Joe Frazier (FOTC) vs Riddick Bowe (Holyfield I)

[keithmoonhangover]

The circumstances:
1. The fight was the most anticipated fight in history. What does that have to do with his performance?
2. Ali and Frazier were undefeated. It was the FIRST TIME that two undefeated champions were at it.
3. The fight exceeded the expectations in this unforgettable night. People got their money's worth that is for sure.
4. The performances of both gladiators were in another level. Smokin' Joe and The Greatest were super terrific that night.
5. There will never be a fight to top that magical night. That will NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN.

1. What does that have to do with his performance?
2. Not the case. At heavyweight, but not the FIRST TIME two undefeated champions fought.
5. It's impossible to predict is that will still be the case for the rest of history?

Believe it. The Fight of the Century will never be surpassed. The performance of both fighters were for the ages. And the climax and anticipation was something that will never happen again.

Just answer this one.....

How does it being an anticipated fight have anything to o with Frazier's performance?

[SenorPipino]

Have to agree with elmersalsa.

There will never be a FOTC like Ali-Frazier 1.

Was anyone really all that excited about our last FOTC between Mayweather and Pacquiao?

You figured it would be a ho-hum battle and it certainly lived down to those expectations

Only sports fans and Filipinos really cared about Mayweather-Pac. The rest of the planet barely noticed it.

That's not true about Ali-Frazier. The world was watching, primarily because Ali was a deposed icon who leaped from the sports pages to the news pages in the 60s.

Love him or hate him, everyone knew who he was. Ali was indeed the most famous man on the planet.

And he was going against an undefeated kayo artist, who represented maybe the first legitimate threat to Ali since Liston.

And of course there was the racial and political angle, where the stoic Frazier represented the era's establishment, and the flamboyant, controversial Ali was the darling of the younger generation and most blacks.

March 8, 1971. There will never be another night like that. NEVER.

[elmersalsa]

1. What does that have to do with his performance?
2. Not the case. At heavyweight, but not the FIRST TIME two undefeated champions fought.
5. It's impossible to predict is that will still be the case for the rest of history?

Believe it. The Fight of the Century will never be surpassed. The performance of both fighters were for the ages. And the climax and anticipation was something that will never happen again.

Just answer this one.....

How does it being an anticipated fight have anything to o with Frazier's performance?

It got a lot to do with it. Have you ever seen the fight?

[elmersalsa]

Have to agree with elmersalsa.

There will never be a FOTC like Ali-Frazier 1.

Was anyone really all that excited about our last FOTC between Mayweather and Pacquiao?

You figured it would be a ho-hum battle and it certainly lived down to those expectations

Only sports fans and Filipinos really cared about Mayweather-Pac. The rest of the planet barely noticed it.

That's not true about Ali-Frazier. The world was watching, primarily because Ali was a deposed icon who leaped from the sports pages to the news pages in the 60s.

Love him or hate him, everyone knew who he was. Ali was indeed the most famous man on the planet.

And he was going against an undefeated kayo artist, who represented maybe the first legitimate threat to Ali since Liston.

And of course there was the racial and political angle, where the stoic Frazier represented the era's establishment, and the flamboyant, controversial Ali was the darling of the younger generation and most blacks.

March 8, 1971. There will never be another night like that. NEVER.

You eloquently said the right things, SenorPipino!

[Tomasino]

Smokin' Joe was a monster against The Greatest in FOTC and Jerry Quarry in their first fight.

To me, Smokin' Joe's performance in FOTC was the best performance of all-time, due to the circumstances.

What circumstances?

The circumstances:
1. The fight was the most anticipated fight in history.
2. Ali and Frazier were undefeated. It was the FIRST TIME that two undefeated champions were at it.
3. The fight exceeded the expectations in this unforgettable night. People got their money's worth that is for sure.
4. The performances of both gladiators were in another level. Smokin' Joe and The Greatest were super terrific that night.
5. There will never be a fight to top that magical night. That will NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN.

Good post Elmer. The pressure on both fighters was incredible and they surpassed all expectations with their performances.

[keithmoonhangover]

Believe it. The Fight of the Century will never be surpassed. The performance of both fighters were for the ages. And the climax and anticipation was something that will never happen again.

Just answer this one.....

How does it being an anticipated fight have anything to o with Frazier's performance?

It got a lot to do with it. Have you ever seen the fight?

Yes, I've seen the fight. You didn't answer my question. How does it being an anticipated fight have anything to o with Frazier's performance

[elmersalsa]

Just answer this one.....

How does it being an anticipated fight have anything to o with Frazier's performance?

It got a lot to do with it. Have you ever seen the fight?

Yes, I've seen the fight. You didn't answer my question. How does it being an anticipated fight have anything to o with Frazier's performance

It means that Smokin' Joe performed when the stakes where higher and bigger than life. He trained very hard for the fight. He was fighting one of the greatest boxers ever, the media attention was unbelievable an the name of the fight, FOTC, captured the imagination of the public. Plus, it was the FIRST TIME that two fighters were collecting $2 million dollars! A record payday for any fighter at the time. Plus, the stage was set in the most famous boxing arena: Madison Square Garden in New York City. It could not be better than that.

[keithmoonhangover]

It got a lot to do with it. Have you ever seen the fight?

Yes, I've seen the fight. You didn't answer my question. How does it being an anticipated fight have anything to o with Frazier's performance

It means that Smokin' Joe performed when the stakes where higher and bigger than life.

The stakes were bigger than life? Really? I think you need to calm down mate.

[Tomasino]

Yes, I've seen the fight. You didn't answer my question. How does it being an anticipated fight have anything to o with Frazier's performance

It means that Smokin' Joe performed when the stakes where higher and bigger than life.

The stakes were bigger than life? Really? I think you need to calm down mate.

I read it like they fought so hard they put their lives on the line. That's certainly how Frazier fought in the FOC.

[elmersalsa]

Yes, I've seen the fight. You didn't answer my question. How does it being an anticipated fight have anything to o with Frazier's performance

It means that Smokin' Joe performed when the stakes where higher and bigger than life.

The stakes were bigger than life? Really? I think you need to calm down mate.

That fight meant a lot for the great Joe Frazier. On that night, he was Smokin'!
It was the greatest win in boxing history in my book. The biggest and most anticipated fight ever. Smokin' Joe became an all time great automatically with that win whether it was pound per pound or heavyweight ranking criteria. The way he fought and won the fight, was surreal.

[elmersalsa]

It means that Smokin' Joe performed when the stakes where higher and bigger than life.

The stakes were bigger than life? Really? I think you need to calm down mate.

I read it like they fought so hard they put their lives on the line. That's certainly how Frazier fought in the FOC.

He kicked The Greatest ass!

[keithmoonhangover]

It means that Smokin' Joe performed when the stakes where higher and bigger than life.

The stakes were bigger than life? Really? I think you need to calm down mate.

That fight meant a lot for the great Joe Frazier. On that night, he was Smokin'!
It was the greatest win in boxing history in my book. The biggest and most anticipated fight ever. Smokin' Joe became an all time great automatically with that win whether it was pound per pound or heavyweight ranking criteria. The way he fought and won the fight, was surreal.

It was a great win, but come on, the stakes in no boxing match are ever 'higher and bigger than life'. Don't talk nonsense.

[Ambling Alp II]

The opponent that Bowe beat (at the time of fight) was better than the opponent that Frazier beat.

[elmersalsa]

The opponent that Bowe beat (at the time of fight) was better than the opponent that Frazier beat.

People will differ that opinion. At least Frazier's fans

[Tomasino]

The opponent that Bowe beat (at the time of fight) was better than the opponent that Frazier beat.

I think that's difficult to say...you really think Ali was faded? I think he was tougher, stronger and just as fast hands, but lost some foot speed. Still a great fighter at time of FOC

[elmersalsa]

The stakes were bigger than life? Really? I think you need to calm down mate.

That fight meant a lot for the great Joe Frazier. On that night, he was Smokin'!
It was the greatest win in boxing history in my book. The biggest and most anticipated fight ever. Smokin' Joe became an all time great automatically with that win whether it was pound per pound or heavyweight ranking criteria. The way he fought and won the fight, was surreal.

It was a great win, but come on, the stakes in no boxing match are ever 'higher and bigger than life'. Don't talk nonsense.

At least it felt like it. No other fight came close. I was only 2 years old. But, what I had seen of the videos and clips and the fight itself, I can feel the magic in the air of that fight. Just like when Brazil played the 1970 World Cup final with Italy. I was only 1 years old then. But watching that replay, and the surrounding events during that game, I could feel that it was a game bigger than life. At least it felt that way to a lot of people.

[Ambling Alp II]

The opponent that Bowe beat (at the time of fight) was better than the opponent that Frazier beat.

I think that's difficult to say...you really think Ali was faded? I think he was tougher, stronger and just as fast hands, but lost some foot speed. Still a great fighter at time of FOC

He was still rusty. Very rusty. He had only been back a few months after a 3 and half year layoff. Look at his fight right before that against Bonavena. Why would he be tougher? Don't see how he was stronger. His hand speed was not as good. His leg speed was only good in brief spurts. His stamina was much worse. He had to take off several rounds.

Evander Holyfield was in his absolute prime when Bowe beat him. He was not taking off rounds.

[BoxBuzz]

I think another small dynamic of this utterly amazing fight, is that the genuine winner (Frazier) also took the bigger beating.

He clearly won the fight none the less. But that's just one more rare dynamic of that one of a kind fight.

[elmersalsa]

I don't think that that "rusted" Ali would've lost to a prime Evander. I just can't see it.

[Kalan]

Smokin' Joe was a monster against The Greatest in FOTC and Jerry Quarry in their first fight.

To me, Smokin' Joe's performance in FOTC was the best performance of all-time, due to the circumstances.

What circumstances?

The circumstances:
1. The fight was the most anticipated fight in history.
2. Ali and Frazier were undefeated. It was the FIRST TIME that two undefeated champions were at it.
3. The fight exceeded the expectations in this unforgettable night. People got their money's worth that is for sure.
4. The performances of both gladiators were in another level. Smokin' Joe and The Greatest were super terrific that night.
5. There will never be a fight to top that magical night. That will NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN.

Ali laid on the ropes too much.. That told me he wasn't in the best shape and he looked a little fat.. He looked lighter, better, faster, and harder for Bonavena and Quarry. He fought better than Frazier did versus those 2.. Frazier ate a ton of punches vs Ali, and a harder hitter like Foreman would have stopped him early.. Frazier looked like he'd been in a train wreck after the fight; his head was massively swollen.. Ali was a sucker for left hooks his whole career and he looked like he was smuggling a cantaloupe in his right cheek by the end of the fight.. The left hook Frazier decked Ali with was a nice shot.. He ducked a lazy right by Ali and caught him in perfect rhythm in a classic counter, just like you draw it up.. If he were a big powerful Heavyweight like Ike Joshua or Ortiz, that shot would have iced Ali.. Frazier didn't follow up well when Ali got up, which amazed me.. He started celebrating his victory early.

I had Ali winning 8 rounds to 7. One judge obviously didn't like Ali and had an outrageously lopsided score.. It was a close fight.. In the modern 10-point system I would have had Frazier winning because of 2-point rounds in the 11th and 15th.. It was the best fight of their trilogy -- but I thought the fight was a very sloppy act of sheer defiance by both fighters.. It was a genuine grudge fight and Frazier's win was a colossal act of will.. Fights like that keep the fighter alert and conscious on sheer adrenaline. They'll sometimes fall like a dead horse because enmity is a powerful driving force.

[elmersalsa]

What circumstances?

The circumstances:
1. The fight was the most anticipated fight in history.
2. Ali and Frazier were undefeated. It was the FIRST TIME that two undefeated champions were at it.
3. The fight exceeded the expectations in this unforgettable night. People got their money's worth that is for sure.
4. The performances of both gladiators were in another level. Smokin' Joe and The Greatest were super terrific that night.
5. There will never be a fight to top that magical night. That will NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN.

Ali laid on the ropes too much.. That told me he wasn't in the best shape and he looked a little fat.. He looked lighter, better, faster, and harder for Bonavena and Quarry. He fought better than Frazier did versus those 2.. Frazier ate a ton of punches vs Ali, and a harder hitter like Foreman would have stopped him early.. Frazier looked like he'd been in a train wreck after the fight; his head was massively swollen.. Ali was a sucker for left hooks his whole career and he looked like he was smuggling a cantaloupe in his right cheek by the end of the fight.. The left hook Frazier decked Ali with was a nice shot.. He ducked a lazy right by Ali and caught him in perfect rhythm in a classic counter, just like you draw it up.. If he were a big powerful Heavyweight like Ike Joshua or Ortiz, that shot would have iced Ali.. Frazier didn't follow up well when Ali got up, which amazed me.. He started celebrating his victory early.

I had Ali winning 8 rounds to 7. One judge obviously didn't like Ali and had an outrageously lopsided score.. It was a close fight.. In the modern 10-point system I would have had Frazier winning because of 2-point rounds in the 11th and 15th.. It was the best fight of their trilogy -- but I thought the fight was a very sloppy act of sheer defiance by both fighters.. It was a genuine grudge fight and Frazier's win was a colossal act of will.. Fights like that keep the fighter alert and conscious on sheer adrenaline. They'll sometimes fall like a dead horse because enmity is a powerful driving force.

That fight was PRICELESS!

[Kalan]

It was a deadly serious effort by both guys... Not artistic, but dramatic.

[SenorPipino]

It got a lot to do with it. Have you ever seen the fight?

Yes, I've seen the fight. You didn't answer my question. How does it being an anticipated fight have anything to o with Frazier's performance

It means that Smokin' Joe performed when the stakes where higher and bigger than life. He trained very hard for the fight. He was fighting one of the greatest boxers ever, the media attention was unbelievable an the name of the fight, FOTC, captured the imagination of the public. Plus, it was the FIRST TIME that two fighters were collecting $2 million dollars! A record payday for any fighter at the time. Plus, the stage was set in the most famous boxing arena: Madison Square Garden in New York City. It could not be better than that.

Just a small correction....although maybe not so small if you're talking about 1971.

Both fighters made $2.5 million. In 1971, that extra $500,000 was a lot of extra money. Few fighters then, even great champions like a Monzon or Napoles earned a half million in a single night.

Today, a Pacquiao or Mayweather wouldn't even spar for $500,000.

Years later, Ali said that when all was said and did and done, he only cleared $450,000 from the fight.

New York State taxes on sports events were excessive at the time, and really cut into Ali and Frazier's final take.

Of course after deducting federal tax and paying management, Dundee and all the usual hangers-on (and let's not forget the devious Nation of Islam wanted its take too) Ali went home with a relatively paltry take from the FOTC.

[badkatt]

joe frazier .....

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I don't think that that "rusted" Ali would've lost to a prime Evander. I just can't see it.

Me either, that was as good as Ali ever was. Frazier was rusty coming off the broken ankle too. Didn't matter, they both produced their best.