Froch on sky

[TheCobra]

What does whether Ward was better than Tzsyu matter?

And who he won what from is irrelevant, the question was who achieved more, and the answer is undoubtedly Hatton.

Strong words. I think the respective records say it's very close.

[SNG]

What does whether Ward was better than Tzsyu matter?

And who he won what from is irrelevant, the question was who achieved more, and the answer is undoubtedly Hatton.

Strong words. I think the respective records say it's very close.

Not really. Both three time world champions, and Hatton is a two weight world champion. I think most people can count.

[lefty]

Do you know, I never think of that WBU, I always think of his world title as the Tszyu fight and thought you questioning the legitimacy of that. The WBU was definitely a fake world title. I see what you mean.

But the two personalities couldn't be more different. Froch is Froch, his achievements don't mean he deserves the level of popularity Hatton has, and he'll never get it because he's too combative all the time. You can say he won this, did that and his in ring career deserves nothing but the upmost respect, but that's only half of it, it's always been that way too.

As for who achieved more, probably an unpopular choice and I imagine I'll get slated but I think Hatton. Three time world champion in two weight classes, was the top 140lber, Froch has never been number one and probably never will be and he isn't going to LHW anytime soon.

I'm not sure myself. Was a 35 yr old Tszyu better than a prime Ward? Hatton won his welterweight title against Collazo who is hardly elite and then if you look at the opponents Hatton fought after Tszyu it's ..... Maussa (one of the crudest boxers i've ever watched) ,Collazo, Urango, Castillo (who was well past his best) and then Mayweather. Are they better than the likes of Bute, Kessler,Pascal, Abraham, etc?

What does whether Ward was better than Tzsyu matter?

And who he won what from is irrelevant, the question was who achieved more, and the answer is undoubtedly Hatton.

well it matters in regards to his ability to becoming no1 in his division. That's quite important. Regarding who's achieved more, using that argument then i'm guessing Adrien Broner is a more accomplished fighter than Froch aswell seeing he's won world titles in 3 weight classes. You could argue he's more accomplished than Hatton! ;;-)

[lillywhite14]

Froch has beat a better calibre of fighter than Hatton did but can be argued that Hatton's win over Tszyu eclipses Froch's best win.

One thing Froch doesn't have is the complete and utter destruction by Manny that Hatton endured.

Can be argued Ward was of a similar level to Floyd when he fought Hatton.

Its a good argument as to who achieved more. ( unless of course you count huge overseas support as an in ring achievement etc )

Hatton was a beast at 140. He should have stayed there. Made Floyd come to him.

[TheCobra]

What does whether Ward was better than Tzsyu matter?

And who he won what from is irrelevant, the question was who achieved more, and the answer is undoubtedly Hatton.

Strong words. I think the respective records say it's very close.

Not really. Both three time world champions, and Hatton is a two weight world champion. I think most people can count.

Haha, wasn't expecting that response. Bit idiotic that mate.

[black panther]

Froch doesn't come across that well on tv. Probably a sound enough bloke in person but on TV: an arrogant so and so.

That said, he's a frickin' boxer not a politician. In the ring you couldn't ask for more of a boxer and he'll fight anyone. I mean his list of opponents for his last 12 fights is ridiculous - 6 years of back to back genuine world class opposition. The only relatively "soft touch" in there was Yusaf Mack; but he's actually a very decent fighter who gave a then undefeated Tavouris Cloud a tough fight. He could also really crack.

Never mind Britain, name me one current champion world wide whose had a tougher run of fights in that time frame. In this world of multiple world champions and belts, where champions have 3 or more gimme fights for every real challenge, Froch has been a breath of fresh air. You can argue he had to do it this way because he wasn’t a big draw or whatever but the facts are he did it. The man’s a boxing hero in my book and even if tomorrow he slapped me and called me a host of expletives, that opinion wouldn’t change.

[lillywhite14]

Froch doesn't come across that well on tv. Probably a sound enough bloke in person but on TV: an arrogant so and so.

That said, he's a frickin' boxer not a politician. In the ring you couldn't ask for more of a boxer and he'll fight anyone. I mean his list of opponents for his last 12 fights is ridiculous - 6 years of back to back genuine world class opposition. The only relatively "soft touch" in there was Yusaf Mack; but he's actually a very decent fighter who gave a then undefeated Tavouris Cloud a tough fight. He could also really crack.

Never mind Britain, name me one current champion world wide whose had a tougher run of fights in that time frame. In this world of multiple world champions and belts, where champions have 3 or more gimme fights for every real challenge, Froch has been a breath of fresh air. You can argue he had to do it this way because he wasn’t a big draw or whatever but the facts are he did it. The man’s a boxing hero in my book and even if tomorrow he slapped me and called me a host of expletives, that opinion wouldn’t change.

Once he retires the landscape of British boxing will change. For the worse

Give it five years and people will start saying 'actually what Froch did was pretty effing amazing'

As you point out, modern day champions on the whole have three gimmes before facing a real challenge, its even more highlighted after a defeat. Who did Froch fight after his two losses?
Arthur Abraham and Lucien Bute. Says it all. No soft touch, ease you way back in to it gimmes.

[danamba7]

Froch doesn't come across that well on tv. Probably a sound enough bloke in person but on TV: an arrogant so and so.

That said, he's a frickin' boxer not a politician. In the ring you couldn't ask for more of a boxer and he'll fight anyone. I mean his list of opponents for his last 12 fights is ridiculous - 6 years of back to back genuine world class opposition. The only relatively "soft touch" in there was Yusaf Mack; but he's actually a very decent fighter who gave a then undefeated Tavouris Cloud a tough fight. He could also really crack.

Never mind Britain, name me one current champion world wide whose had a tougher run of fights in that time frame. In this world of multiple world champions and belts, where champions have 3 or more gimme fights for every real challenge, Froch has been a breath of fresh air. You can argue he had to do it this way because he wasn’t a big draw or whatever but the facts are he did it. The man’s a boxing hero in my book and even if tomorrow he slapped me and called me a host of expletives, that opinion wouldn’t change.

100% agree

[palooka]

Froch doesn't come across that well on tv. Probably a sound enough bloke in person but on TV: an arrogant so and so.

That said, he's a frickin' boxer not a politician. In the ring you couldn't ask for more of a boxer and he'll fight anyone. I mean his list of opponents for his last 12 fights is ridiculous - 6 years of back to back genuine world class opposition. The only relatively "soft touch" in there was Yusaf Mack; but he's actually a very decent fighter who gave a then undefeated Tavouris Cloud a tough fight. He could also really crack.

Never mind Britain, name me one current champion world wide whose had a tougher run of fights in that time frame. In this world of multiple world champions and belts, where champions have 3 or more gimme fights for every real challenge, Froch has been a breath of fresh air. You can argue he had to do it this way because he wasn’t a big draw or whatever but the facts are he did it. The man’s a boxing hero in my book and even if tomorrow he slapped me and called me a host of expletives, that opinion wouldn’t change.

Have to say I agree.

[TheCobra]

Froch doesn't come across that well on tv. Probably a sound enough bloke in person but on TV: an arrogant so and so.

That said, he's a frickin' boxer not a politician. In the ring you couldn't ask for more of a boxer and he'll fight anyone. I mean his list of opponents for his last 12 fights is ridiculous - 6 years of back to back genuine world class opposition. The only relatively "soft touch" in there was Yusaf Mack; but he's actually a very decent fighter who gave a then undefeated Tavouris Cloud a tough fight. He could also really crack.

Never mind Britain, name me one current champion world wide whose had a tougher run of fights in that time frame. In this world of multiple world champions and belts, where champions have 3 or more gimme fights for every real challenge, Froch has been a breath of fresh air. You can argue he had to do it this way because he wasn’t a big draw or whatever but the facts are he did it. The man’s a boxing hero in my book and even if tomorrow he slapped me and called me a host of expletives, that opinion wouldn’t change.

Spot on.

[crusader]

I didn't hear his commentary, although I'm unsurprised that several posters found him arrogant.

I find his personality quite unlikeable and when it comes to that assessment I don't care about his boxing ability, what he's proven in the ring, or how much his performances and willingness to fight top opposition will be missed. Likewise, I don't think an assessment of him as a boxer should be influenced by how he carries himself generally.

[SNG]

Not really. Both three time world champions, and Hatton is a two weight world champion. I think most people can count.

Haha, wasn't expecting that response. Bit idiotic that mate.

How is it idiotic? Hatton has fought and beat the man, won three world titles in two different divisions, fought the two best fighters on the planet, regardless of weight. Froch hasn't done as much, he's done a lot, but he hasn't done all of that. Sorry.

As for Ward being comparable to Mayweather? Aye, okay.

[dbf]

Froch doesn't come across that well on tv. Probably a sound enough bloke in person but on TV: an arrogant so and so.

That said, he's a frickin' boxer not a politician. In the ring you couldn't ask for more of a boxer and he'll fight anyone. I mean his list of opponents for his last 12 fights is ridiculous - 6 years of back to back genuine world class opposition. The only relatively "soft touch" in there was Yusaf Mack; but he's actually a very decent fighter who gave a then undefeated Tavouris Cloud a tough fight. He could also really crack.

Never mind Britain, name me one current champion world wide whose had a tougher run of fights in that time frame. In this world of multiple world champions and belts, where champions have 3 or more gimme fights for every real challenge, Froch has been a breath of fresh air. You can argue he had to do it this way because he wasn’t a big draw or whatever but the facts are he did it. The man’s a boxing hero in my book and even if tomorrow he slapped me and called me a host of expletives, that opinion wouldn’t change.

You'd have to say Pacquiao's run of fights are up there if not better and proven competition wise from '08 to now. ODLH, Hatton, Cotto, Margarito, Clottley, Marquez x2, Bradley x2, Rios - and he lost one, yes by KO but has bounced back to top level. Only gimme is clottely and p4p he's better than Mack.

[SNG]

Mayweather's record over the last 10/12 years is amazing too, a couple of soft fights and passed their best fighters but still a top notch record, over three weight classes too.

Pacquaio's must take it though.

Froch's record is unprecedented for a British fighter, I can't ever think of one who has taken on top challenges fight after fight, albeit some were not his choice. It's slightly disappointing not to see him chasing Ward for another shot at the division, but it's also understandable, Ward can't draw flies and doesn't engage, it'd sell terribly and he'd probably lose a similar decision to the last one.

[lillywhite14]

Not really. Both three time world champions, and Hatton is a two weight world champion. I think most people can count.

Haha, wasn't expecting that response. Bit idiotic that mate.

How is it idiotic? Hatton has fought and beat the man, won three world titles in two different divisions, fought the two best fighters on the planet, regardless of weight. Froch hasn't done as much, he's done a lot, but he hasn't done all of that. Sorry.

As for Ward being comparable to Mayweather? Aye, okay.

Ward isn't comparable to Mayweather? Before is recent "exile" lots of people had him down as p4p number 2 and the heir to Mayweather's "p4p throne"
Ward beats everyone in and around him, with relative ease. Kovalev, Stevenson, Golovkin, one them up and Ward, if fit, beats them all.
But of course, comparing his talents with those of Mayweather is ridiculous...

Froch's and Hatton's defeats to Ward and Mayweather respectively rank of a similar level. Mayweather was arguably a better fighter than Ward at the time but look at the fashion in which both lost. Hatton got outclassed, had his head bounced off a corner post and knocked out. Froch lost on points.
One thing Froch don't have on his record, and is extremely likely to ever have, is a complete and utter ass whooping which Ricky was handed by Pac.

Regarding the champion at two different weights. Does Hatton rank above Ali and Joe Louis? It means eff all in reality. Hatton moved up to earn big, big money against Floyd and possibly Cotto at the time. He targeted the weakest belt holder at 147 to give himself more leverage when it came to negotiating with those names.

I rank Hatton and Froch at a similar level. Hatton has the better win, and the best win by a British fighter of his generation, but Carl has more wins against better quality opposition. Both failed against the elite of the sport. Both are British boxing greats.

[lillywhite14]

Taylor, Abraham, Bute, Groves, Kessler, Dirrell > Urango, Collazo, Mallignaggi, Castillo, Maussa, Tackie

Tszyu > Pascal

[SNG]

Ward isn't comparable to Mayweather? Before is recent "exile" lots of people had him down as p4p number 2 and the heir to Mayweather's "p4p throne"
Ward beats everyone in and around him, with relative ease. Kovalev, Stevenson, Golovkin, one them up and Ward, if fit, beats them all.
But of course, comparing his talents with those of Mayweather is ridiculous...

Froch's and Hatton's defeats to Ward and Mayweather respectively rank of a similar level. Mayweather was arguably a better fighter than Ward at the time but look at the fashion in which both lost. Hatton got outclassed, had his head bounced off a corner post and knocked out. Froch lost on points.
One thing Froch don't have on his record, and is extremely likely to ever have, is a complete and utter ass whooping which Ricky was handed by Pac.

Regarding the champion at two different weights. Does Hatton rank above Ali and Joe Louis? It means eff all in reality. Hatton moved up to earn big, big money against Floyd and possibly Cotto at the time. He targeted the weakest belt holder at 147 to give himself more leverage when it came to negotiating with those names.

I rank Hatton and Froch at a similar level. Hatton has the better win, and the best win by a British fighter of his generation, but Carl has more wins against better quality opposition. Both failed against the elite of the sport. Both are British boxing greats.

But the question was about achievements. Hatton factually achieved more compared to what Froch has so far. Lww-WW is 7lbs, same as LHW, but we'll never see Froch make that jump.

Ward just isn't comparable to Mayweather, regardless of how people foolishly ranked him. Mayweather has been a proven top level fighter for ten years fitghting a list of fighters across several weight clases that Ward can only dream of, he has what? A win against Kessler and Froch and a weight drained Dawson? Yeah that's the same.

[SNG]

He didn't even want a piece of Lucian Bute after the super six FFS.

[lillywhite14]

Kessler and Froch were Ward's breakout wins. He should have moved on by now but hasn't made a gret deal of progress since then.
Ether way, Mayweather spanked Hatton. Ward beat Carl. Neither enhance the legacy of either man that much. I would say Ward's talent is comparable with the best in the business. Obviously something you don't agree with. I think he would stand both Kovalev and Stevenson on their heads.

The 7lbs thing is something I can't agree with, I'm sure Carl could move up and win a light heavy belt if he chose the correct route. Would he rank higher in your mind if he had foregone the rematch with Kessler and the Groves fights if he had decided to move up and spank someone like Cleverly? Not for me. Its quality which matters not moving through the weights. Mayweather and Manny are so highly thought of because they combined both ( most of the time anyway )

[SNG]

He doesn't stand anyone on their head.

You're still not understanding the conversation and I can't be arsed to keep going through this. It's about achievements. Beating groves achieved nothing, he was still a world champion like he was going in, I'm not dismissing the win don't misunderstand me, but it isn't an achievement like beating Cleverly for his WBO would have been. That's what we're talking about, I've already said Froch has fought better comp overall, and I disagree with Tszyu being touted as a better win than Kessler, I'd rate them almost equally in terms of ability and their relative decline, bit Hatton achieved more beating Tszyu. Do you see the difference?

[lillywhite14]

I understand that and agree beating Tszyu is the biggest achievement of either man. Just have to agree to disagree regarding the two weight champion thing. Makes little difference in my eyes. I just see quality. Kessler > Cleverly. Beating Kessler = bigger achievement to me. Obviously not to you. Sorted.

[domjon]

Ward isn't comparable to Mayweather? Before is recent "exile" lots of people had him down as p4p number 2 and the heir to Mayweather's "p4p throne"
Ward beats everyone in and around him, with relative ease. Kovalev, Stevenson, Golovkin, one them up and Ward, if fit, beats them all.
But of course, comparing his talents with those of Mayweather is ridiculous...

Froch's and Hatton's defeats to Ward and Mayweather respectively rank of a similar level. Mayweather was arguably a better fighter than Ward at the time but look at the fashion in which both lost. Hatton got outclassed, had his head bounced off a corner post and knocked out. Froch lost on points.
One thing Froch don't have on his record, and is extremely likely to ever have, is a complete and utter ass whooping which Ricky was handed by Pac.

Regarding the champion at two different weights. Does Hatton rank above Ali and Joe Louis? It means eff all in reality. Hatton moved up to earn big, big money against Floyd and possibly Cotto at the time. He targeted the weakest belt holder at 147 to give himself more leverage when it came to negotiating with those names.

I rank Hatton and Froch at a similar level. Hatton has the better win, and the best win by a British fighter of his generation, but Carl has more wins against better quality opposition. Both failed against the elite of the sport. Both are British boxing greats.

But the question was about achievements. Hatton factually achieved more compared to what Froch has so far. Lww-WW is 7lbs, same as LHW, but we'll never see Froch make that jump.

Ward just isn't comparable to Mayweather, regardless of how people foolishly ranked him. Mayweather has been a proven top level fighter for ten years fitghting a list of fighters across several weight clases that Ward can only dream of, he has what? A win against Kessler and Froch and a weight drained Dawson? Yeah that's the same.

So Froch loses's credence for not being a weight cutter?

[lefty]

He doesn't stand anyone on their head.

You're still not understanding the conversation and I can't be arsed to keep going through this. It's about achievements. Beating groves achieved nothing, he was still a world champion like he was going in, I'm not dismissing the win don't misunderstand me, but it isn't an achievement like beating Cleverly for his WBO would have been. That's what we're talking about, I've already said Froch has fought better comp overall, and I disagree with Tszyu being touted as a better win than Kessler, I'd rate them almost equally in terms of ability and their relative decline, bit Hatton achieved more beating Tszyu. Do you see the difference?

You didnt respond to my post mate in regards to Broner winning 3 world titles in 3 different weight classes. Does that mean that he's more accomplished than Hatton or on a par?

[danconnollyeire]

Not really. Both three time world champions, and Hatton is a two weight world champion. I think most people can count.

Haha, wasn't expecting that response. Bit idiotic that mate.

They've both achieved more than Ali

[danamba7]

Froch V Hatton

Titles
Hatton= LWW: WBU?? / IBF / WBA / IBO?? WW: WBA
Froch= SMW: WBC / IBF / WBA??

Genuine world title defenses
Hatton= 2 - 2 IBF LWW
Froch= 7 - 3 WBC SMW + 4 IBF SMW

Defining wins
Hatton= Tszyu, Callazo, Castillo & Paulie
Froch= Pascal, Taylor, Abraham, Bute, Kessler, Groves x2

Defining losses
Hatton= Mayweather & Pacquiao (outclassed and KOd in both)
Froch= Kessler (war, avenged) & Ward (outclassed)

KO%
Hatton= 66.67%
Froch= 68.57%

KO losses
Hatton= 3 (2 in first stint)
Froch= 0

CV= Froch

Popularity= Hatton


Froch edges it IMO.