesse of later fighters.

Gans would be far too skillful fpr Chavez and would outbox him clearly and with not much trouble I think...

This is absurd. No fighter in history would have beat Chavez without much trouble. Chavez and alot of other comtempary fighters who have boxed Gans silly.

Grimm · Post by **Grimm** » 08 Dec 2005, 08:31

Decagon wrote:
BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:Joe Gans also had a lot of speed and incredible footwork. Jack Johnson said of gan "Joe moved around like he was on wheels."
Jack Johnson also said that he took a dive against Jess Willard, and that he was brushing Stanley Ketchell's teeth out of his glove after thier fight, despite the fact that he knocked Ketchell out with his right hand and was brushing his left hand.

I thought it was a left then a right.

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 08 Dec 2005, 10:15

theone wrote: How reliable are theses eye witness accounts? They are judging only by what they know. Gans was the best of his times and there was much less to judge him by in those days.

Much less what during his times? There were more boxers, more gyms, more trainers, more fight fans, and more press coverage of boxing 100 years ago than there are now. So what what exactly was there less of during Gans time?

theone · Post by **theone** » 10 Dec 2005, 09:13

Much less what during his times? There were more boxers, more gyms, more trainers, more fight fans, and more press coverage of boxing 100 years ago than there are now. So what what exactly was there less of during Gans time?

Great fighters to compare him to. He was the best boxer folks of his day had seen, but of coarse they hadnt seen Benny Leonard, willie Pep or Whitaker.
Eyewitnesses from the turn of the century are the least reliable source to use when considering head to head compitions. In fact, turn of the century fighters shouldnt even come up on those topics. Not enough info on them and too much bullshit and exaggeration has been added to their legend.

Grimm · Post by **Grimm** » 10 Dec 2005, 12:45

Decagon wrote:
silkov wrote:Just because you may not have seen Gans boxing in the flesh doesn't make him a lesser fighter than todays crowd... that is just silly. There is plenty eye witness accounts and fight reports on Gans, not to mentione his record itself, to show the mans greatness.... and there is also a fair bit of film of him fighting as well if you tale the trouble to look for it.
What he's saying is that the proof that fighters from 100 years ago were as good as the fighters today is lacking. You can't really compare fighters who might go 6 rounds one day and 40 rounds the next to fighters who specialized in 12- and 15-round fights. Take Jack Dempsey or Joe Louis. They fought hard in every round because they knew the fight wouldn't go on for two hours. When Sam Langford or Jack Johnson got into the ring for a 40-round fight, they had to conserve their energy.

Most papers that I've read say that Langford came out fast and finished fast but never the less I see what your saying.

Martin Sosa Cameron · Post by **Martin Sosa Cameron** » 12 Dec 2005, 06:22

Dear friends:
some boys had a good sense of humor; Chávez was a great, great fighter, but he never could win over Joe Gans

Aftermath · Post by **Aftermath** » 12 Dec 2005, 14:06

Julio Cesar Chavez would have beaten Gans. There’s more than enough evidence to prove that.

Martin Sosa Cameron · Post by **Martin Sosa Cameron** » 12 Dec 2005, 19:32

In this moment, may be, because Joe Gans had 130 years old or more, while Julio César Chávez still beeing a young boy, a big handicap