Lacy and Bute similarities

[danamba7]

I think it was Carl's best performance, he came out, and just took it straight to him, working behind a really stiff jab, didn't give Bute a moment to get into his own boxing.

The other one was Tatevosyan - a very slippery operator, who most expected to give Carl his hardest night's work to date, but Carl again boxed off the jab, started fast, and took him apart. I think Carl's versatility is a little bit underrated, he can adjust his gameplan to suit the opponent.

Boxed very well Vs Abraham too

[jamesmcdonnell]

Here's a great preview of Bute-Froch, love the last line:

http://www.badlefthook.com/2012/5/25/30 ... sky-sports

One way or another, the Froch fight will teach us more about who Lucian Bute really is in the ring -- whether he's earned the accolades, or whether he's been a sheep in wolf's clothing all this time.

Very nice article - apart from the prediction - but no shame in that.

[jamesmcdonnell]

I think it was Carl's best performance, he came out, and just took it straight to him, working behind a really stiff jab, didn't give Bute a moment to get into his own boxing.

The other one was Tatevosyan - a very slippery operator, who most expected to give Carl his hardest night's work to date, but Carl again boxed off the jab, started fast, and took him apart. I think Carl's versatility is a little bit underrated, he can adjust his gameplan to suit the opponent.

Boxed very well Vs Abraham too

Yes, good call. Very intelligent bit of boxing there.

[Boxerbeetle]

I think Calzaghe's beat-down of Lacy is probably the fight I've seen more times than any other. As I said on another thread, Calzaghe was the first boxer I went to see live, and I'd followed his career right from the beginning as he's from just down the road from me (I even served him a drink when I worked as a bartender during my student years - he had a Pineapple Bacardi Breezer!), so the Lacy fight was about as good as a result ever got for me.

[samwbr]

Both Lacy and Bute will be haunted by their respective defeats. Totally destroyed. Neither Froch nor Calzaghe would have lost to anyone on those nights due to what was supposed to unfold and how they rammed it back down the critics throats.
Brilliant brilliant performances.

[SNG]

Here's a great preview of Bute-Froch, love the last line:

http://www.badlefthook.com/2012/5/25/30 ... sky-sports

One way or another, the Froch fight will teach us more about who Lucian Bute really is in the ring -- whether he's earned the accolades, or whether he's been a sheep in wolf's clothing all this time.

Very nice article - apart from the prediction - but no shame in that.

It's been a long time but I don't remember there being the question mark regarding Lacy- Calzaghe, it was to be Lacy's coming out party and very very few picked against him. I also wouldn't call Bute chinny, Froch isn't the biggest puncher but he was landing lots of heavy punches and Bute was getting through the rounds, a chinny boxer wouldn't have made it as far if you ask me. Excellent performance from Carl though.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Here's a great preview of Bute-Froch, love the last line:

http://www.badlefthook.com/2012/5/25/30 ... sky-sports

One way or another, the Froch fight will teach us more about who Lucian Bute really is in the ring -- whether he's earned the accolades, or whether he's been a sheep in wolf's clothing all this time.

Very nice article - apart from the prediction - but no shame in that.

It's been a long time but I don't remember there being the question mark regarding Lacy- Calzaghe, it was to be Lacy's coming out party and very very few picked against him. I also wouldn't call Bute chinny, Froch isn't the biggest puncher but he was landing lots of heavy punches and Bute was getting through the rounds, a chinny boxer wouldn't have made it as far if you ask me. Excellent performance from Carl though.

Agreed - he took a tonne of abuse before he capitulated - bit like the wife's back door.

[johnswan1]

Agreed - he took a tonne of abuse before he capitulated - bit like the wife's back door.

You're on form today JMD!

[jamesmcdonnell]

Agreed - he took a tonne of abuse before he capitulated - bit like the wife's back door.

You're on form today JMD!

Funnily enough, that was what she said afterwards!

[Counter-puncher]

I really rated Lacy before Calzaghe.

I reckon Undefeated Lacy stops Bute late on.

Lacy seemed to perform better being undefeated and looked great.

The lose seemed to deny his confidence and his confidence was always one of his strengths.

Would of been a good fight.

I'm inclined to agree - Lacy was slow, but Bute has got hurt by slow fighters before - e.g. Andrade and dare I say Froch. Whatever we think of Lacy, he had a chin of cast iron but possibly suspect stamina - but I think Left hook would have hurt and walloped Bute.

Lacy could soak up some punishment but Joe did wobble him.

IMO that left uppercut that he walked Lacy onto that wobbled him- Bute's money punch- If biscuit-hands could wobble him, Bute would put him in a world of trouble.

[jameswilson]

Agreed - he took a tonne of abuse before he capitulated - bit like the wife's back door.

You're on form today JMD!

Funnily enough, that was what she said afterwards!

We all naturally assumed it was two blokes called Leroy and Jamal doing the honours.

[crusader]

I really rated Lacy before Calzaghe.

I reckon Undefeated Lacy stops Bute late on.

Lacy seemed to perform better being undefeated and looked great.

The lose seemed to deny his confidence and his confidence was always one of his strengths.

Would of been a good fight.

I'm inclined to agree - Lacy was slow, but Bute has got hurt by slow fighters before - e.g. Andrade and dare I say Froch. Whatever we think of Lacy, he had a chin of cast iron but possibly suspect stamina - but I think Left hook would have hurt and walloped Bute.

Froch applied non-stop pressure and Andrade (who lost both fights) was a steady aggressor who while slow would put his punches together rather than swinging with single punches here and there as Lacy generally did. For me Bute seemed a bit Wlad K like in that he looked uncomfortable when under fire, but against someone like Lacy I think he could've settled in more and generally avoided the big shots when they would come at him. Also, while he certainly wasn't the most durable he never went down against Froch despite taking a heavy beating and he only went down in the final round against Andrade--his lone professional trip to the canvas--following a thrashing while he was exhausted. Of course he does have the sudden stoppage loss to GGG in the amateurs, but at least as a pro Bute hasn't been one to fall from just a shot or two, and I'm not sure that Lacy, who relied so heavily on one shot, would be able to do what Froch and Andrade did.

[Boxerbeetle]

The more I think about it, the more I think Lacy would have gotten to Bute and stopped him. If they'd met prime for prime, Bute would have been absolutely terrified of Lacy and would have wilted and capitulated exactly like he did against Froch.

[Horse]

The more I think about it, the more I think Lacy would have gotten to Bute and stopped him. If they'd met prime for prime, Bute would have been absolutely terrified of Lacy and would have wilted and capitulated exactly like he did against Froch.

Froch is a heck of a lot better than Lacy.

[stujones]

I really rated Lacy before Calzaghe.

I reckon Undefeated Lacy stops Bute late on.

Lacy seemed to perform better being undefeated and looked great.

The lose seemed to deny his confidence and his confidence was always one of his strengths.

Would of been a good fight.

I'm inclined to agree - Lacy was slow, but Bute has got hurt by slow fighters before - e.g. Andrade and dare I say Froch. Whatever we think of Lacy, he had a chin of cast iron but possibly suspect stamina - but I think Left hook would have hurt and walloped Bute.

Froch applied non-stop pressure and Andrade (who lost both fights) was a steady aggressor who while slow would put his punches together rather than swinging with single punches here and there as Lacy generally did. For me Bute seemed a bit Wlad K like in that he looked uncomfortable when under fire, but against someone like Lacy I think he could've settled in more and generally avoided the big shots when they would come at him. Also, while he certainly wasn't the most durable he never went down against Froch despite taking a heavy beating and he only went down in the final round against Andrade--his lone professional trip to the canvas--following a thrashing while he was exhausted. Of course he does have the sudden stoppage loss to GGG in the amateurs, but at least as a pro Bute hasn't been one to fall from just a shot or two, and I'm not sure that Lacy, who relied so heavily on one shot, would be able to do what Froch and Andrade did.

I'm not saying Bute was in Herbie Hide stakes in terms of chin, but he does seem vulnerable to me. Bruno never went down many times either, but he could still get hit and hurt - The Froch fight was effectively "over" after round one.... it might be a case of, how Nigel Benn put it re Bruno, perhaps Bute's chin is too good? But his survival instincts are shocking.

Whilst Lacy was indeed over hyped - I think you are doing his Pre Calzaghe form a bit of a disservice.... we was a well decorated Amateur and not just a hit and hope one punch KO specialist. He could throw some decent combinations when in range and was good against slow fighters.... problem was against Joe he was up against a fast handed fighter with a great engine who just showed up his lack of defense up. Would Bute be quick enough to do the same. I don't know.

I think it would be one of those fights which is quite hard to call but would be one sided one way or the other. Either Bute wouldn't be quick enough and we'd see Lacy dominate him ala Robin Reid, or we would see Bute outbox Lacy and possibly force a late stoppage in a one-sided fight. Personally, I would edge with the first option. I think as you say, Bute needs time to settle in fights and I don't think Lacy would give him that time. Bute actually reminds me a lot of Robin Reid in terms of style, but possibly with less variety in his tactics.

[sendo]

Bute fought and beat a significantly higher level of opposition than Lacy imo. He also dealt comfortably with Edison Miranda and Andrade in the rematch, so it's not like he was a soft fighter. For me he would have comfortably outboxed Lacy for a UD.

[Boxerbeetle]

So what do we think about Calzaghe vs Bute and Froch vs Lacy? Ironically, it seems to me they would actually both be incredibly tough fights for all concerned.

I think Calzaghe would have just outworked Bute and got a 116-112 type decision. Froch vs Lacy could potentially have been an insane slugfest which I could see going either way a la Kessler 1, although if Froch came out and boxed like he did against Abraham he would have made it a lot easier on himself.

[sendo]

Froch - Lacy would have been like Froch - Pascal imo, Froch outboxing and outworking for a decision.

[crusader]

I'm not saying Bute was in Herbie Hide stakes in terms of chin, but he does seem vulnerable to me. Bruno never went down many times either, but he could still get hit and hurt - The Froch fight was effectively "over" after round one.... it might be a case of, how Nigel Benn put it re Bruno, perhaps Bute's chin is too good? But his survival instincts are shocking.

Whilst Lacy was indeed over hyped - I think you are doing his Pre Calzaghe form a bit of a disservice.... we was a well decorated Amateur and not just a hit and hope one punch KO specialist. He could throw some decent combinations when in range and was good against slow fighters.... problem was against Joe he was up against a fast handed fighter with a great engine who just showed up his lack of defense up. Would Bute be quick enough to do the same. I don't know.

I think it would be one of those fights which is quite hard to call but would be one sided one way or the other. Either Bute wouldn't be quick enough and we'd see Lacy dominate him ala Robin Reid, or we would see Bute outbox Lacy and possibly force a late stoppage in a one-sided fight. Personally, I would edge with the first option. I think as you say, Bute needs time to settle in fights and I don't think Lacy would give him that time. Bute actually reminds me a lot of Robin Reid in terms of style, but possibly with less variety in his tactics.

Froch applied an extremely high level of pressure early against Bute and never let him get comfortable. It was not as if he imposed himself at one point early, consequently made Bute cave, and thereafter could do whatever he wanted because Bute had mentally capitulated. The key for me was that Froch never let up, and hence Bute had no breathing room or time to establish a rhythm. I don't see Lacy applying that sort of non-stop pressure and voluminous combination punching to anywhere near the extent Froch did, not to mention that I think even at his best he was clearly worse than Froch and would have trouble being as effective even if he attempted that approach.

To me Lacy was always a notably limited fighter and I wasn't one of the people who hyped him or tipped him to beat Calzaghe. Even at his best he was fairly one-dimensional and relied too much on loaded up single shots, was slow and easy to hit, and in his title winning effort fought very closely with unspectacular Syd Vanderpool prior to winning in the eighth, which he followed up by scoring a close decision over Omar Sheika, who was 3-3 in his last six and had been defeated significantly more throughly by Bute's predecessor Eric Lucas two fights before. In fact, I'm not sure if Lacy was ever any better overall or more skilled than another Olympian (who did much better against JC) in Sakio Bika, someone Bute easily won nearly every round against. Related to that, him being on the US Olympic team doesn't mean much when he showed me little skill as a pro and people with a wide-range of skills and styles have excelled in the amateurs.

I think Bute was the much better boxer, faster with his hands and feet, had enough power to get Lacy's respect, and was tough enough physically avoid foundering after a couple left hooks. I don't see him mentally caving unless Lacy was really taking it too him and giving him a beating, but I think he'd be able to evade that with a mix of lateral movement and long shots from out of Lacy's range. He may very well have been caught and stopped at some point though and it's not a fight I would've felt very confident about predicting.

[Boxerbeetle]

People keep saying that Froch was relentless and put pressure on early etc - but as I remember, he came out fairly cagey in the first couple of rounds as usual. He only stepped the pressure up when he tagged Bute and it was obvious that he was so fragile. I just don't see Lacy not landing a big punch for 12 rounds; as soon as he landed one, the fight would basically have been over due to Bute's very poor survival skills. If Bute had entered the Super Six, he'd have been exposed a lot sooner.

[crusader]

As I recall he came out fairly aggressively behind the jab, then stepped it up further and really let the power go in the second after landing a good shot and pushing Bute back. Bute doesn't take the best shot but I think he has more of an issue with staying composed under pressure, with pressure being more than walking forward looking tough while having an offense that is mainly just telegraphed swings here and there--kind of what Bika offered when Bute handily beat him. For all the talk of Bute's durability he's only been down once, was exhausted, and took a hell of a lot of punishment before going down, so I don't think it's safe to assume he'd crumble physically or mentally as soon as Lacy landed a powerful blow and I believe that he'd be more able to weather the storm against Lacy than against Froch.

I'm glad I never bought into the Lacy hype and I'm still wondering why it was so pronounced in the first place. People say things like 'oh ya but don't forget how good he was in his prime', but you're talking about a guy who shortly before winning his title went into the 8th round level on the cards with Donnell Wiggins, someone who lost to every notable opponent he faced and drew with a 14-26 clubfighter 11 months before. Not long after, Lacy fought on roughly even terms with Fitz Vanderpool through 7 in his title winning fight, which was followed by a tough, fairly close bout with Omar Sheika, who was 3-3 in his last 6, had been easily beaten by Eric Lucas in his previous world title attempt, and was stopped by ESPN-level fighter Scott Pemberton--incidentally one of the best opponents Lacy beat--earlier that year.

Lacy shined almost entirely against very limited opposition, looked one-dimensional from the start, and I never got the excitement about him. There was hype around Bute too, but it didn't seem nearly as pronounced, he beat a superior group of opponents, and in my view showed more ability.

[IRLangmaid25]

In regards to Lucian Bute v Jeff Lacy in their unbeaten primes. For me the taller and more athletic Bute dominates Lacy. Bute was quicker and lighter on his feet than Lacy was in their prime and would use his quicker feet and southpaw stance to work the angles to outhustle and outwork Lacy, although I do envisage Lacy stunning him a couple of times.

As for the opponent swap for Froch and Calzaghe. With Froch going in with Lacy, I see something similar to the Arthur Abraham fight. With Robert McCracken wary of Lacy's power telling the Cobra to box Lacy's ears off off the jab. Because Froch had an underated left jab in my eyes which looked a very strong stinging look to it. And Bute v Calzaghe would be scrappy due to them being southpaws.

[whiskey]

I bought the Lacy disc set prior to the Reid fight, and was very very underwhelmed.

Going life or death at the Playboy mansion with Alien Grant, or being outboxed by a crude old Sheika.

Those who say he was a beast before he fought Joe, have obviously never seen any other fight other than Reid.

'Bookies Favourite' is another line trundled out, yet I didn't make a great deal backing Joe.

Brian Magee stopped him in amateurs I'm sure.

[jamesmcdonnell]

I bought the Lacy disc set prior to the Reid fight, and was very very underwhelmed.

Going life or death at the Playboy mansion with Alien Grant, or being outboxed by a crude old Sheika.

Those who say he was a beast before he fought Joe, have obviously never seen any other fight other than Reid.

'Bookies Favourite' is another line trundled out, yet I didn't make a great deal backing Joe.

Brian Magee stopped him in amateurs I'm sure.

I backed Calzaghe to the hilt, all the way....until I saw Lacy destroy Reid. In hindsight, I read far too much into that fight, and got far too excited over a single performance against a guy quite a way past his best.

[observer1]

How is this even close?

Bute has some legitimate wins and only came up short against big hitters. He was a Legit Champion

Lacy was just a belt holder. The first time he stepped up he got waxed.