Froch on sky

[stujones]

I find it amazing the criticism of George Groves from Saturday. He said - respect to Carl loads of times and he raised his cap to him on his two wins. ANY ambitious fighter should be confident of beating peers in their weight division. The day they are not is the day they should retire or become journeyman.

Sugar Ray Leonard himself AFTER the Camacho loss, when he briefly stated he would continue, that he felt in his heart he could beat Roy Jones.... otherwise what's the point of fighting. Obviously Leonard must have reflected more later.

Ricky Hatton when he returned, he treated Schevchenko as a stepping stone to world titles. If he didn't feel he could win a world title - why bother fighter. Lost to Schevchenko so took the harsh reality that a world title was beyond him so retired.

George only said what I hope every ambitious Super Middleweight would say? Deluded? Maybe but then so is everyone.

Ask Paul Smith if he feels he could beat Froch?

It was FROCH who basically gave Groves - his hardest world title victory, his words massive disrespect by stating he had no chance against any of the current world champions. Abraham a huge puncher??? Three stoppage wins in 5 years since he's moved up... and two of those don't have excellent records for avoiding KO defeats.

[Sklar]

Exactly, Stu. I've not boxed in years and to this day I've still never admitted that anybody could beat me if I were in shape.

[ILikeBeer]

I find it amazing the criticism of George Groves from Saturday. He said - respect to Carl loads of times and he raised his cap to him on his two wins. ANY ambitious fighter should be confident of beating peers in their weight division. The day they are not is the day they should retire or become journeyman.

Yeah, that struck me as a bit odd. I don't think George showed Carl any disrespect in what he said. Froch genuinely looked upset about it too. Considering all that George really said was, that a third fight between the pair of them would sell big, it seemed an odd reaction from Froch.

Besides, the reason that Sky had Froch sat at ringside was exactly so George would offer a third fight. He did exactly what Sky Sports wanted him to. At a time when Froch has only a few fights left in him, I'm sure both he and Sky would be interested in maximising the amount of money that can be made in each fight. Groves mentioning him creates interest, or at the very least measures the crowds reaction to the idea of a third fight.

Sky certainly didn't put Froch at ringside for Groves to ignore him.

[lefty]

I find it amazing the criticism of George Groves from Saturday. He said - respect to Carl loads of times and he raised his cap to him on his two wins. ANY ambitious fighter should be confident of beating peers in their weight division. The day they are not is the day they should retire or become journeyman.

Sugar Ray Leonard himself AFTER the Camacho loss, when he briefly stated he would continue, that he felt in his heart he could beat Roy Jones.... otherwise what's the point of fighting. Obviously Leonard must have reflected more later.

Ricky Hatton when he returned, he treated Schevchenko as a stepping stone to world titles. If he didn't feel he could win a world title - why bother fighter. Lost to Schevchenko so took the harsh reality that a world title was beyond him so retired.

George only said what I hope every ambitious Super Middleweight would say? Deluded? Maybe but then so is everyone.

Ask Paul Smith if he feels he could beat Froch?

It was FROCH who basically gave Groves - his hardest world title victory, his words massive disrespect by stating he had no chance against any of the current world champions. Abraham a huge puncher??? Three stoppage wins in 5 years since he's moved up... and two of those don't have excellent records for avoiding KO defeats.

George isnt that respectful though when you read between the lines. I saw on BS yesterday where he made a comment that Froch and Degale would struggle to sell out Bristol Leisure centre.

[danamba7]

I find it amazing the criticism of George Groves from Saturday. He said - respect to Carl loads of times and he raised his cap to him on his two wins. ANY ambitious fighter should be confident of beating peers in their weight division. The day they are not is the day they should retire or become journeyman.

Yeah, that struck me as a bit odd. I don't think George showed Carl any disrespect in what he said. Froch genuinely looked upset about it too. Considering all that George really said was, that a third fight between the pair of them would sell big, it seemed an odd reaction from Froch.

Besides, the reason that Sky had Froch sat at ringside was exactly so George would offer a third fight. He did exactly what Sky Sports wanted him to. At a time when Froch has only a few fights left in him, I'm sure both he and Sky would be interested in maximising the amount of money that can be made in each fight. Groves mentioning him creates interest, or at the very least measures the crowds reaction to the idea of a third fight.

Sky certainly didn't put Froch at ringside for Groves to ignore him.

It's just not THAT big of a fight though. All the questions from the first fight were answered in the second. That was Carl's point and I think he was right. It's 2-0, no need for a third. Plus Groves didn't exactly breeze through Rebrasse, not exactly a performance to force the third although he did OK.

[SNG]

Defences, you're criticising Hatton for not sitting at 140 and defending his titles, he could have rattled off just as many defences but chose to go after Floyd instead.

[SNG]

He doesn't stand anyone on their head.

You're still not understanding the conversation and I can't be arsed to keep going through this. It's about achievements. Beating groves achieved nothing, he was still a world champion like he was going in, I'm not dismissing the win don't misunderstand me, but it isn't an achievement like beating Cleverly for his WBO would have been. That's what we're talking about, I've already said Froch has fought better comp overall, and I disagree with Tszyu being touted as a better win than Kessler, I'd rate them almost equally in terms of ability and their relative decline, bit Hatton achieved more beating Tszyu. Do you see the difference?

You didnt respond to my post mate in regards to Broner winning 3 world titles in 3 different weight classes. Does that mean that he's more accomplished than Hatton or on a par?

Because I can't be bothered to teach you the difference between achievement and accomplished. Broner is a far more accomplished boxer than either Hatton or Froch.

[Counter-puncher]

not sure that's your best point right there mate. (RE broner being accomplished)

he couldn't outbox Marcos Maidana. as datsue said (something along the lines of) after that fight, you only had to see from the slightly shocked look on his face when Maidana jabbed him to the body, this is no in-ring Einstein. i mean, it's not just he's no, Willie Pep. he's not even Greg Haugen.

[SNG]

Nah, skill wise he leaves Hatton and Froch in the shade. They just picked the wrong fight, and jumped weights too quickly. That, and the fact he's more Judah than Floyd, but still, his actual boxing ability is there in spades.

[Counter-puncher]

disagree, bad example, personally I think you have got skill and talents/gifts a bit haywire-wrong-way-round.

[SNG]

You think he's less skilled than Froch or Hatton, in terms of boxing ability?

[domjon]

Nah, skill wise he leaves Hatton and Froch in the shade. They just picked the wrong fight, and jumped weights too quickly. That, and the fact he's more Judah than Floyd, but still, his actual boxing ability is there in spades.

not much point having all these skills if you can only show them when you have a huge weight advantage.

[SNG]

Nah, skill wise he leaves Hatton and Froch in the shade. They just picked the wrong fight, and jumped weights too quickly. That, and the fact he's more Judah than Floyd, but still, his actual boxing ability is there in spades.

not much point having all these skills if you can only show them when you have a huge weight advantage.

That's a bit harsh, he missed 140. A division he should have established himself at before going to 140, picking a soft puncher in Mallignaggi as his first fight at 147 said a lot, and he struggled somewhat with him. Broner's still a kid.

[danamba7]

Nah, skill wise he leaves Hatton and Froch in the shade. They just picked the wrong fight, and jumped weights too quickly. That, and the fact he's more Judah than Floyd, but still, his actual boxing ability is there in spades.

Froch is unorthodox but has more skill than he's often given credit for. Skill is more than just speed and flash combos, he has great timing and distance. Lacking in the defensive department as we all know but so is Broner.

[SNG]

Nah, skill wise he leaves Hatton and Froch in the shade. They just picked the wrong fight, and jumped weights too quickly. That, and the fact he's more Judah than Floyd, but still, his actual boxing ability is there in spades.

Froch is unorthodox but has more skill than he's often given credit for. Skill is more than just speed and flash combos, he has great timing and distance. Lacking in the defensive department as we all know but so is Broner.

I'm no saying Froch isn't skilled, Broner just has skills and raw ability. They got cocky and he got found out, it's happens all the time. I compared him to Judah as he was touted as the second coming before Tszyu stopped him, but his skill set was always there.

[domjon]

Nah, skill wise he leaves Hatton and Froch in the shade. They just picked the wrong fight, and jumped weights too quickly. That, and the fact he's more Judah than Floyd, but still, his actual boxing ability is there in spades.

not much point having all these skills if you can only show them when you have a huge weight advantage.

That's a bit harsh, he missed 140. A division he should have established himself at before going to 140, picking a soft puncher in Mallignaggi as his first fight at 147 said a lot, and he struggled somewhat with him. Broner's still a kid.

Potentially harsh maybe but the fact is he's looked very ordinary since sharing the ring with fighters who looked like they belong in the same weight class. The smashing up of Escobedo, De Marco and Rees looks little more than the bullying of small guys now imo.

[SNG]

It's no coincidence he's moved back down a division since Maidana. They were cherry picking and made a mistake, they rushed their fighter and made a mistake. It doesn't diminish his in ring ability to me.

[danamba7]

It's no coincidence he's moved back down a division since Maidana. They were cherry picking and made a mistake, they rushed their fighter and made a mistake. It doesn't diminish his in ring ability to me.

He definitely has ability, just not as much as he thinks!

[SNG]

It's no coincidence he's moved back down a division since Maidana. They were cherry picking and made a mistake, they rushed their fighter and made a mistake. It doesn't diminish his in ring ability to me.

He definitely has ability, just not as much as he thinks!

Absolutely.

[Datsue]

disagree, bad example, personally I think you have got skill and talents/gifts a bit haywire-wrong-way-round.

[black panther]

Broner has zero ring intelligence, lacks the humility to develop any further and is shockingly open to too many shots. Apart from that he's brilliant.

Haven't you heard? He's the new Floyd Mayweather. When he took a loss, it was like Mayweather took a loss.

[dookus]

If Broner is so skilled, why can't he move his head or parry shots? Why has he got such shitty footwork? Why can't he fight on the inside? He's only got at best half of what a skilled fighter should have - the offense, and then not all of it. Hatton at his best was a far more accomplished fighter - look at the Tackie fight and tell me that Broner has even a fraction of those skills - the head movement, the ability to control range, the way he dominated Tackie on the inside and nullified his work at range.

[expe]

If Broner is so skilled, why can't he move his head or parry shots? Why has he got such shitty footwork? Why can't he fight on the inside? He's only got at best half of what a skilled fighter should have - the offense, and then not all of it. Hatton at his best was a far more accomplished fighter - look at the Tackie fight and tell me that Broner has even a fraction of those skills - the head movement, the ability to control range, the way he dominated Tackie on the inside and nullified his work at range.

If you stand at mid range right in front of Broner he'll look great, keep him on the end of the jab, get in close, or start to move around the ring and he goes to pieces. His biggest problem is the shocking shoulder roll defence he tries to use, someone needs to teach that for it to work, he can't just lean back and half rotate at the hips. It removes every advantage it should give him, he can't block a right hand because it flies over the shoulder - again because he leans back - he can't counter anything properly because he's not making the opponent miss and to land a punch he has to shift all of his body weight forward before he throws it.

[Tomasino]

He doesn't stand anyone on their head.

You're still not understanding the conversation and I can't be arsed to keep going through this. It's about achievements. Beating groves achieved nothing, he was still a world champion like he was going in, I'm not dismissing the win don't misunderstand me, but it isn't an achievement like beating Cleverly for his WBO would have been. That's what we're talking about, I've already said Froch has fought better comp overall, and I disagree with Tszyu being touted as a better win than Kessler, I'd rate them almost equally in terms of ability and their relative decline, bit Hatton achieved more beating Tszyu. Do you see the difference?

You didnt respond to my post mate in regards to Broner winning 3 world titles in 3 different weight classes. Does that mean that he's more accomplished than Hatton or on a par?

Because I can't be bothered to teach you the difference between achievement and accomplished. Broner is a far more accomplished boxer than either Hatton or Froch.

Seriously? Getting beat by Ponce De Leon and Maidana and pushed very close by a badly faded Mallignaggi makes you a more accomplished boxer than Froch or Hatton...I've heard it all now.

His footwork, defence, power and workrate are poor. He has some hand speed and he's tough. That's it. Hardly accomplished.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Froch V Hatton

Titles
Hatton= LWW: WBU?? / IBF / WBA / IBO?? WW: WBA
Froch= SMW: WBC / IBF / WBA??

Genuine world title defenses
Hatton= 2 - 2 IBF LWW
Froch= 7 - 3 WBC SMW + 4 IBF SMW

Defining wins
Hatton= Tszyu, Callazo, Castillo & Paulie
Froch= Pascal, Taylor, Abraham, Bute, Kessler, Groves x2

Defining losses
Hatton= Mayweather & Pacquiao (outclassed and KOd in both)
Froch= Kessler (war, avenged) & Ward (outclassed)

KO%
Hatton= 66.67%
Froch= 68.57%

KO losses
Hatton= 3 (2 in first stint)
Froch= 0

CV= Froch

Popularity= Hatton


Froch edges it IMO.

I'd say more than edges it based on that.