Ali vs Liston 2

[BoxBuzz]

Have you ever heard of the perfect storm? There were a lot of odd things that lined up pretty well for that. It just was what it was....AND Liston did recover and was ready to fight.....it's not like Liston was KO'd into unconsciousness.......I mean who would have thought that Cooper could put Ali down given Ali's (later to be recognized,) granite chin? Shyt happens. Ughh....please see the Zora knockdown......and give us your take on that. I mean it....what happened there?

Wanna know another major source of inexplicability within our universe? How is it that Ali knocks out Bonavena and finishes him, when Frazier could not do it? Again...Shyt happens. Sometimes it goes against predictability.

Very "scientific" post by BoxBuzz.

And I don't see anything in there you could ban yourself for.

Keep up the good work, Buzz!

I was using the same science fiction factualities that you are so fond of LoZo!

Every word designed to bring you out of your shell, you ol' gran-stander.

Welcome back.....and remember.....follow the rules of good conduct at all times.

[Controversial]

Have you ever heard of the perfect storm? There were a lot of odd things that lined up pretty well for that. It just was what it was....AND Liston did recover and was ready to fight.....it's not like Liston was KO'd into unconsciousness.......I mean who would have thought that Cooper could put Ali down given Ali's (later to be recognized,) granite chin? Shyt happens. Ughh....please see the Zora knockdown......and give us your take on that. I mean it....what happened there?

Wanna know another major source of inexplicability within our universe? How is it that Ali knocks out Bonavena and finishes him, when Frazier could not do it? Again...Shyt happens. Sometimes it goes against predictability.

To be fair those examples are incomparable to the Liston fight. Yes boxing is full of strange results, upsets etc.. but the Liston fight just doesn't look like a normal stoppage to me. Ali was never a puncher, he wore fighters down or outpointed them. Even some of the fights he won by stoppage he couldn't manage to KO his opponent, Cooper twice stopped on cuts, Frazier retired, Quarry stopped on cuts, Bonavena the three knockdown rule and Patterson stopped on cuts as examples. You can even argue that Foreman punched himself to a standstill and that loss was more down to that than Ali's punch power.

Ali only had two 1st round wins in his entire career, Liston and the other being a win over a 177lb last minute substitute at the start of his career. It just seems quite bizarre that someone as tough as Liston would be knocked out 2 minutes into a fight by the most innocuous looking punch you could see.

So we have Ali scoring probably the only one punch knock out in his entire career against a tough and great fighter who was never knocked out before. How many other examples like this can you think of?

Of course reading stuff like this just adds more weight to it

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... d-mob.html




,

[Ambling Alp II]

Ali could punch. He no Earnie Shavers or George Foreman, but he could hit. He hurt fighters with one punch several times in his career.

I don't think many people think the one punch that landed was enough to knock Liston out. However, it is plausible that the punch caught Liston off guard and knocked him down. Ali stood over him and told him to get up. (One thing that gets lost is that he did this for a very short period of time. However, the picture of it is what people remember)

The referee was clueless and lost control of the fight.

I like many people have changed their minds about this fight over the years. I do think Liston had every intention of throwing the fight.
He would have lost anyway, ali was too fast and too good for him.

However, one thing I have always been curios about is the over/under of how many rounds it was supposed to go. That is where the motive for throwing the fight comes into play.
He probably meant to go down in the thrid or fourth round or so.

I think the punch threw him off guard and he ab libbed from there.

[Ambling Alp II]

btw-Walcott-Marciano II looks just as suspicous.

[Controversial]

Ali could punch. He no Earnie Shavers or George Foreman, but he could hit. He hurt fighters with one punch several times in his career.

I don't think many people think the one punch that landed was enough to knock Liston out. However, it is plausible that the punch caught Liston off guard and knocked him down. Ali stood over him and told him to get up. (One thing that gets lost is that he did this for a very short period of time. However, the picture of it is what people remember)

I think the punch threw him off guard and he ab libbed from there.

Sure any heavyweight can hurt you, Ali may have hurt opponents but other than Liston I can't think of anyone else he knocked out with one punch. I could even give the benefit of the doubt and credit Ali with catching Liston off guard and scoring a flash knockdown but I just don't believe that punch was enough to knock him out.

[BoxBuzz]

Now now Brother LoZo......all we ask is for your courteous regard for others. Nothing more.

You can espouse and embrace any and all of the creative forms of conspiracy and/or hypothetical abstractions you wish on this welcoming boxing forum.

You can even mix in some hard core measurable empirical facts within them to make your various and random bejabberings all the more difficult to assess for those rare bits of credible actualities.


As I recall,your brother Bo was the happy sort.....never a problem, never a care loved to spread joy. Why can't you be more like Bo?

[evrenb]

Welcome back.....and remember.....follow the rules of good conduct at all times.

But that doesn't apply to your buddies Gian "poofter" Carlo or hysterical erven

does it, Buzz?

Why so "selective" in your enforcing of your supposed rules?

Or to that illiterate , alcoholic purveyor of fine young men...what's his name? The one that offers nothing but catty , childlike comments and is about as knowledgeable as a one celled doggy treat...loverenfzo1971???

[BoxBuzz]

Have you ever heard of the perfect storm? There were a lot of odd things that lined up pretty well for that. It just was what it was....AND Liston did recover and was ready to fight.....it's not like Liston was KO'd into unconsciousness.......I mean who would have thought that Cooper could put Ali down given Ali's (later to be recognized,) granite chin? Shyt happens. Ughh....please see the Zora knockdown......and give us your take on that. I mean it....what happened there?

Wanna know another major source of inexplicability within our universe? How is it that Ali knocks out Bonavena and finishes him, when Frazier could not do it? Again...Shyt happens. Sometimes it goes against predictability.

To be fair those examples are incomparable to the Liston fight. Yes boxing is full of strange results, upsets etc.. but the Liston fight just doesn't look like a normal stoppage to me. Ali was never a puncher, he wore fighters down or outpointed them. Even some of the fights he won by stoppage he couldn't manage to KO his opponent, Cooper twice stopped on cuts, Frazier retired, Quarry stopped on cuts, Bonavena the three knockdown rule and Patterson stopped on cuts as examples. You can even argue that Foreman punched himself to a standstill and that loss was more down to that than Ali's punch power.

Ali only had two 1st round wins in his entire career, Liston and the other being a win over a 177lb last minute substitute at the start of his career. It just seems quite bizarre that someone as tough as Liston would be knocked out 2 minutes into a fight by the most innocuous looking punch you could see.

So we have Ali scoring probably the only one punch knock out in his entire career against a tough and great fighter who was never knocked out before. How many other examples like this can you think of?

Of course reading stuff like this just adds more weight to it

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... d-mob.html




,

I don't think we disagree....all he did was knock a guy down who was almost falling anyway....and discombobulated him for a bit....if the ref had not crapped in the middle of the ring, the fight could have gone on. No one is saying Ali managed a KO....jus a legit KD which led to disastrously incompetent officiating which goofed things up. Not pretty.....but nothing mysterious other than how the hell did Jersey Joe get the gig.

[BoxBuzz]

evenrb I had to edit your fecal comment....... stay within the lines of not personally attacking someone.


I know you might consider it an observation vs an insult....but once we start using expletives or near expletives...we go too far.


So I have inserted the word "treat" in order to maintain civility.

[evrenb]

evenrb I had to edit your fecal comment....... stay within the lines of not personally attacking someone.


I know you might consider it an observation vs an insult....but once we start using expletives or near expletives...we go too far.


So I have inserted the word "treat" in order to maintain civility.

I'll slap my wrist...

[evrenb]

evenrb I had to edit your fecal comment....... stay within the lines of not personally attacking someone.


I know you might consider it an observation vs an insult....but once we start using expletives or near expletives...we go too far.


So I have inserted the word "treat" in order to maintain civility.

and I will slap your wrist for spelling my moniker wrong ..you minute collection of favoured doggy treats

[evrenb]

evenrb I had to edit your fecal comment....... stay within the lines of not personally attacking someone.


I know you might consider it an observation vs an insult....but once we start using expletives or near expletives...we go too far.


So I have inserted the word "treat" in order to maintain civility.

I'll slap my wrist...

You don't need to slap your wrist, evren.

You are Buzz' boy.

Just keep up with your hysterical defenses of your hero Ali's flaws.

And we are all interested to see how you proceed further with your attempt to emulate your buddy poofterCarlo in leaving homosexual droppings all over boxrec.

God you are a boring James Blunt

[yancey]

delete

[yancey]

Walcott-Marciano II indeed was suspicious, but if something was not right, it was sold much better, if you get my drift.

And the Marciano punch did have some power behind it, unlike the "couldn't crush a grape" punch.

[BoxBuzz]

Walcott-Marciano II indeed was suspicious, but if something was not right, it was sold much better, if you get my drift.

And the Marciano punch did have some power behind it, unlike the "couldn't crush a grape" punch.

I think it was Carnera's punches that couldn't crush a grape....he just stole the line for expediency sake.


And Walcott was not falling into Rocky's punch as I recall. Remember Liston's full weight and forward movement was probably helpful in that collision. Ya really gotta pay attention to details.

However I know your excited as you were always sort of soft on ol granny, and wishing he could just restrain his anger enough to be civil and thus allowed to participate in our friendly "sharing place" ......can you just ask him to be nice...and he'll get to stay.....? Currently it seems he does not value the "alternative lifestyles" that we are all being asked to be more understanding of, and appears to be using such "life choices" in a derogatory way. Not sure we can sustain hostility of that nature for long.

Just' sayin......I'm fair but firm.

[Giancarlo]

Buzz, just to be clear.

I don't mind granberry referring to me as a 'poofter'.

In fact, I find it amusing given that he used to post snaps of semi-naked young lads with comments such as "Look at that for a pair of legs!!!" and "How about that for a set of back muscles!!!".

With gold like that, it would be a travesty to ever consider banning him.

[BoxBuzz]

I'm fair but firm.

Yes, buzz, your flunkies evren and gincarlo run free with their insults,

but you threaten me when I dare to answer their crap.

Fair but firm, my ass.

gran....please place in quotes any offending statements that these rumpswabs of mine have initiated and PM me ....I just can't seem to find them for the moment.

And your history is that you always claimed that anyone who disagrees with you is a rumpswab of mine.....evrenb is relatively new here.....he has no idea what your talking about.

He wasn't around when you last attempted to converse politely with this community.


Now look....you shouldn't even be allowed this "umpteenth" return visit.......but I really value diversity of opinion (so much so that your detractors think you and I are bestest buddies) and some of the regulars seem to get along well with you. So I'm going to once again be far too open minded. But you only get one shot.....break the rules and LoZo gets the Bozo rush.


Also, there are some other mods who will just move you right along if they get a single whiff of your nonsense. So my patience/tolerance may not get you far.

I suggest you stick to boxing issues, and boxing opinion.... a little small talk, and most of all, follow the rules of courtesy that are required here.

Your opinions and ideas will NEVER get you banned....but your sorry behavior will....just as in the past.

End of story.

[BoxBuzz]

please place in quotes any offending statements that these rumpswabs of mine have initiated and PM me ....I just can't seem to find them for the moment.

Of course you can't.

But you see my answers to their non boxing filth.

Admit it, buz.

You just can't take it when someone points out how ridiculous your Ali worship is.

Well I don't see filth...But your opinion of their benign contribution is noted. That won't get you whacked, though it's pretty eccentric crap in my opinion.

As far as Ali, he's a pretty popular fighter......I think he's perhaps the greatest HW of all time. But I'm far from alone on that....so I'm not sure it's that odd.

And I do understand you can't stand him. No problem. I think we just disagree......now let's see how well we can go about our business NOT being disagreeable.

Lose your temper, and begin with the indescriminate name calling again and your going right back into the dumpster. No one gets away with that style of tantrum in this forum.

This is the sweet science. I expect you to follow suit.

[BoxBuzz]

Back to the subject at hand.

This just in:

Leotis Martin KO's Liston flat into lala land.

Based on this, there is no doubt that Marty must have been even better than Ali.

Of Course by this time Liston is nearly 90 years old.

[BoxBuzz]

More relevant info:

Both Liston and Ali are able to KO Chuck Wepner in the later rounds of their respective fights with this man.

This means that Chuck could take a lickin, and almost keep on tickin.

[BoxBuzz]

Wait a minute,,, I just remembered something.....

I think Ali knocked out Sonny Banks in 4 rounds....but it took Leotis Martin 9 rounds to knock him out. The SAME amount of rounds it took Leotis to Knock out Liston.

I think this may be important.


And the case of Billy Daniels.....a fella that Ali took out in 7 rounds....Doug Jones couldn't do it two tries....and lost to Billy in his second attempt. Leotis couldn't put him out either.

These are troo fax, and you just can't argue with them. I mean Doug Jones...losing to Billy Daniels....who would ever have guessed that such a thing could be?

[Giancarlo]

Ah, the old 'stooge referees' and 'designated winner' stories.

Won't be long before we get the one about the "stooge referee deliberately poking his fingers into Frazier's eyes".

All pure comedic gold.

And what makes it doubly funny is there will be a couple of posters thinking this stuff is for real.

[Giancarlo]

Is that because they are rabid espousers of the divinity of Ali like you are?

Pure. Comedy. Gold.

[evrenb]

I'm fair but firm.

Yes, buzz, your flunkies evren and gincarlo run free with their insults,

but you threaten me when I dare to answer their crap.

Fair but firm, my ass.

My favourite fighter of all time is actually Charles Sonny Liston. I admire Ali also, like many others. Unlike you , however, I am able to seperate my personal feelings/hatred in forming an opinion. You have just appeared on here to be insulting so you are getting it back. Your opinions are on the whole worthless, your point is worthless and you are a totally worthless, homophobic bigot.

[Ambling Alp II]

Ali could punch. He no Earnie Shavers or George Foreman, but he could hit. He hurt fighters with one punch several times in his career.

I don't think many people think the one punch that landed was enough to knock Liston out. However, it is plausible that the punch caught Liston off guard and knocked him down. Ali stood over him and told him to get up. (One thing that gets lost is that he did this for a very short period of time. However, the picture of it is what people remember)

I think the punch threw him off guard and he ab libbed from there.

Sure any heavyweight can hurt you, Ali may have hurt opponents but other than Liston I can't think of anyone else he knocked out with one punch. I could even give the benefit of the doubt and credit Ali with catching Liston off guard and scoring a flash knockdown but I just don't believe that punch was enough to knock him out.

I don't think many people think it was a legitimate knockout. However, I (and many people) think it was legitimate knockdown.