Jerry Quarry vs

[Caractacus]

sounds like AmblingAmp2 may be just another leftist JQD (Jerry Quarry Disser).

[Caractacus]

BTW Did you know that when Jerry Quarry had fought Jimmy Ellis with three cracked discs in his lower middle back?
well,its true.
They didnt know about the fractures until after the Ellis fight when they had it X-Rayed.
Quarry had to wear a waist to neck body cast for at least two months afterwards.

They injury was supposed to have come shortly after the Thad Spencer fight when he was rough-housing with his older brother Jimmy,
but it may have also been part of a pre-existing injury from when Jerry Quarry did a balcony dive back flip into a swimming pool years earlier in 1961 when he was 16 yrs old).
But he didnt know about that injury either until 15 months later and gangrene had set in.
(he was also put into a body cast then).

[Caractacus]

It used to be that Quarry took the fight with 3 weeks notice, then it was two, now it is 10 days. Wonder when it will get the point where he was pulled out from the crowd at the last minute.
He just had a 10-round fight 30 days before this fight. He should not have been that out of shape in the time since that fight and the time he was signed on to take on Norton.

To be fair,the newspaper for the Quarry vrs Norton fight to be slated was dated March.07.1975
and the fight took place March.24.1975.
But you gotta give a few days for Quarry to get over his hangover and for his people to arrange
the impromtu training for it.Norton was already well prepared in advance and knew he was going to fight someone that evening at MSG.

[hhaehre]

Yes it is a crybaby excuse. Why would he be so "out of shape" ? He just had a fight (that lasted 10 rounds) 30 days prior.

Why? Who cares. He just wasn't in shape for that fight and the evidence is in the fight itself. Or did he look in good shape to you?

[Ambling Alp II]

He looked about the same as he had the last few years. It's not like he was built like Norton.
He just had a fight. Presumably he trained for that fight. The fight went 10 rounds. He should have very close to being sharp by the Norton fight.
Watch the 2nd Ali and 2nd Frazier fights. They are all similar. He comes out strong. Then he goes into punching bag mode, eats a lot of punches and stops throwing so much. He simply was not on Norton's level.


There plenty of fighters who had way more fights in their career and were older than Quarry who don't get the "past his prime" excuse.

Can we use the "not in shape excuse"for everybody"? I don't think we do.

[Ambling Alp II]

Yancey said"
you simply don't know what you are talking about.

Quarry was done in '74-'75.

Are you a kid?

And once again, this notion you have with chronological age is revealing.

In your simplistic world, everyone's 24 = everyone's else 24, 27 = 27, 29 = 29, etc, etc, right?

When will you ever fricking learn that some fighters can be shot in their mid-20s and some fighters can be in their prime in their mid-30s?!

I really think you are a kid or someone that has never been around sports and athletes

No I am not a kid. Thanks for showing so much class.
Obviously it doesn't automatically mean you aren't past your best if you aren't that old. I have said that many times.

However age is a general indicator.
If he had an excessive amount of fights it would be one thing. However there are many fighters who had far more fights than Quarry and were older than Quarry who don't get the past his prime pass.

When are you ever frikkin learn to stop making lame excuses for your favorites?

Your guys are in their prime, and then overnight are washed up right before they lose.
Of course this never happens for guys that aren't one of your favorites.

Now Quarry is washed up in 1974? Really? He beat Shavers in December of 1973, arguably the best win of his career. Then suddenly he is washed right before he loses again?
How convenient.

[hhaehre]

He looked about the same as he had the last few years. It's not like he was built like Norton.
He just had a fight. Presumably he trained for that fight. The fight went 10 rounds. He should have very close to being sharp by the Norton fight.

While I haven't seen the Johnson fight I very much doubt he was in great shape for it, laboring to a decision at a career high weight vs a journeyman.

Watch the 2nd Ali and 2nd Frazier fights. They are all similar. He comes out strong. Then he goes into punching bag mode, eats a lot of punches and stops throwing so much. He simply was not on Norton's level.

He clearly looked better in those two fights compared to the Norton fight. Even when he was throwing and moving forward vs Norton he looked sluggish and slow. He looked like a shot fighter, 29 years or not.

There plenty of fighters who had way more fights in their career and were older than Quarry who don't get the "past his prime" excuse.

It's not about the number of fights or age, if you're shot you're shot no matter how old you are or how many fights you've had. Benitez was shot at 25, Hopkins is ok at 50.

Can we use the "not in shape excuse"for everybody"? I don't think we do.

It's an explanation, not an excuse. You act like Norton was in a totally different league as a fighter but they have quite similar career stats and prime vs prime I just don't think there's much between them.

[Ambling Alp II]

If Quarry didn't train hard for his fight against Johnson or Norton or whoever, it's his fault. "He didn't train hard" is the my dog ate my homework excuse of boxing.
He actually looked better against Norton than he did against Ali 1972. He never came close to winning a round against Ali and was pretty much a punching bag almost the entire fight.
He did show some offense against Norton, like he did against Frazier. Then he starting becoming target practice, just like the Frazier fight.

Benitez became a drug user. That's on him. Hopkins is nowhere near as good now as he was several years ago.
Of course you can come up with exceptions. But almost every fighter is significantly better at 30 than 35.

Similar stats to Norton? No.

Norton gave Ali all he could handle. He gave Holmes all that he could handle. Quarry never came close to competing against a fighter at that level.

0-5 against Ali, Frazier, and Norton and never made it past the 7th round. Probably didn't win more than 5 rounds total in those five fights.
He was a very good fighter. He had some nice wins. He just wasn't as good as Norton.

Can we use the "he didn't train hard" excuse for Quarry's opponents too?

[Caractacus]

Here is a list of injuries that Jerry Quarry had occured going into the fight with Joe Frazier in July 1969.

1958-almost dies from neprhitis a kidney infection.(under a doctors care for 15 months)

four broken arms(from street fights)
three broken ankles (from playing baseball)
a broken nose
a"chestfull of broken ribs"from sparring sessions
broken his knuckles 17 times
ruptured appendix
had an ulcer
pool stick smashed over his head that required 14 stitches.

along with twice breaking his back of course.

[L.A. kidd]

well what do you expect from an Irishman ? brains ?

[yancey]

well what do you expect from an Irishman ? brains ?

Quarry didn't even use protective head gear in many of his sparring sessions!

If only he had listened to his family after the second Frazier fight. He had a good TV broadcasting gig with CBS at one point and then quit it to back into boxing and got more blows to the head.

Very sad end for Irish Jerry Quarry and his kid brother Mike.

May they both RIP.

p.s. Watch Quarry-Bodell on youtube to see a powerful counter-puncher, while still fairly close to his prime. Bodell doesn't last long.

I would make him a small favorite over Norton, prime for prime.

[dempseyfire]

Quarry was certainly past his best when he fought Norton; he clearly had T-cell issues (from hits to the head-Toney has the same thing) as his body transformed in the early 70s from being pretty ripped (see him vs Patterson or Frazier) to soft and puffy (vs Shavers, Frazier II, Norton) even at similar weights. He'd also taken a career's worth of punishment.

That said, I think Norton-Quarry prime for prime is a 50/50 fight. Norton with his size, left jab, and athleticism would give any version of Quarry issues. But Quarry managed to tag Norton hard several times in their 1975 fight and at his peak he'd be sharper and quicker. He also was a great body puncher and that was one of Ken's weaknesses. On the flip side, Norton had a good body dig too and Quarry was never good at dealing with guys with top-rate jabs, and Norton at his peak had one of the best. I think if Quarry wins it'd have to be by knockout. If it goes the distance Norton takes it with his greater output and endurance.

[Ambling Alp II]

Norton had a weakness for body punching? huh?
Norton had a very good defense, Quarry's was not good at all. Norton is simply going to be hitting Quarry much more often than vice versa.
Quarry had huge stamina problems. Norton's own body punching is going to make that even more of a problem.
Quarry would not have much more than a remote puncher's chance. His only chance at all is to take Norton out early.

[klompton]

Norton didnt want to have anything to do with Quarry when Quarry was in his prime. Quarry had kicked his ass in sparring and they avoided him like the plague after that. The only way Norton gets in the ring with Quarry is the way he actually did, which is to wait until Quarry was an old, bloated drunk. Quarry would have handed Norton his ass had they met anywhere up to 72 or 73. Frazier beat the shit out of what was left of Quarry and after that Norton was just picking the bones of a dead man.

[klompton]

well what do you expect from an Irishman ? brains ?

Quarry didn't even use protective head gear in many of his sparring sessions!

If only he had listened to his family after the second Frazier fight. He had a good TV broadcasting gig with CBS at one point and then quit it to back into boxing and got more blows to the head.

Very sad end for Irish Jerry Quarry and his kid brother Mike.

May they both RIP.

p.s. Watch Quarry-Bodell on youtube to see a powerful counter-puncher, while still fairly close to his prime. Bodell doesn't last long.

I would make him a small favorite over Norton, prime for prime.

Doesnt Quarry still own the Golden Gloves record for knocking out all of his opponents in the 65 tournament at Kansas City? Quarry was a hell of a puncher who just happened to be more comfortable counterpunching off the ropes.

[Caractacus]

Is there any video tape that survives of the 1965 Western Regional Golden Gloves Championship fights that was televised in the Los Angles area?
Jerry Quarry fought and won against Clay Hodges to win the Heavyweight Championship.

[Caractacus]

Here is a list of injuries that Jerry Quarry had occured going into the fight with Joe Frazier in July 1969.

1958-almost dies from neprhitis a kidney infection.(under a doctors care for 15 months)

four broken arms(from street fights)
three broken ankles (from playing baseball)
a broken nose
a"chestfull of broken ribs"from sparring sessions
broken his knuckles 17 times
ruptured appendix
had an ulcer
pool stick smashed over his head that required 14 stitches.

along with twice breaking his back of course.

Jerry Quarry also once fought a fight with a broken hand
and a had a fight when he had hepatitis.
Dont know who he fought when he was fighting under those conditions though.

[Ambling Alp II]

Lets not forget the hangnail and the time he had the sniffles. Lets also assume no one else every had an injury, especially his opponents. They were always at 100%, at their all-time best.

Just so I have this straight, Quarry was far better earlier in his career?
Strange, becasue when you look at his record, it seems to basically show the opposite.

In 1968, (age 22) he lost to Ellis.
In 1969, (age 24) he lost to Chuvalo.
In 1970, (age 25) he only lasted three rounds against Ali who had not fought in 3 and half years.


Funny, later in his career, how the drunk, out of shape, often injured, drugged addicted (did I miss anything?) Quarry beat both Lyle (at age 27) and Shavers in 1973 (at age 28), the two best performances of his career.

[hhaehre]

Lets not forget the hangnail and the time he had the sniffles. Lets also assume no one else every had an injury, especially his opponents. They were always at 100%, at their all-time best.

Just so I have this straight, Quarry was far better earlier in his career?
Strange, becasue when you look at his record, it seems to basically show the opposite.

In 1968, (age 22) he lost to Ellis.
In 1969, (age 24) he lost to Chuvalo.
In 1970, (age 25) he only lasted three rounds against Ali who had not fought in 3 and half years.


Funny, later in his career, how the drunk, out of shape, often injured, drugged addicted (did I miss anything?) Quarry beat both Lyle (at age 27) and Shavers in 1973 (at age 28), the two best performances of his career.

You're right, Quarry was much better in 75. Imagine losing to bums like Ellis and Chuvalo and then to top it off by losing on a cut to Ali, a man who had been away for a 100 years at least. Quarry clearly was on top of his game when he fought Norton but as we all know Norton beat Ali and is therefore the second best heavyweight of all time and thus easily handled prime Quarry.

On a side note, Frazier is not the second best heavyweight of all time despite beating Ali because the greatest had been away from the game for a 1000 years before FOTC. BTW that's in no way shape or form an excuse, it's a fact.

[Tony1244]

Quarry could never have beaten a ready to go Ali, Foreman, Frazier, or Norton. He simply wasn't good enough. As exciting as Shavers and Lyle sometimes were, Shavers and Lyle are not in the Ali or Frazier league.

[klompton]

Quarry could and would beat Norton in his prime.

[Ambling Alp II]

Could have and would have. If only this or that.

[yancey]

Could have and would have. If only this or that.

I don't think you are really interested in the truth.

You're just interested in debating.

Quarry was a sad shell of himself for the Norton fight.

There is absolutely no doubt about that.

[Ambling Alp II]

Yes I am interested in the truth. I wouldn't say it if I did not believe it.
I am going by reality, not just excuse making for a guy that you like, which is what you are doing as usual.
Yes there is plenty of doubt that Quarry was a sad shell of himself for the Norton fight.
In fact, I have mentioned several things which of course you ignore because it's not convenient.
He was not old.
He had not been in a huge amount of fights.
He was still ranked highly by Ring Magazine going into the Norton fight.
You say he was washed up by 1973; which is when the two best performances of his career were. That doesn't make any sense.
You say he was at his best in his early 20s. He lost to Ellis, and Chuvalo then. If he was so good, then, he wins those fights.

[klompton]

Yes I am interested in the truth. I wouldn't say it if I did not believe it.
I am going by reality, not just excuse making for a guy that you like, which is what you are doing as usual.
Yes there is plenty of doubt that Quarry was a sad shell of himself for the Norton fight.
In fact, I have mentioned several things which of course you ignore because it's not convenient.
He was not old.
He had not been in a huge amount of fights.
He was still ranked highly by Ring Magazine going into the Norton fight.
You say he was washed up by 1973; which is when the two best performances of his career were. That doesn't make any sense.
You say he was at his best in his early 20s. He lost to Ellis, and Chuvalo then. If he was so good, then, he wins those fights.

I find it odd that people are so quick to point to Shavers and Lyle as Quarry's two best performances. What had either done up to that point for those wins to be so special to Quarry's resume? Quarry was Lyle's first big fight and Shavers second big fight. Shavers was never very good to begin with so you would hope that if Quarry was half as good as his biggest fans think he was he would have beaten Shavers. Lyle was almost totally unproven. His biggest win to date had been his victory over Buster Mathis who was basically coming off two one sided losses and was 20 to 40 pounds over weight, or maybe his fight with Rondon who was 25 pounds overweight. In hindsight those wins might, MIGHT, be big wins but at that point both guys had barely popped their cherrys. The point is that those wins dont necessarily point to Jerry still being in his prime.