Bernard Hopkins: Historically, where does he belong?

[Undefeated49-0]

You have no way of knowing for sure that Moore would've beaten Hopkins and out of all those things you've shown he beat Robert Allen easily in the rematch, he beat Jones going the distance, he took on Chad a 2nd time and came up short but never got hurt or looked like he was unable to finish the fight. He also TKO'd Echols after being slammed and his shoulder out of place with one hand.

Many believe he won that fight vs Calzaghe (including Joe's own father https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ligpy3xjUA ), the only thing that alienated the Alien in that bout was his "white boy " comment.

So you have proven nothing, and if it means being a metroman and a

typical American

to have respect for someone who ducked no one and who often times beat men that were younger, stronger and faster than him, then so be it.

But it's clear to see that you don't like us (AMERICANS).!!

[armageto]

Top 5 MW all time

Top 20 P4P all time


Just IMO, but it's hard for me to discount his longevity. Whether it was his MW reign, career as a whole, or both. He never really ducked anyone, rare in this day and age. His fights might not have been the most exciting from the middle to end of his career, but he got the job done. Usually at an age/power disadvantage as well.

[caldo2025]

"My boy" turB? No racist overtones there, eh caldo?



Wow, you and 49-0 are two peas in a pod. Do you both call each other and examine every word in a post and try to find a way you could somehow. someway, twist it into a racial insult? It's uncanny. Oh, let me just double check that last sentence I typed to see if i can do it too.

Got it. "Peas, ha Caldo? you know the band Black Eyed Peas? Yeah they are African American so that's racist".

How'd I do, Tanzio/49-0/KBB/KC? Do i show any promise?

First you criticize both of us for not reading your posts thoroughly. Now you accuse us of having the audacity to "examine every word" of your posts.

You are a confused puppy, caldo.

You need to thoroughly examine your own posts, before you projectile vomit them upon all of us, to be sure that you are actually communicating clearly. You opened up BHop's outside the ring activities to consideration relative to his legacy, not us. When you naively (or otherwise) did so race issues came into play.

Therefore, you brought the racially charged issues to the table, ignorantly or otherwise. You are responsible for what you say in your posts here. You need to have the nutz to defend your position or to admit when you are wrong.

But you are like a high school freshman explaining the poor grade that he has received on his first creative writing paper to his parents with "that's how I wanted to say it. I don't care what others think. I didn't write it for them. I wrote it for myself. People are just too stupid to understand."

BHop's legacy inside the ring should be a separate issue from his activities (positive and negative) outside the ring. Do you see how that works, caldo? That is not what you communicated in your original post. You told everyone to weigh his overall legacy, inside and outside the ring, together like you have in order to find it in our hearts to forgive BHop for previous transgressions.

BHop's boxing legacy should not depend on your (or anyone's) judgement of his personal and professional life outside the ring. He does not need your forgiveness of his outside the ring activities in order to be considered an ATG.

BHop may end up an ATG outside the ring too, but that is a completely separate issue from what he has accomplished inside the ropes.

Very eloquently stated and I agree 100%.

I don't even have anything against Caldo or anyone on this forum for that matter but we cannot sum up a man's life by one mistake he's made, especially when that said person hasn't made the same mistake ever again in their life.

If you don't like BHop for whatever reason be it the "White boy" comment then just say so and we will understand your dislike and frustration for the man and why you don't want to rate him highly. Nothing wrong with having your biases no matter how irrational they are but don't bother to question one's response to your banter if you open up the can of worms.

Did Bhop have a career of fighting Tomato Cans? No more so than JLC Sr, no more so than all these other fighters with lengthy records of nobodies who went on to do nothing more but be contenders, pretenders or neverhasbeens so whether you think he does deserve to be placed highly or not, the fact of the matter is that it isn't up to you.

History will be kind to him because they will remember his legacy in the ring, the Oldest Champion, longest reigning MW Champion in history, Lineal LHW Champion and a span of about 10 years as a P4P fighter. I'm sure when he's inducted into the HOF that they won't hold his stupid mistake he made as a young boy against him.

49/Tanz,

I think that you both are just making this harder than it should be. All of the other posters on this OP understood what the discussion was about and offered up fantastic opinions. Maybe it was my writing or maybe it was your dislike trying to find something to pick a part. I realize words reading on a page can be interpreted in many ways and it appears that you two have a different interpretation of the subject matter that I had intended.

This was cut out of the OP and this was the direct question I was trying to have people consider:

But where would you place Bhop in the greatest of all time discussion? Please not only consider what he did inside the ring for the sport of Boxing but also consider what he continues to do for it outside the ring as a promoter and part owner of Golden Boy.

As you can see above, i'm specific about the two factors (Boxing in the ring, Promoting outside of it). Not that you care, but i didn't ask you to consider his comments or crimes, just what he did for boxing and where he sits historically for the sport of Boxing. IMO and the HOF criteria agrees with it, it's not just the boxing in the ring to consider when are considering greatness. It's all about everything they've done for boxing and in boxing. Maybe that could have been more clear but i never claimed to be a strong writer.

Lastly, my first comment in the OP was my answer to the OP's question and explained how he turned me into a huge fan and a person that considers him one of top 25 most important/greatest in the history of the sport. This is no different than what you both replied with in your opinins. Maybe you don't like when a person answers his own OP's question, that's fine. I personally like when OP's do it because I like for an OP to have more details and opinions. If you don't, then you don't.

So i'm moving on now and saving the rest of Boxrec people from more of these silly exchanges and the unentertaining theme it brings. But as a white person, that Bhop comment he made about never losing to a whitey was one of the funniest things he's ever said and i loved it. Most people loved it and found it entertaining and it doesn't affect Bhops legacy in the last IMO. In fact, it's the first time someone's brought it up to me in many years. None issue.

[ImranSarwar]

!

^ ^ who ever THAT is, DUDE NOT WORTH EVEN READING! 'B'Hop put all that PAIN into his personal GAIN.. & that guy has a .04 comparative substance reading and he is "King Judge" for Hopkins career! Maybe the bloat has SKILL and TALENT in certain AVENUES.I DON'T KNOW! BUT HERE/ and now he is WAY OVER STEPPING! Hopkins is a absolute monster and KING next to your every day pea-body! "Good God". SURE ARCHIE MOORE! But.....he can't KNOW these things! Archie have a lot of "mystery" in his RECORD, too! John Wilkinson BoxRec 1855

[Tanzio]

First you criticize both of us for not reading your posts thoroughly. Now you accuse us of having the audacity to "examine every word" of your posts.

You are a confused puppy, caldo.

You need to thoroughly examine your own posts, before you projectile vomit them upon all of us, to be sure that you are actually communicating clearly. You opened up BHop's outside the ring activities to consideration relative to his legacy, not us. When you naively (or otherwise) did so race issues came into play.

Therefore, you brought the racially charged issues to the table, ignorantly or otherwise. You are responsible for what you say in your posts here. You need to have the nutz to defend your position or to admit when you are wrong.

But you are like a high school freshman explaining the poor grade that he has received on his first creative writing paper to his parents with "that's how I wanted to say it. I don't care what others think. I didn't write it for them. I wrote it for myself. People are just too stupid to understand."

BHop's legacy inside the ring should be a separate issue from his activities (positive and negative) outside the ring. Do you see how that works, caldo? That is not what you communicated in your original post. You told everyone to weigh his overall legacy, inside and outside the ring, together like you have in order to find it in our hearts to forgive BHop for previous transgressions.

BHop's boxing legacy should not depend on your (or anyone's) judgement of his personal and professional life outside the ring. He does not need your forgiveness of his outside the ring activities in order to be considered an ATG.

BHop may end up an ATG outside the ring too, but that is a completely separate issue from what he has accomplished inside the ropes.

Very eloquently stated and I agree 100%.

I don't even have anything against Caldo or anyone on this forum for that matter but we cannot sum up a man's life by one mistake he's made, especially when that said person hasn't made the same mistake ever again in their life.

If you don't like BHop for whatever reason be it the "White boy" comment then just say so and we will understand your dislike and frustration for the man and why you don't want to rate him highly. Nothing wrong with having your biases no matter how irrational they are but don't bother to question one's response to your banter if you open up the can of worms.

Did Bhop have a career of fighting Tomato Cans? No more so than JLC Sr, no more so than all these other fighters with lengthy records of nobodies who went on to do nothing more but be contenders, pretenders or neverhasbeens so whether you think he does deserve to be placed highly or not, the fact of the matter is that it isn't up to you.

History will be kind to him because they will remember his legacy in the ring, the Oldest Champion, longest reigning MW Champion in history, Lineal LHW Champion and a span of about 10 years as a P4P fighter. I'm sure when he's inducted into the HOF that they won't hold his stupid mistake he made as a young boy against him.

49/Tanz,

I think that you both are just making this harder than it should be. All of the other posters on this OP understood what the discussion was about and offered up fantastic opinions. Maybe it was my writing or maybe it was your dislike trying to find something to pick a part. I realize words reading on a page can be interpreted in many ways and it appears that you two have a different interpretation of the subject matter that I had intended.

This was cut out of the OP and this was the direct question I was trying to have people consider:

But where would you place Bhop in the greatest of all time discussion? Please not only consider what he did inside the ring for the sport of Boxing but also consider what he continues to do for it outside the ring as a promoter and part owner of Golden Boy.

As you can see above, i'm specific about the two factors (Boxing in the ring, Promoting outside of it). Not that you care, but i didn't ask you to consider his comments or crimes, just what he did for boxing and where he sits historically for the sport of Boxing. IMO and the HOF criteria agrees with it, it's not just the boxing in the ring to consider when are considering greatness. It's all about everything they've done for boxing and in boxing. Maybe that could have been more clear but i never claimed to be a strong writer.

Lastly, my first comment in the OP was my answer to the OP's question and explained how he turned me into a huge fan and a person that considers him one of top 25 most important/greatest in the history of the sport. This is no different than what you both replied with in your opinins. Maybe you don't like when a person answers his own OP's question, that's fine. I personally like when OP's do it because I like for an OP to have more details and opinions. If you don't, then you don't.

So i'm moving on now and saving the rest of Boxrec people from more of these silly exchanges and the unentertaining theme it brings. But as a white person, that Bhop comment he made about never losing to a whitey was one of the funniest things he's ever said and i loved it. Most people loved it and found it entertaining and it doesn't affect Bhops legacy in the last IMO. In fact, it's the first time someone's brought it up to me in many years. None issue.

First of all, your quote is out of context. Secondly, turB and I are pretty much the only ones who have accurately addressed your OP. Pretty much every other post has ignored your request.

I appreciate your explanation. My original post was not offensive in any sense. I just took the opportunity to agree with him, since that happens so rarely.

BHop is a boxing GOAT, IMO. He also appears to be a relatively astute businessman.

Those two subjects are mutually exclusive, IMO.

That ends my participation in this thread.

Enjoy your day!

[Undefeated49-0]

49/Tanz, I think that you both are just making this harder than it should be. All of the other posters on this OP understood what the discussion was about and offered up fantastic opinions. Maybe it was my writing or maybe it was your dislike trying to find something to pick a part. I realize words reading on a page can be interpreted in many ways and it appears that you two have a different interpretation of the subject matter that I had intended.

This was cut out of the OP and this was the direct question I was trying to have people consider:

But where would you place Bhop in the greatest of all time discussion? Please not only consider what he did inside the ring for the sport of Boxing but also consider what he continues to do for it outside the ring as a promoter and part owner of Golden Boy.

As you can see above, i'm specific about the two factors (Boxing in the ring, Promoting outside of it). Not that you care, but i didn't ask you to consider his comments or crimes, just what he did for boxing and where he sits historically for the sport of Boxing. IMO and the HOF criteria agrees with it, it's not just the boxing in the ring to consider when are considering greatness. It's all about everything they've done for boxing and in boxing. Maybe that could have been more clear but i never claimed to be a strong writer.

Lastly, my first comment in the OP was my answer to the OP's question and explained how he turned me into a huge fan and a person that considers him one of top 25 most important/greatest in the history of the sport. This is no different than what you both replied with in your opinins. Maybe you don't like when a person answers his own OP's question, that's fine. I personally like when OP's do it because I like for an OP to have more details and opinions. If you don't, then you don't.

So i'm moving on now and saving the rest of Boxrec people from more of these silly exchanges and the unentertaining theme it brings. But as a white person, that Bhop comment he made about never losing to a whitey was one of the funniest things he's ever said and i loved it. Most people loved it and found it entertaining and it doesn't affect Bhops legacy in the last IMO. In fact, it's the first time someone's brought it up to me in many years. None issue.

My intent was never to make this hard but to merely address the entire article you imposed on us, I think that part of your content could've been best left out and I wouldn't have had anything to say about it and I don't consider this a silly exchange. We are here to discuss boxing and boxing matters so if you include what a boxer has done outside the ring then that part is up for discussion as well.

As I've stated before, I have nothing against you or anyone on this forum. Sure people here do not like me and that's ok but I take nothing from this forum personally, it's all in a matter of entertainment and fun IMHO. We have our differences of opinion on everything and when I say "we" I mean all of us and that's ok but we should learn to respect the opinion of others even if we don't agree with it.

Have a great weekend.

[SFW]

I rank Hopkins as one of the best middleweights of all time, probably around the 5th spot. I do think the Calzaghe decision was right and he gave that fight away because he couldn't keep the pace, but it was razor thin.Fast athletic guys and high workrates could trouble him but even his toughest opponents were in for a tough night. Cheers to a living legend, that's a smart MF

[caldo2025]

49/Tanz, I think that you both are just making this harder than it should be. All of the other posters on this OP understood what the discussion was about and offered up fantastic opinions. Maybe it was my writing or maybe it was your dislike trying to find something to pick a part. I realize words reading on a page can be interpreted in many ways and it appears that you two have a different interpretation of the subject matter that I had intended.

This was cut out of the OP and this was the direct question I was trying to have people consider:

But where would you place Bhop in the greatest of all time discussion? Please not only consider what he did inside the ring for the sport of Boxing but also consider what he continues to do for it outside the ring as a promoter and part owner of Golden Boy.

As you can see above, i'm specific about the two factors (Boxing in the ring, Promoting outside of it). Not that you care, but i didn't ask you to consider his comments or crimes, just what he did for boxing and where he sits historically for the sport of Boxing. IMO and the HOF criteria agrees with it, it's not just the boxing in the ring to consider when are considering greatness. It's all about everything they've done for boxing and in boxing. Maybe that could have been more clear but i never claimed to be a strong writer.

Lastly, my first comment in the OP was my answer to the OP's question and explained how he turned me into a huge fan and a person that considers him one of top 25 most important/greatest in the history of the sport. This is no different than what you both replied with in your opinins. Maybe you don't like when a person answers his own OP's question, that's fine. I personally like when OP's do it because I like for an OP to have more details and opinions. If you don't, then you don't.

So i'm moving on now and saving the rest of Boxrec people from more of these silly exchanges and the unentertaining theme it brings. But as a white person, that Bhop comment he made about never losing to a whitey was one of the funniest things he's ever said and i loved it. Most people loved it and found it entertaining and it doesn't affect Bhops legacy in the last IMO. In fact, it's the first time someone's brought it up to me in many years. None issue.

My intent was never to make this hard but to merely address the entire article you imposed on us, I think that part of your content could've been best left out and I wouldn't have had anything to say about it and I don't consider this a silly exchange. We are here to discuss boxing and boxing matters so if you include what a boxer has done outside the ring then that part is up for discussion as well.

As I've stated before, I have nothing against you or anyone on this forum. Sure people here do not like me and that's ok but I take nothing from this forum personally, it's all in a matter of entertainment and fun IMHO. We have our differences of opinion on everything and when I say "we" I mean all of us and that's ok but we should learn to respect the opinion of others even if we don't agree with it.

Have a great weekend.

It's all good 49/Tanz...we are all passionate for Boxing and how feel about it so there's nothing wrong with a little fire now and then. Take care.

[ImranSarwar]

[quote= rank Hopkins]as one of the best middleweights of all time, probably around the 5th spot. I do think the Calzaghe decision was right and he gave that fight away because he couldn't keep the pace, but it was razor thin.Fast athletic guys and high workrates could trouble him but even his toughest opponents were in for a tough night. Cheers to a living legend, that's a smart/quote]
Hopkins 5th spot then put the names down for his sides! : ) You know.....by GOD of the Earth & the Heavens that we actually can't firmly determine this question. But, "wow" he is one marvelous & great strength history/m div. and the a.t. Lb4lb. Talk for a min his "other contributions" to the INSTITUTION OF THE SPORT.
I mean..isn't THAT a 1 part of the question of THIS STREAM!??
"I THINK" that Golden Boy, BOB ARUM, Bernard the Hopping-man..... and ALL of the promoters today pretty much ("aba group with Dean Smith may VERY WELL....."BE ONE EXCEPTION!)[&...they are dealing alone for USA/AMERICAN Championships!] are...."spoofed".
I'll LIKE TO FIND A FEW GOOD PEOPLE IN BOXING WITH MY MIND! And then, we get our high out on everyone else too! : )
Including B'Hop & Oscar and "all them other guys, too!"
Look please at the BoxRec forum stream: "Open talk; stress on boxing administration in modern".
-OR- "stay spoofed", keep working to UNDO OUR GREAT SPORT/the Institution.
We "gotta refine" our Government within the SPORT -OR- we gonna continue to THIN OUT. Read that stream with urgent "CARE", please.

[Undefeated49-0]

as one of the best middleweights of all time, probably around the 5th spot. I do think the Calzaghe decision was right and he gave that fight away because he couldn't keep the pace, but it was razor thin.Fast athletic guys and high workrates could trouble him but even his toughest opponents were in for a tough night. Cheers to a living legend, that's a smart/quote]
Hopkins 5th spot then put the names down for his sides! : ) You know.....by GOD of the Earth & the Heavens that we actually can't firmly determine this question. But, "wow" he is one marvelous & great strength history/m div. and the a.t. Lb4lb. Talk for a min his "other contributions" to the INSTITUTION OF THE SPORT.
I mean..isn't THAT a 1 part of the question of THIS STREAM!??
"I THINK" that Golden Boy, BOB ARUM, Bernard the Hopping-man..... and ALL of the promoters today pretty much ("aba group with Dean Smith may VERY WELL....."BE ONE EXCEPTION!)[&...they are dealing alone for USA/AMERICAN Championships!] are...."spoofed".
I'll LIKE TO FIND A FEW GOOD PEOPLE IN BOXING WITH MY MIND! And then, we get our high out on everyone else too! : )
Including B'Hop & Oscar and "all them other guys, too!"
Look please at the BoxRec forum stream: "Open talk; stress on boxing administration in modern".
-OR- "stay spoofed", keep working to UNDO OUR GREAT SPORT/the Institution.
We "gotta refine" our Government within the SPORT -OR- we gonna continue to THIN OUT. Read that stream with urgent "CARE", please.

Looks like a bunch of jibberish to me, care to define what it is you are trying to say??

[ImranSarwar]

^ ^ No! : ) [see YOU viewing John Wilkinson Self promotion stream earlier (few hours ago, less?) today] >> Pay attention! <<

[Undefeated49-0]

^ ^ No! : ) [see YOU viewing John Wilkinson Self promotion stream earlier (few hours ago, less?) today] >> Pay attention! <<

WTF?? Dude you are making absolutely no sense whatsoever.

[ImranSarwar]

^ ^ No! : ) [see YOU viewing John Wilkinson Self promotion stream earlier (few hours ago, less?) today] >> Pay attention! <<

WTF?? Dude you are making absolutely no sense whatsoever.

You was!