Toney and Rahman brawl in Cancun

josh fg · Post by **josh fg** » 20 Dec 2005, 21:26

YOu have to like jame toney are there any quotes from the argument?? I think tony will win because he is just a more intellegent fighter, however I don't think Rahman can be disscounted and Toney doesn't have the same kind of punches of Lewis and Tua and will thus have to put together some special combos to KO him.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 21 Dec 2005, 05:35

Doubt it, he doesn't seem to get discouraged. Toney won't have the punching authority to make him back off. Peter didn't get deterred by Wlad jabbing his head off.

The other problem for Toney, is that he isn't a mover any more, his legs aren't really up to it, and against Peter, standing right in front of him is a risk. If Peter lands a bomb, Toney will definetly get hurt.

TerribleTerry · Post by **TerribleTerry** » 21 Dec 2005, 06:13

Peter would stand a chance of out muscling and brawling Toney but remmeber, long before Toney was even officially a heavyweight he was bashing up WBO Champ Lamon Brewster in sparring in LA.

I think Rahman is made for Lights Out - James will have the big lump second guessing himself within a couple of rnds and will beat a very beatable heavy. Rahman flatters to deceive, whilst Toney is a deceiving fatman.

C'mon Toney!!

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 21 Dec 2005, 06:17

If Peter can;t knock him though he'd start hitting him in the back of the head like with Sykes and Wlad.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 21 Dec 2005, 06:34

TerribleTerry wrote:Peter would stand a chance of out muscling and brawling Toney but remmeber, long before Toney was even officially a heavyweight he was bashing up WBO Champ Lamon Brewster in sparring in LA.

I think Rahman is made for Lights Out - James will have the big lump second guessing himself within a couple of rnds and will beat a very beatable heavy. Rahman flatters to deceive, whilst Toney is a deceiving fatman.

C'mon Toney!!

there's always an outside chance of Rahman coming in in shape.

I know Toney has been sparring with heavyweights for years now, but that's not quite the same as a real fight.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 21 Dec 2005, 06:35

http://lightsout10.tripod.com/toney_200 ... -Card1.jpg

Man I love this card from this site.

http://lightsout10.tripod.com/

Too bad Maskaev won't win a title.

Razor · Post by **Razor** » 21 Dec 2005, 11:18

Before the deep fat frier was invented...

http://lightsout10.tripod.com/toneyautograph2.jpg

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 21 Dec 2005, 11:49

I think Toney outclasses a guy like Rahman, who loses concentration doesn't throw enough shots. Toney's shoulder movement is still outstanding and he still sneaks clever counters. I wish he'd come in below 220-lbs. well, he's got till March...

Toney seems to like fighting heavies. bigger, slower guys, bigger openings, more opportunities to counter etc. john arthur informed me a whie back that Toney schooled Riddick Bowe, in '93, just before JT fought Tony Thornton at s/m.

he also humiliated Mount Whitaker, a few years back. before Jirov, I think. don't know exactly what happened, but MW refused to spar with him ever again. of course, it's different in the ring, but JT does seem to like feasting on bigger men.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 21 Dec 2005, 11:59

Toney has a huge advantage in skill levels, handspeed and workrate over most of the guys around now.

At 5' 10 and 215-220, he's about the same size as Frazier was in his prime, if a little shorter. Ok, he doesn't have the power of Frazier, but he also gets hit a fornicate of a lot less.

Too much is made of the size of modern heavyweights, If Ali was on the scene now, I'd bet my bottom dollar he would clout the living shit out of anyone in the division with ease.

Power is no good if you throw fornicate all shots, and if you cannot avoid being hit. Look at a young George Foreman, he might have been thought of as slow, but only relatively speaking, he cut the ring off brilliantly, and he threw huge, accurate and unrelenting bombs, his stamina compared to modern heavyweights was vast.

No matter how fat Toney is, he seems to have better stamina that most other modern heavyweights out there, or certainly throws more shots.

TerribleTerry · Post by **TerribleTerry** » 21 Dec 2005, 13:29

jamesmcdonnell wrote: No matter how fat Toney is, he seems to have better stamina that most other modern heavyweights out there, or certainly throws more shots.

He wastes nothing, and is totally relaxed in the ring. This aides his fitness and stops him getting tired.

When LL and the Klits were in the ascendancy I thought we were moving into a new era of super sized heavies, but guys like Toney make me realise that bigger is far from always better.

bigynzing · Post by **bigynzing** » 21 Dec 2005, 22:10

You cant but help love the guy.....

Toney and Floyd are a joy to watch....truly old school.....when you look through the divisions now...there`s no-one apart from JT and PBF who has that cheeky style.....almost brings a tear to the eye...

josh fg · Post by **josh fg** » 22 Dec 2005, 01:23

bigynzing wrote:You cant but help love the guy.....

Toney and Floyd are a joy to watch....truly old school.....when you look through the divisions now...there`s no-one apart from JT and PBF who has that cheeky style.....almost brings a tear to the eye...

Toney Old school you are not kidding the guy has had 76 fights and is still challenging for world titles 4 weights above his original weight. wonder if he can top 80 befor he retires

Out of interest did Toney have much of an ametre record?

TerribleTerry · Post by **TerribleTerry** » 22 Dec 2005, 04:40

josh fg wrote:
bigynzing wrote:You cant but help love the guy.....

Toney and Floyd are a joy to watch....truly old school.....when you look through the divisions now...there`s no-one apart from JT and PBF who has that cheeky style.....almost brings a tear to the eye...
Toney Old school you are not kidding the guy has had 76 fights and is still challenging for world titles 4 weights above his original weight. wonder if he can top 80 befor he retires

Out of interest did Toney have much of an ametre record?

If I remember correctly I think he had only 20 or so amateur fights and was a high school quaterback. He did his learning in the pro ring under the tutelage of Bill Miller.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 22 Dec 2005, 08:01

Fantastic post, couldn't have put it better myself.

As Toney himself said before the Holyfield fight, 'This ain't a Mr Universe contest, I'm going to whup Evander's ass.'

He was as good as his word, and although Vander was far gone, I never saw anyone take him apart as clinically as Toney did...

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 22 Dec 2005, 08:20

Brewster has a bit of Devil in him, but not the skills, Toney v Brewster would make for a good heavyweight fight. Brewster has the power and the devil to make it a fight.

TerribleTerry · Post by **TerribleTerry** » 22 Dec 2005, 08:20

Watching the 5'9" pudgy Toney school that 7' lumbering hulk is a fantasy fight I would love to see come off.

The big guy's German connections are no fools - I doubt Toney will ever be let near him. Shame cause it would be a clinic. Boxing 101

TerribleTerry · Post by **TerribleTerry** » 22 Dec 2005, 08:22

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Brewster has a bit of Devil in him, but not the skills, Toney v Brewster would make for a good heavyweight fight. Brewster has the power and the devil to make it a fight.

Toney already owns Brewster mentally following their gym sessions, I am led to believe.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 22 Dec 2005, 08:28

Well, hang on, King has options on him, and they all know he ain't going to be champ for long, and with his boring as fornicate style, he won't be popular for long either.

I can see Toney or Brewster ending up as undisputed champ. King wants a marketable heavyweight, but the problem is, how many fights has Toney got left, he's getting more and more injury prone...he's not a sound investment.

Lennox Lewis would have hammered Toney into the ground like a tent peg, good at blocking as Toney was, that jab would have knocked him around the ring like a fat bowling pin.

TerribleTerry · Post by **TerribleTerry** » 22 Dec 2005, 08:32

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Well, hang on, King has options on him, and they all know he ain't going to be champ for long, and with his boring as fornicate style, he won't be popular for long either.

I can see Toney or Brewster ending up as undisputed champ. King wants a marketable heavyweight, but the problem is, how many fights has Toney got left, he's getting more and more injury prone...he's not a sound investment.

Lennox Lewis would have hammered Toney into the ground like a tent peg, good at blocking as Toney was, that jab would have knocked him around the ring like a fat bowling pin.

Lewis is the perfect antidote to Toney's 'shake n bake, slip n slid' heavweight style. Undoubtedly Lennox's power jab, size and mobility would have done for Toney.

Still, Toney could bash the granny out of that freak Valuev, no worries.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 22 Dec 2005, 09:15

Don't think Toney would beat Vitali. Vitali is pretty good at utilising his advantages and takes a damned good shot too. He is also very busy for a modern heavyweight, look how many punches he threw against Williams, he just never stopped hitting him. That's exactly what you need to do with Toney, keep him under pressure.

I'd like to see the two of them fight, but if they do, I expect Vitali to win surprisngly easily.

TerribleTerry · Post by **TerribleTerry** » 22 Dec 2005, 09:21

Terence wrote:I don't know as watching the fight again recently VK was blowing hard and looked stunned by a few left-hooks. Toney builds everything off the jab and VK just drapes his there as a range finder, he also tends to advertise his right-hand. I feel that he is not a quitter as such but does not like it up him, Toney would give him hell IMO and take him out late or bust him up. He'd see the VK shots coming. VK looks terrified when he is hit, Sanders had him boxing conservatively and Sanders was falsely puffed-up by the press after Wlad win.

Win, lose or draw it would catch fire and light the public imagination.

It would be a hell of a fight and a great spectacle all round. I can just see a snarling Toney being held back from attacking Vitali or his brother Wlad at the press conference...I am sure that this fight is King's ultimate plan..

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 22 Dec 2005, 09:21

Hopefully we will find out...I just hope Toney doesn't lose to Rahman, that would really piss on my chips.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 22 Dec 2005, 09:26

I wouldn't be that surprised to see Rahman pull the upset here.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 22 Dec 2005, 09:35

It's a big opportunity for Rahman, if he comes in in good shape, I think he has a good shot, him and Toney seem to really have the needle with eachother, and Rahman is a big puncher and an excellent jabber. His power could be the factor.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 22 Dec 2005, 09:44

Thing is, a smaller guy can outjab a bigger one by getting close enough where the big guy can't get full extension, Mercer did it to Lennox, and that is why Lewis found it such a hard fight.

Rahman did the same thing in spurts in the first fight with Lewis, but in truth was getting taken apart when he found that big shot as Lewis panicked.