Tyson Was Truly The Last Great Heavyweight

[Tomasino]

i tell you what would be really fascinating, I wonder what Red Auerbach's reaction to a fight between Wilt and lovelette would be?

I would just about poo a kidney if someone could uncover such a gem of information, that would really complete the picture.

[Kalan]

Chamberlain played many more years... Lovellette never played another NBA game against Wilt.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Chamberlain played many more years... Lovellette never played another NBA game against Wilt.

[BoxBuzz]

i tell you what would be really fascinating, I wonder what Red Auerbach's reaction to a fight between Wilt and lovelette would be?

I would just about poo a kidney if someone could uncover such a gem of information, that would really complete the picture.

you just know ABC has the Cosell-Auerbach interview on tape.....but it's locked up...tied up in the courts. We'll never see it. Because in it is a lot of boxing related information re: Wilt.

Too hot for public consumption. Until the year 2053

[Tomasino]

i tell you what would be really fascinating, I wonder what Red Auerbach's reaction to a fight between Wilt and lovelette would be?

I would just about poo a kidney if someone could uncover such a gem of information, that would really complete the picture.

you just know ABC has the Cosell-Auerbach interview on tape.....but it's locked up...tied up in the courts. We'll never see it. Because in it is a lot of boxing related information re: Wilt.

Too hot for public consumption. Until the year 2053

Wilt who? I mean this is a boxing forum isn't it? I tend to forget these days with Buzz/Kalan/Duce running things

[BoxBuzz]

Tomasino..... I shall now follow your lead, with no further BB, or WC references. This is after all, a boxing forum. And the gentle flowers that visit here do not deserve the rabid imposition of whimsy, irrelevance, sidebar hobknoberries, or devolution of focus.

[Kalan]

On the other hand.. The Chamberlain vs Ali Fight contract was drawn up as a Heavyweight Championship Boxing match that fans were extremely excited about actually seeing.. Presumably they weren't doing the Wilt and Ali TV interviews and hype ballyhoo for nothing -- were they????

IF Ali signed the contact it was a go.. That's why Chamberlain always kept a pen on hand as they did interviews.. Hoping Ali would live up to his word and his end of the bargain: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF57P1uUG0s

[Tomasino]

Tomasino..... I shall now follow your lead, with no further BB, or WC references. This is after all, a boxing forum. And the gentle flowers that visit here do not deserve the rabid imposition of whimsy, irrelevance, sidebar hobknoberries, or devolution of focus.

edit: drunken post

[Kalan]

At least Buzz talks Boxing on occasion.. Tomasino is devoid of thought and only utters banalities.

[Counter-puncher]

[Tuan_Jim]

Tyson was certainly the last heavyweight to benefit, in the 80s, from having the unanimous cooperation of promoters, sanctioning bodies and TV.

It's so difficult to make sense of the 90s because logical fights weren't made due to warring channels and promoters protecting their interest. Could Bowe with everyone behind him have had a long dominant reign? Or would he always have eaten himself out of greatness? Could Lewis' arrogance and chin survive a series of bouts with prime Bowe and Holyfield, a still fast, pre-Holyfield Tyson? Would Moorer with his power throw a spanner in the works somewhere? The only man to emerge from the 90s mess as unquestionably great was Holyfield. The others I think have questions hanging over them.

[Syntax Error]

He wasn't frightening on his comeback, although Frank Bruno might disagree with me.

He fought bums or guys who were only interested in a payday.

The supposed washed up Holyfield stripped him of any aura he had left at that stage.

[Tuan_Jim]

It took Holyfield to beat the fight out of him. He was fast and very dangerous early - I think the Lewis of that period would have caught something. Mercer was already roughing him up by rd 2. In hindsight Holyfield was absolutely the worst possible opponent for Tyson. Not sure anyone else in 96 does what he did.

[littlepug]

Tyson was the best Heavyweight who got knocked out 5 times...

He was the best Heavyweight with a leaky defense who got beaten to trash by a 42-1 underdog...

He was the best Heavyweight with short arms and a small bod that allowed Douglas, Lewis, and Holyfield (who were all older than Tyson) to hit him at will

As soon as Tyson fought somebody who was bigger, taller, faster, stronger, smarter, better conditioned, and better prepared, he got beaten...

A lot of Heavyweights around today meet those requirements -- starting with Joshua and Ortiz who would both murder Tyson like those other guys did...

wow you really do rate joshua dont you? have watched joshua since the olympics and i honestly cant see what you do, just another bruno until he proves otherwise, think your putting too much faith in stats/percentages which is the wrong way to go about things, oh and tyson v joshua ? joshua would be very lucky to make it through the first round, skills pay the bills mate and tyson was light years ahead in that area

[Tomasino]

Tyson was the best Heavyweight who got knocked out 5 times...

He was the best Heavyweight with a leaky defense who got beaten to trash by a 42-1 underdog...

He was the best Heavyweight with short arms and a small bod that allowed Douglas, Lewis, and Holyfield (who were all older than Tyson) to hit him at will

As soon as Tyson fought somebody who was bigger, taller, faster, stronger, smarter, better conditioned, and better prepared, he got beaten...

A lot of Heavyweights around today meet those requirements -- starting with Joshua and Ortiz who would both murder Tyson like those other guys did...

wow you really do rate joshua dont you? have watched joshua since the olympics and i honestly cant see what you do, just another bruno until he proves otherwise, think your putting too much faith in stats/percentages which is the wrong way to go about things, oh and tyson v joshua ? joshua would be very lucky to make it through the first round, skills pay the bills mate and tyson was light years ahead in that area

You've got to bear in mind mate this guy is saying Luis Ortiz would destroy Joe Louis

[littlepug]

Tyson was the best Heavyweight who got knocked out 5 times...

He was the best Heavyweight with a leaky defense who got beaten to trash by a 42-1 underdog...

He was the best Heavyweight with short arms and a small bod that allowed Douglas, Lewis, and Holyfield (who were all older than Tyson) to hit him at will

As soon as Tyson fought somebody who was bigger, taller, faster, stronger, smarter, better conditioned, and better prepared, he got beaten...

A lot of Heavyweights around today meet those requirements -- starting with Joshua and Ortiz who would both murder Tyson like those other guys did...

wow you really do rate joshua dont you? have watched joshua since the olympics and i honestly cant see what you do, just another bruno until he proves otherwise, think your putting too much faith in stats/percentages which is the wrong way to go about things, oh and tyson v joshua ? joshua would be very lucky to make it through the first round, skills pay the bills mate and tyson was light years ahead in that area

You've got to bear in mind mate this guy is saying Luis Ortiz would destroy Joe Louis

ha ha yeah i suppose im banging my head against a brick wall trying to talk sense to this guy

[Kalan]

wow you really do rate joshua dont you? have watched joshua since the olympics and i honestly cant see what you do, just another bruno until he proves otherwise, think your putting too much faith in stats/percentages which is the wrong way to go about things, oh and tyson v joshua ? joshua would be very lucky to make it through the first round, skills pay the bills mate and tyson was light years ahead in that area

You've got to bear in mind mate this guy is saying Luis Ortiz would destroy Joe Louis

ha ha yeah i suppose im banging my head against a brick wall trying to talk sense to this guy

That reminds me... Joshua put a much higher percentage of his victims to sleep than Louis did. 100% vs 75%.

There was a general lack of national and international competition in Louis's day. Less than a year into his car he slaughtered Primo Carnera. 14 months into his career he easily punched holes in wild swinging recent World Champion Max Baer. Less then 2 years into his career Louis was knocked out by an aging Max Schmeling -- demonstrating that Louis was seriously flawed, dropping his left hand and inviting right hand counters.

Joshua has no such vulnerabilities. So while Louis was a great Heavyweight for his day, the term "Bum of the month club" was invented to describe the caliber of opponent he fought. You can't point to a single Heavyweight (Conn was a Light Heavyweight) Louis fought in his prime who was a great boxer-puncher the caliber of a Joshua, Klitschko, Ortiz etc... Conn was not a puncher or he would have gotten Louis out.

[BoxBuzz]

Big surprise that Kalan and I have different opinions here. I think Mike's weakness was his psyche, his mental attitude, and it went south pretty quick when he experienced the "behavior plan" of life (the loss of Cus) and of course, jail, where he was no longer the big boss.

I know he still had a few good showings, but the game was over when he started having those self doubts. It even changed his ability to absorb punishment, and stay cool in the ring.

I think Holyfield was the better fighter....so I'm not sure Tyson would have beaten him at their mutual peaks. But when the chips were down, Tyson could not come back from a deficit.


And that, and perhaps that alone, prevents him from being in the top tier. Leaky Defense? Ok, but when he was supremely confident, he had the combination of ferocity, and fire in the gut, to succeed in spite of that skill deficit. But that skill deficit became far more problematic when he lost the nearly cartoonish belief in himself, and became more of a talker, and less of a walker.

[Syntax Error]

I think Tyson knew his number was up when he had to employ that idiot in the camoflauge jacket & the sunglasses to go round shouting at all & sundry about how great & ferocious Tyson is.

Prior to that, Tyson never needed a hired stooge to tell everyone how menacing he was; he just knew it!

[BoxBuzz]

I think Tyson knew his number was up when he had to employ that idiot in the camoflauge jacket & the sunglasses to go round shouting at all & sundry about how great & ferocious Tyson is.

Prior to that, Tyson never needed a hired stooge to tell everyone how menacing he was; he just knew it!

Hear Here!

[Kalan]

Big surprise that Kalan and I have different opinions here. I think Mike's weakness was his psyche, his mental attitude, and it went south pretty quick when he experienced the "behavior plan" of life (the loss of Cus) and of course, jail, where he was no longer the big boss.

I know he still had a few good showings, but the game was over when he started having those self doubts. It even changed his ability to absorb punishment, and stay cool in the ring.

I think Holyfield was the better fighter....so I'm not sure Tyson would have beaten him at their mutual peaks. But when the chips were down, Tyson could not come back from a deficit.


And that, and perhaps that alone, prevents him from being in the top tier. Leaky Defense? Ok, but when he was supremely confident, he had the combination of ferocity, and fire in the gut, to succeed in spite of that skill deficit. But that skill deficit became far more problematic when he lost the nearly cartoonish belief in himself, and became more of a talker, and less of a walker.

The psyche and "cartoonish belief in himself" Tyson had came from the poor competition: Holmes was old and rusty... Spinks had a Light Heavyweight's frame... Berbick was extremely hittable... Tucker was big, tall, and tough, but he had little heart or drive to achieve... Douglas had the raw material to be a great boxer. His dad was a professional boxer who taught Buster how to box, but he couldn't instill a work ethic and said he failed Buster in that regard.

Douglas was as lazy lout who was inspired by the pedestrian Tyson-Tucker fight. Douglas thought Tyson would destroy Tucker quickly. The fight energized Douglas and he told everybody he could beat Tyson.. The more people told him he was on crack and laughed at him the angrier Buster got.. His life mission became to beat Mike Tyson, which he was certain he could do... After he beat Tyson he went back to being Buster Douglas.

Holyfield and Lewis had something on common with Douglas.. They knew the could beat Tyson -- but they also thought they could beat anybody.

[hhaehre]

Chamberlain played many more years... Lovellette never played another NBA game against Wilt.

And then Wilt died. His body just gave out on him, maybe because he never fully recovered from the beating Mr. Lovellette laid on him. Clyde on the other hand, lived a long and prosperous life. Died with his own teeth as I understand it.

[Cutman Scabbers]

did Wilt ever say 'left turn, Clyde' to him? that would be some funny poo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i98QrSSHxo4

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

Tyson was certainly the last heavyweight to benefit, in the 80s, from having the unanimous cooperation of promoters, sanctioning bodies and TV.

It's so difficult to make sense of the 90s because logical fights weren't made due to warring channels and promoters protecting their interest. Could Bowe with everyone behind him have had a long dominant reign? Or would he always have eaten himself out of greatness? Could Lewis' arrogance and chin survive a series of bouts with prime Bowe and Holyfield, a still fast, pre-Holyfield Tyson? Would Moorer with his power throw a spanner in the works somewhere? The only man to emerge from the 90s mess as unquestionably great was Holyfield. The others I think have questions hanging over them.

- Well now jimmy, it only appears a mystery to you and yours that a dimwit like Bowe could ever have more than a one fight prime in spite of having huge hbo$ and Eddie Futch behind him.

Lewis title record 15-2-1 and unified 4 belts. Tyson the first to unify 4 belts was 12-4 but 10-0 of that was his first historically unprecedented run where he scarcely lost a rd or failed to notch a ko.

Clearly the lessers were PED guzzling Field and grub inhaling Dummy at 10-7-2 and 5-1. Neither ever unified, but like many club fighters had their diehard legions.

Unfortunately lewis the lion sold 2 belts to DKing and retired as a soiled lamb days before his 3rd strippage after sitting on his last belt to milk out his claim as champ, so while I rank Tyson over him, at least he's in the debate.

The lessers are always gonna be lessers like their delusional fans, no doubt descendent from the rowdy fans of the late no so great Marvin Hart.

[Tomasino]

Tyson was certainly the last heavyweight to benefit, in the 80s, from having the unanimous cooperation of promoters, sanctioning bodies and TV.

It's so difficult to make sense of the 90s because logical fights weren't made due to warring channels and promoters protecting their interest. Could Bowe with everyone behind him have had a long dominant reign? Or would he always have eaten himself out of greatness? Could Lewis' arrogance and chin survive a series of bouts with prime Bowe and Holyfield, a still fast, pre-Holyfield Tyson? Would Moorer with his power throw a spanner in the works somewhere? The only man to emerge from the 90s mess as unquestionably great was Holyfield. The others I think have questions hanging over them.

- Well now jimmy, it only appears a mystery to you and yours that a dimwit like Bowe could ever have more than a one fight prime in spite of having huge hbo$ and Eddie Futch behind him.

Lewis title record 15-2-1 and unified 4 belts. Tyson the first to unify 4 belts was 12-4 but 10-0 of that was his first historically unprecedented run where he scarcely lost a rd or failed to notch a ko.

Clearly the lessers were PED guzzling Field and grub inhaling Dummy at 10-7-2 and 5-1. Neither ever unified, but like many club fighters had their diehard legions.

Unfortunately lewis the lion sold 2 belts to DKing and retired as a soiled lamb days before his 3rd strippage after sitting on his last belt to milk out his claim as champ, so while I rank Tyson over him, at least he's in the debate.

The lessers are always gonna be lessers like their delusional fans, no doubt descendent from the rowdy fans of the late no so great Marvin Hart.

Very lucid. Your meds have some effect I see. Not a positive one however.