GGG vs Hagler/Monzon etc

[Kalan]

Now when it comes to Carlos Monzon it's a different proposition... However I believe Golovkin would beat him also...

Rodrigo Valdez suffered several defeats in his career... but unlike Marvin Hagler he knocked out a young Benny Briscoe with 1 left hook -- Hagler couldn't even put an old Briscoe down... Valdez knocked Monzon to the canvas twice with right hands... Valdez put some great shots on Monzon's chin... He fought him tooth and nail for 15 rounds twice... Valdez wasn't as big, powerful, or skilled a Middleweight as Golovkin is -- so GGG would have landed a lot harder and more often on Monzon.

[elmersalsa]

Gennady Golovkin isn't Russian. He's Kazakhstani.

GGG has a much better jab and is a stronger attacker than Hagler. He's better defensively, has better feet, and is better at controlling the ring against boxers as well. The 36-0 Brook couldn't get away from him. Hagler was outslicked by Bobby Watts and the original Willie Monroe -- who weren't that good, suffered many defeats, and never got title shots.

Hagler fought no natural Middleweight opponents as big, tall, powerful and skilled as Chris Eubank, Billy Joe Saunders, or Daniel Jacobs -- who are all ducking GGG, as is Canelo. The best natural middleweight challengers Marv fought were fairly crude swingers. John Mugabi weighed only 157 into the ring. He hit Hagler with so many crude swings that he convinced Leonard that Hagler would be easy meat -- even though Leonard was a Welterweight carrying 3 years of ring rust at the time... But Leonard wanted nothing to do with top Middleweight contenders Mike McCallum or Michael Nunn after he beat Hagler... It was easy to see why Leonard surrendered his Middleweight Title rather than fight such great Middleweight contenders... It was for the same reason Canelo ducked GGG.

It would have been a different story with Hagler had he fought until he was 36---and was able to fight such powerful and slick Middleweights as Reggie Johnson, James Toney, Michael Nunn, and Mike McCallum... As it is, Hagler got out of Boxing with a superb Championship record of 13 wins in 15 Middleweight Title Fights with 12 wins by KO.. However, Golovkin has 18 wins in 18 Middleweight Title Fights with 18 wins by KO... You have to win every fight these days or else you're toast.

Hagler fought 5 fights he didn't win... I'm not quite sure, that if Golovkin ever suffers a defeat or a draw, that everybody is going to give him some space.

Today's boxing talent is not as good as 30 years ago. I don't take nothing away from GGG. He has shown that he is a real champion in this era. He was born in the former Soviet Union in '82, Kalan. That means he was a Russian before the collapse of the Soviet Union. He is from Kazhastan, now. Excuse my spelling of that nation. I didn't even know that that country exist.

GGG has the WORLD RECORD of 18 wins in a row by knockout in world title bouts. It's that amazing today or not? It's a question to everyone in this forum.

[Kalan]

Gennady Golovkin isn't Russian. He's Kazakhstani.

GGG has a much better jab and is a stronger attacker than Hagler. He's better defensively, has better feet, and is better at controlling the ring against boxers as well. The 36-0 Brook couldn't get away from him. Hagler was outslicked by Bobby Watts and the original Willie Monroe -- who weren't that good, suffered many defeats, and never got title shots.

Hagler fought no natural Middleweight opponents as big, tall, powerful and skilled as Chris Eubank, Billy Joe Saunders, or Daniel Jacobs -- who are all ducking GGG, as is Canelo. The best natural middleweight challengers Marv fought were fairly crude swingers. John Mugabi weighed only 157 into the ring. He hit Hagler with so many crude swings that he convinced Leonard that Hagler would be easy meat -- even though Leonard was a Welterweight carrying 3 years of ring rust at the time... But Leonard wanted nothing to do with top Middleweight contenders Mike McCallum or Michael Nunn after he beat Hagler... It was easy to see why Leonard surrendered his Middleweight Title rather than fight such great Middleweight contenders... It was for the same reason Canelo ducked GGG.

It would have been a different story with Hagler had he fought until he was 36---and was able to fight such powerful and slick Middleweights as Reggie Johnson, James Toney, Michael Nunn, and Mike McCallum... As it is, Hagler got out of Boxing with a superb Championship record of 13 wins in 15 Middleweight Title Fights with 12 wins by KO.. However, Golovkin has 18 wins in 18 Middleweight Title Fights with 18 wins by KO... You have to win every fight these days or else you're toast.

Hagler fought 5 fights he didn't win... I'm not quite sure, that if Golovkin ever suffers a defeat or a draw, that everybody is going to give him some space.

Today's boxing talent is not as good as 30 years ago. I don't take nothing away from GGG. He has shown that he is a real champion in this era. He was born in the former Soviet Union in '82, Kalan. That means he was a Russian before the collapse of the Soviet Union. He is from Kazhastan, now. Excuse my spelling of that nation. I didn't even know that that country exist.

GGG has the WORLD RECORD of 18 wins in a row by knockout in world title bouts. It's that amazing today or not? It's a question to everyone in this forum.

Kazakhstan was never a part of Russia -- even when it was part of the Soviet Union... Russia and Kazakhstan were 2 different countries in the USSR.

Athletes get better with advancements in training and Boxing science.. 98% of World Records that existed in Hagler's day have been smashed.

There are many more countries with many more professional boxers today in slices of the planet where professional boxing didn't even exist when Hagler was champion... I'm certain Chris Eubank and Daniel Jacobs would smash a crude swinger like John Mugabi who was knocked out many times by much lighter guys... And I don't think Hagler fought particularly effective challengers who were natural Middleweights... The best guys Hag fought were lighter guys coming up who he had a size and strength advantage over. Hagler never had to fight guys like James Toney, Michael Nunn, Reggie Johnson, and Mike McCallum---whom Ray Leonard could have fought if he had the guts.

[Bricks]

haggler had that bit of aarsehole in his work even when he started to fade. Like when Mugabi tried to mug him off in the 6th round he unleashed hell. GGG is exceptional and I didn't think so until the brook fight.GGG would try and do what Minter did but hes far far better equipped to do it. I can see it going 15 to the wire

[BoxBuzz]

Gennady Golovkin isn't Russian. He's Kazakhstani.

GGG has a much better jab and is a stronger attacker than Hagler. He's better defensively, has better feet, and is better at controlling the ring against boxers as well. The 36-0 Brook couldn't get away from him. Hagler was outslicked by Bobby Watts and the original Willie Monroe -- who weren't that good, suffered many defeats, and never got title shots.

Hagler fought no natural Middleweight opponents as big, tall, powerful and skilled as Chris Eubank, Billy Joe Saunders, or Daniel Jacobs -- who are all ducking GGG, as is Canelo. The best natural middleweight challengers Marv fought were fairly crude swingers. John Mugabi weighed only 157 into the ring. He hit Hagler with so many crude swings that he convinced Leonard that Hagler would be easy meat -- even though Leonard was a Welterweight carrying 3 years of ring rust at the time... But Leonard wanted nothing to do with top Middleweight contenders Mike McCallum or Michael Nunn after he beat Hagler... It was easy to see why Leonard surrendered his Middleweight Title rather than fight such great Middleweight contenders... It was for the same reason Canelo ducked GGG.

It would have been a different story with Hagler had he fought until he was 36---and was able to fight such powerful and slick Middleweights as Reggie Johnson, James Toney, Michael Nunn, and Mike McCallum... As it is, Hagler got out of Boxing with a superb Championship record of 13 wins in 15 Middleweight Title Fights with 12 wins by KO.. However, Golovkin has 18 wins in 18 Middleweight Title Fights with 18 wins by KO... You have to win every fight these days or else you're toast.

Hagler fought 5 fights he didn't win... I'm not quite sure, that if Golovkin ever suffers a defeat or a draw, that everybody is going to give him some space.

Today's boxing talent is not as good as 30 years ago. I don't take nothing away from GGG. He has shown that he is a real champion in this era. He was born in the former Soviet Union in '82, Kalan. That means he was a Russian before the collapse of the Soviet Union. He is from Kazhastan, now. Excuse my spelling of that nation. I didn't even know that that country exist.

GGG has the WORLD RECORD of 18 wins in a row by knockout in world title bouts. It's that amazing today or not? It's a question to everyone in this forum.

Kazakhstan was never a part of Russia -- even when it was part of the Soviet Union... Russia and Kazakhstan were 2 different countries in the USSR.

Athletes get better with advancements in training and Boxing science.. 98% of World Records that existed in Hagler's day have been smashed.

There are many more countries with many more professional boxers today in slices of the planet where professional boxing didn't even exist when Hagler was champion... I'm certain Chris Eubank and Daniel Jacobs would smash a crude swinger like John Mugabi who was knocked out many times by much lighter guys... And I don't think Hagler fought particularly effective challengers who were natural Middleweights... The best guys Hag fought were lighter guys coming up who he had a size and strength advantage over. Hagler never had to fight guys like James Toney, Michael Nunn, Reggie Johnson, and Mike McCallum---whom Ray Leonard could have fought if he had the guts.

Would you describe Hagler as a "Plodder"?

[FightWriter]

I think GGG is awesome and he's carving quite a name for himself, but how good has his opposition been? To be honest, he didn't look all that hot against Brook; he looked confused at times, and very "hitable." Honestly, who is the most impressive opponent on his resume?

Clearly, he shouldn't be slighted for having so many opponents run from him, but until we see him in against some serious fighters who are dangerous and aren't so afraid of him that they assume the role of punching bag, we don't know what he has.

Hagler has a fantastic resume compared to GGG and sometimes it baffles me how people can disregard his wins over the likes of Hearns or Mugambi -- both of which were brutally heavy punchers. Are we saying GGG possesses more firepower in his punches than that which was found in Tommy's monster of a right hand?

Hard to really compare until we see GGG fight some serious fighters who aren't afraid of him. He might be the greatest ever, or he might come apart like a house of cards when facing an opponent as fearless and fearsome as himself.

[Kalan]

I think GGG is awesome and he's carving quite a name for himself, but how good has his opposition been? To be honest, he didn't look all that hot against Brook; he looked confused at times, and very "hitable." Honestly, who is the most impressive opponent on his resume?

Clearly, he shouldn't be slighted for having so many opponents run from him, but until we see him in against some serious fighters who are dangerous and aren't so afraid of him that they assume the role of punching bag, we don't know what he has.

Hagler has a fantastic resume compared to GGG and sometimes it baffles me how people can disregard his wins over the likes of Hearns or Mugambi -- both of which were brutally heavy punchers. Are we saying GGG possesses more firepower in his punches than that which was found in Tommy's monster of a right hand?

Hard to really compare until we see GGG fight some serious fighters who aren't afraid of him. He might be the greatest ever, or he might come apart like a house of cards when facing an opponent as fearless and fearsome as himself.

Hagler's wins over Hearns and Mugabi???? ... WTF are you talking aobut??!!! Hearns was a China chin who got knocked stiff by a crude swinger who had a ton of LOSSES!!! And Mugabi got flattened in ONE ROUND by the China chinned but nifty Terry Norris (who also boxed the crap out of Sugar Ray Leonard when Leonard was younger than Golovkin will be for his next fight) and crushed by Duane Thomas, who was good enough to beat Hagler. Mugabi was a crude swinger who never beat ANYONE good... The only title Mugabi won was AFTER he fought Hagler at 154... Duane Thomas battered and knocked out chump Mugabi.

Hagler was also out-boxed by Willie Monroe who had a few losses of his own... that was the 3rd time Hagler failed to win a fight... I wasn't surprised when Hagler couldn't lay good punches on a Welterweight who hadn't fought in 3 years -- and then quit Boxing at 32 because Michael Nunn and Mike McCallum were much better natural Middleweights than Hager EVER fought in his LIFE!!! ... Leonard refused to fight them also and pulled a Canelo... Leonard abandoned the Middleweight Title after beating Hagler because the top Middleweights would have killed him.

Gennady Golovkin is still going strong at nearly 35... an age where Leonard and Hagler were safely retired... In his last fight he beat 36-0 World Champion Kell Brook in England... Brook entered the ring in the 170's and makes a good size Middleweight who can box and punch... GGG also beat Middleweight Champion David Lemieux, a dangerous puncher who dominated 31-1 Hassan N'Dam in his previous fight to capture a World Title.

Hagler lost a few and fought a weak group of Middleweights... When Michael Nunn and Mike McCallum came along Hagler and Leonard fled the scene.. Hagler was knocked down by a nobody... Hagler couldn't floor or stop Marcos Geraldo, who'd been knocked out 10 times before... Hagler couldn't floor or stop an old and doddering Benny Briscoe... Vicious punching ATG Middleweight Rodrigo Valdez cold cocked a young Briscoe with 1 punch, but couldn't beat Carlos Monzon... So I think there's a few Middleweight Champions who would have beaten Hagler all over the ring and knocked him cold.

[FightWriter]

So, basically everyone that Hagler fought and defeated were chumps, even though when Hagler fought them they looked pretty damn good. On the other hand, GGG looked hitable and appeared stunned against a fighter that moved up from welterweight to fight him, yet you are going to prop that guy up as legit to boost your argument that GGG is fighting killers, or at least fighters better in their era than Hearns, Mugambi and countless others were during the time of Hagler. You say Hagler was basically sub-par and you try to discredit his resume while trying to prop up David Lemieux and previous GGG punching bags as fearsome opponents.

Gotcha. Seriously, though, who on GGG's resume is so noteworthy at middleweight?

By the way, and this is an honest question -- were you really upset with my questions in the previous post? You seem very combative about anyone who doesn't share your opinion.

Don't get me wrong, I respect that you are passionate, but when you totally dismiss a fighter like Hagler, and the way in which you did it, giving him no credit where it is clearly due, it makes it hard to take you seriously.

[Kalan]

Well FightWriter I don't take people seriously who prop up badly beaten and badly outboxed old timers and disrespect every modern day fighter... Do I have to remind you that Tommy Hearns was trashed and knocked cold by the crude swinging Iran Barkley -- who was trashed and beaten a ton of times???

But YOU have the disrespect to knock undefeated Kell Brook, 36-0, who also came up from Welterweight, but never came close to losing a fight in his life until he fought GGG... After he gets the snot knocked out of him by Triple-G the only thing you can recall about the fight is something that never happened.. GGG was never stunned... nothing happened to his legs... He was never beaten... He was never knocked down in his life...

But let me remind you that Hearns, Leonard, Mugabi, and Hagler were ALL knocked down and were beaten several times... Things that never happened to GGG.

[FightWriter]

How on earth did I disrespect GGG? How?

If you think that I was disrespecting GGG or Brook, then what do you call what you are doing to the names of Hagler, Hearns, etc?

You still haven't answered my question about the best names on GGG's resume. So far, the names on his hit list aren't as good as those on Hagler's, but that doesn't mean GGG won't end up surpassing Hagler, Monzon, Hopinks and several others. Oddly enough, you point out that the biggest names Hagler can claim came from the lower divisions, as if that is a crime. You fail to see that GGG is in much the same boat now as Hagler was before he fought a big name in Duran. He needed guys like Duran and Hearns to really make him break through, much as GGG needed Canelo -- a fighter from a lower division -- to move up and face him. Canelo has moved up, but sadly for GGG, I am not sure he is as brave as Duran and Hearns were during the time of Hagler.

GGG and Hagler are a lot alike, and the knocks you lay on the resume of Hagler can be knocks against GGG. On the other hand, GGG still has an ongoing career, so we just don't know how great he will become.

But to act as if Hagler is some chump because he and his opposition were knocked down in their careers... well, it surprises me, to say the least. We're all fight fans and we all have different opinions, so I am going to leave it at that.

And, I wanted to say that your input on the list I am working on -- the Toney fight and the Sanchez fight -- was excellent. Loved both of those fights.

Good day to you.

[Kalan]

FightWriter I'm not disrespecting Hagler... I'm stating the facts not calling him a chump so you're putting words in my mouth... The fact is, Hagler didn't have as many successful title defenses as Golovkin. He didn't fight Middleweights as tough as Jacobs, Eubank, and others who are around today, and he peeled off and quit Boxing at an earlier age... And funning thing is, when Michael Nunn and Mike McCallum came up Hagler didn't want to fight them...and neither did Leonard... Hagler wanted the rematch with Leonard but not Nunn or McCallum... Leonard abandoned the Middleweight Title he won from Hagler rather than fight Nunn or McCallum... SRL did the same thing Canyelo did.

What if fighters of that caliber came around and Golovkin fled the scene??? It's the other way around for Triple-G... He the guy being ducked.

[FightWriter]

Hagler had 67 fights in a 14 year career, which is a lot. I think that rather than it being a case of him being afraid to lose to the next generation, it is more likely that with Leonard ending his reign (and his desire to break Monzon's record), he simply became disenchanted with it all. Acting as if he was in his prime but running from top guys just doesn't seem likely. All fighters age differently, and you could see Halger looked like a lesser version of himself in his fight against Leonard, where Leonard looked great.

Hagler faced some damn tough fighters, who were honestly great fighters as well. He took some serious damage in his career and I don't think he would have called it quits if he hadn't lost to Leonard. Additionally, the boxing scene is much different now than it was back then. Personally, I think GGG would fit in better in the 80's, when big fights got made much easier than they are today, because it was about bragging rights back then, which seems to fit GGG's personality, which is a good thing.

GGG is a great talent, but like Hagler, he is being forced to fight bigger name fighter from lower weight classes in order to push his name out there, or "break through." Hopefully, Canelo will fight him sooner rather than later, and maybe a fight with Ward, if that somehow develops.

You and I just happen to disagree, and that is all.

[Bricks]

GGG is clearly exceptional. Hits like a train, great balance, wonderful movement cutting off the ring etc but he's defo there to be hit. How does he do against boxers that will hit him much much harder than anyone he's faced. Meaning Hagler, Monzon etc. How does he react when Hagler for example stands in front of him, isn't scared and nails him right back...with interest.

Views?

I think GGG v Hagler would be a remake of Minter-Hagler without so much blood. Hagler just had a ability to punch straight through the middle better than anyone ive seen. He did it at angles too. It took a quirky defensive genius like Robbie Duran to neutralise that. By SRL he was shot and GGG cant move like that.

Monzon is just too big too experienced

[Kalan]

GGG is clearly exceptional. Hits like a train, great balance, wonderful movement cutting off the ring etc but he's defo there to be hit. How does he do against boxers that will hit him much much harder than anyone he's faced. Meaning Hagler, Monzon etc. How does he react when Hagler for example stands in front of him, isn't scared and nails him right back...with interest.

Views?

I think GGG v Hagler would be a remake of Minter-Hagler without so much blood. Hagler just had a ability to punch straight through the middle better than anyone ive seen. He did it at angles too. It took a quirky defensive genius like Robbie Duran to neutralise that. By SRL he was shot and GGG cant move like that.

Monzon is just too big too experienced

That's just insane BS about Hagler... Minter was small, weak, slow, cut very easily, and was beaten many times. He lost enough times to show he had plenty of problems and was very far from a Michael Nunn or Mike McCallum, really great, tall, skilled, fast, and tough natural Middleweights who Hagler refused to fight.

Ray Leonard (who beat Hagler coming off of a 3-year-layoff) also refused to fight Nunn or McCallum. Golovkin would have beaten all those guys. A devastating a puncher with one of the greatest jabs ever, he would easily control the smaller Hagler and knock the bejabbers out of him. Hagler lost a few fights, and couldn't punch out a China chinned plodder like Marcos Geraldo, who had been knocked out 10 times before.