columbo wrote:It wasnt that effective in hindsight though as it was Groves left laying stretched on the canvas with his leg bent underneath him.
Though if they hadn't done it would Groves have been as effective in the first bout, Froch was very unsettled, upset and angry - that affected how he fought.
The constant needling ensured a rematch which was won with one pulverising punch, Groves didn't take a prolonged beating - Groves earned nearly 2 million quid.
columbo wrote:It wasnt that effective in hindsight though as it was Groves left laying stretched on the canvas with his leg bent underneath him.
Though if they hadn't done it would Groves have been as effective in the first bout, Froch was very unsettled, upset and angry - that affected how he fought.
The constant needling ensured a rematch which was won with one pulverising punch, Groves didn't take a prolonged beating - Groves earned nearly 2 million quid.
I'd say it was pretty effective
Yeah but Froch also thought before the first fight that the first time he hit Groves that would be the end of the fight. Aside from being wound up by him he clearly underestimated him.
columbo wrote:It wasnt that effective in hindsight though as it was Groves left laying stretched on the canvas with his leg bent underneath him.
Though if they hadn't done it would Groves have been as effective in the first bout, Froch was very unsettled, upset and angry - that affected how he fought.
The constant needling ensured a rematch which was won with one pulverising punch, Groves didn't take a prolonged beating - Groves earned nearly 2 million quid.
I'd say it was pretty effective
Yeah but Froch also thought before the first fight that the first time he hit Groves that would be the end of the fight. Aside from being wound up by him he clearly underestimated him.
I see your point and would say that it wasn't the underestimation of Groves that 'made' him seek a sports psychologist for the first time. i don't want to labour the point and Froch places Groves under the opposition of Pascal, Abraham, Taylor, Kessler and Ward and he didn't seek psychological advice before or after facing them so I'd say the verbal digs and 'attacks' were effective.
palooka wrote:
Though if they hadn't done it would Groves have been as effective in the first bout, Froch was very unsettled, upset and angry - that affected how he fought.
The constant needling ensured a rematch which was won with one pulverising punch, Groves didn't take a prolonged beating - Groves earned nearly 2 million quid.
I'd say it was pretty effective
Yeah but Froch also thought before the first fight that the first time he hit Groves that would be the end of the fight. Aside from being wound up by him he clearly underestimated him.
I see your point and would say that it wasn't the underestimation of Groves that 'made' him seek a sports psychologist for the first time. i don't want to labour the point and Froch places Groves under the opposition of Pascal, Abraham, Taylor, Kessler and Ward and he didn't seek psychological advice before or after facing them so I'd say the verbal digs and 'attacks' were effective.
Of course they were effective to an extent but in terms of the final result they ended up meaning nothing.
There were 2 bouts with 2 different endings, I'd imagine that if Groves had sat there prior to the first bout and played the 'happy to be there' fellow who looked forward to sharing the ring with the great Carl Froch then he'd have been chased around of the ring and knocked out. The verbals upset Froch to the extent he was distracted and fought emotionally which played into Grove's hands.
Result - the 'mind games' paid off.
The 2nd bout Froch did not engage with Groves and boxed to his strengths and scored a fantastic knockout.
Result - the mind games were ignored and Froch beat Groves.
palooka wrote:There were 2 bouts with 2 different endings, I'd imagine that if Groves had sat there prior to the first bout and played the 'happy to be there' fellow who looked forward to sharing the ring with the great Carl Froch then he'd have been chased around of the ring and knocked out. The verbals upset Froch to the extent he was distracted and fought emotionally which played into Grove's hands.
Result - the 'mind games' paid off.
The 2nd bout Froch did not engage with Groves and boxed to his strengths and scored a fantastic knockout.
Result - the mind games were ignored and Froch beat Groves.
Surely that's a bit of a contradiction though? If Froch fought on emotion in the first fight which he did he would of been chasing George around the ring in the first fight in an attempt to knock him out?
Froch is now saying that he does not want to fight his mandatory James DeGale, because Degale has not earned his stripes yet to fight someone like him, ring a bell anyone ? The only thing he has missed out this time is the " International superstar " bit. Let the games begin.
Anzi wrote:Froch is now saying that he does not want to fight his mandatory James DeGale, because Degale has not earned his stripes yet to fight someone like him, ring a bell anyone ? The only thing he has missed out this time is the " International superstar " bit. Let the games begin.
He should just say he doesn't want to fight him because it doesn't fit in with his Vegas ambition.
palooka wrote:There were 2 bouts with 2 different endings, I'd imagine that if Groves had sat there prior to the first bout and played the 'happy to be there' fellow who looked forward to sharing the ring with the great Carl Froch then he'd have been chased around of the ring and knocked out. The verbals upset Froch to the extent he was distracted and fought emotionally which played into Grove's hands.
Result - the 'mind games' paid off.
The 2nd bout Froch did not engage with Groves and boxed to his strengths and scored a fantastic knockout.
Result - the mind games were ignored and Froch beat Groves.
Surely that's a bit of a contradiction though? If Froch fought on emotion in the first fight which he did he would of been chasing George around the ring in the first fight in an attempt to knock him out?
I don't think it's a contradiction - Froch was very sure of how the bout would go because he had knocked Groves over in sparring and Anderson had also dropped him. It was Groves asking questions about Frochs pronouncements and picking up on contradictions that upset Froch so much - he said he couldn't believe how disrespectful and silly Groves was being. Groves hadn't said that much but he had questioned things that were personal 'mantras' of Froch - 'warrior', 'superstar', etc.
I think if he'd have been meek and mild and accepted 2nd billing then Froch would have run him over. Groves put seeds of doubt there and angered him. Other boxers who had faced Froch before had paid credit to him and he to them - he was used to mutual respect, regardless of whether it was genuine.
Anzi wrote:Froch is now saying that he does not want to fight his mandatory James DeGale, because Degale has not earned his stripes yet to fight someone like him, ring a bell anyone ? The only thing he has missed out this time is the " International superstar " bit. Let the games begin.
He should just say he doesn't want to fight him because it doesn't fit in with his Vegas ambition.
Don't think he would have any complaints.
He wouldn't from me, I think he has earned the right to box who he wants. To face DeGale would mean a big pay cut surely and he would pose very different questions than Chavez Jnr.
Anzi wrote:Froch is now saying that he does not want to fight his mandatory James DeGale, because Degale has not earned his stripes yet to fight someone like him, ring a bell anyone ? The only thing he has missed out this time is the " International superstar " bit. Let the games begin.
He should just say he doesn't want to fight him because it doesn't fit in with his Vegas ambition.
Don't think he would have any complaints.
He wouldn't from me, I think he has earned the right to box who he wants. To face DeGale would mean a big pay cut surely and he would pose very different questions than Chavez Jnr.
Exactly. For the record I think he still beats DeGale, but DeGale v Groves and Froch v Chavez excite me far more.
DMA1987 wrote:
He should just say he doesn't want to fight him because it doesn't fit in with his Vegas ambition.
Don't think he would have any complaints.
He wouldn't from me, I think he has earned the right to box who he wants. To face DeGale would mean a big pay cut surely and he would pose very different questions than Chavez Jnr.
Exactly. For the record I think he still beats DeGale, but DeGale v Groves and Froch v Chavez excite me far more.
I think they could do Degale-Groves at Wembley or somewhere similar aswell. The needle for the rematch would be brilliant.
stujones wrote:How has DeGale not earned his stripes, but JCC has?
He earned his stripes at the box office, while DeGale was fighting in shopping centres.
Froch has just done the big domestic fight, twice. Does he really want to do it again? DeGale may be mandatory but the biggest name on his record is Groves, who he lost to both as an amateur and a pro. So can anybody blame Froch for wanting to do something different this time? He has certainly earned that right.
Chavez in Vegas would be great as it would be a fun fight - more enjoyable for the fans and likely more action than a DeGale fight. Two strong iron chinned fan friendly come forward fighters, what's not to like?
Absolutely agree John, but why not say it as it is. Love his explanation for now Ward (who he has called out all the time) is out of the equation.
This has nothing to do with who deserves the shot or who is the better fighter, this is about who can make Froch the most money and fulfil the Vegas dream.... fair enough, but say it as it is then.
columbo wrote:I think it's a bit fucked up that he's got another mandatory when he's had two back to back.
He can take a voluntary in between, but he has to fight Degale afterwards, if he still has the belt i.e Porter, who fought Malinaggi first, before Brook.
stujones wrote:How has DeGale not earned his stripes, but JCC has?
He earned his stripes at the box office, while DeGale was fighting in shopping centres.
Froch has just done the big domestic fight, twice. Does he really want to do it again? DeGale may be mandatory but the biggest name on his record is Groves, who he lost to both as an amateur and a pro. So can anybody blame Froch for wanting to do something different this time? He has certainly earned that right.
Chavez in Vegas would be great as it would be a fun fight - more enjoyable for the fans and likely more action than a DeGale fight. Two strong iron chinned fan friendly come forward fighters, what's not to like?
I Agree Froch/Chavez would be a matchmakers dream, but for me Degale is more of a threat to Froch, then Groves was, I think Froch knows that, if I was Froch I would fight some of the bigger names in the states, more nearer his age, then the young hungry fighters coming up.
Ffs Froch being a penis again I see..so much for chivalry after the event like all the newspaper boys were trying to make out.
'but he doesn't hit any harder than any of the other top 10 fighters I've boxed like Pascal or Taylor or Kessler or Abraham. Nowhere near as hard. They all hit hard but he's not a massive, concussive puncher.'
'Nowhere as hard' That's funny because he floored him hard in 1 fecking round and almost ktfo him in the first fight and left him looking like he'd being in a car crash. Has he ever being in that state all his career?
Final round wrote:Ffs Froch being a penis again I see..so much for chivalry after the event like all the newspaper boys were trying to make out.
'but he doesn't hit any harder than any of the other top 10 fighters I've boxed like Pascal or Taylor or Kessler or Abraham. Nowhere near as hard. They all hit hard but he's not a massive, concussive puncher.'
'Nowhere as hard' That's funny because he floored him hard in 1 fecking round and almost ktfo him in the first fight and left him looking like he'd being in a car crash. Has he ever being in that state all his career?
I thought Groves face looked worse after the first fight.
Froch and Groves are as bad as each other, but as long as they don't start taking promo tips from Adrien Broner, I don't think either should be criticised too much, it would be pretty dull if fighters stayed polite all the time.
stujones wrote:Absolutely agree John, but why not say it as it is. Love his explanation for now Ward (who he has called out all the time) is out of the equation.
This has nothing to do with who deserves the shot or who is the better fighter, this is about who can make Froch the most money and fulfil the Vegas dream.... fair enough, but say it as it is then.
Froch needs to keep his options open. If he says Chavez in Vegas is the only fight he wants, then that gives Chavez a good start in any negotiations. I would expect him to be cagey as to who his next opponent will be until they sign something. I doubt Eddie will want Froch to say no to DeGale until he has a Plan B on standby for DeGale. You could tell from his post fight interview his attitude towards Matchroom was put up or shut up.
