Disappointed in Shane McG to be honest

[Mimmy]

It is sounding increasingly like Haye was injured going in & it makes me wonder why a guy was has perfected the art of pulling out of fights did not do so on this occasion?

PPV ticket sales.

[Coco]

To be fair to McGuigan, it was never his call, he has been employed as a yes man, Haye is the boss he makes the calls.
Adam Booth would have pulled him out.

[bbjc]

I genuinely think out of everyone. Mcguigan came out looking the worst last night. He did come across like a guy in awe of david haye following him about. Thinking its allright to train on yachts...or even kid on he was training on a yacht...was a bit of a joke tbh. Looked like a guy that had no authority whatsoever. Even stopping the fight any person with any kind of authority would have had it stopped not long after it occured. Its allright saying he was basically just employed to be a yes man. But he shouldnt be allowing himself to be in that position in the first place. Your either employed as the man in charge or your not employed at all.

Even 5 week training camps in miami etc. Advice in fight from what i seen particularly the round when he hurt his ankle. Not getting david calm for going into the fight...looked like he was fighting on emotion in that first round...this is the same guy under booth who was one of the most calculated around. Didnt even look like they had a plan but bomb him out of there. Was wierd haye had a four inch reach advantage and spent the time giving it all up from the start.

Looks to me like mcguigan is actually just a very good fitness coach. To be fair hes young. Hes learning and this experience will benefit him in the long run. But its been a fiasco from start to finish for him.

I think hes took the job on off the back of emotion cause he likes and looked up to haye for his ability etc. I d actually like to know if hayes body is ravaged with injury or hes just old. Or hes just not living the life of a serious boxer. Personally think the bodies not allowing him to even do the training properly nowadays. Because his timing was way off from the start. Reminded me a bit like hatton v senchenko. The problem is tho...hatton had basically been an alcoholic with a massive cocaine habit for 3 or 4 years prior to it. Whats haye been up to? Supposedly according to him hes been keeping himself fit the whole time.

Another thing i d like to know is wheres davids money actually gone. He must have banked about 30 million in his career.

[BitPlayer]

Looks to me like mcguigan is actually just a very good fitness coach. To be fair hes young. Hes learning and this experience will benefit him in the long run. But its been a fiasco from start to finish for him.

Trouble is he's too high level to learn on the job, if he gets a bad name I'm not sure he'll ever be successful.

[bodyactive]

Aye, it was a bit mad given the state Haye was in. I was surprised he kept going so long in that state. Shane did throw the towel though as soon as Haye got hurt.

The only thing that was hurting was his Leg i thought he was more knackered than hurt.good entertainment but def not world class boxing but Haye was loading up from 1st bell swinging all over why didnt SM tell himm to use his jab and stop loading up.but i agree he was a bit dissapointing

[bbjc]

Good point. Its like hes been threw in at the deep end. Would be better as a number 2 in charge atm. Rate his fitness work etc. Just appears to be found wanting in terms of the boxing side of things at the level hes currently working at. Plus age and even personalities against him in terms of being the authouritive figure needed for the corner or the main man in charge. Should be away to america learning under roach or someone like that. Or even booth or the ingles. Because for me he wasnt anywhere near ready for that last night. Not even the fight but the whole thing. What was he thinking on the yaught watching david do yoga etc. Fine if you go out and win easily but when it goes wrong people go back and analyse it. And almost every decision he got wrong.

After seeing that last night. I can tell you what davids biggest problem was/is...hes fell in love with his power. Hes also putting too much weight on cause he thinks it makes him punch harder. The problem is it also makes him slower. The opponents can see them coming. Nearly everytime i seen haye on the pads with mcguigan or his assistant there trying to smash it as hard as he can. Davids got natural power. They dont need to work on it. They needed to work on the speed. Get him as fast as they possibly can. Thats what will cause the opponents the problems.

The pad work should have been solely focused on his reflex,s. Nothing to do with power. They needed to get him down to about 210 pounds. Even slightly lower. Hes carrying too much bulk for his body. Not helping his injuries either. Tbf it could be a case of his bodies fecked anyway. Not allowing him to get down the weight. It that case he shouldnt be fighting and mcguigan should be telling him that.

[bodyactive]

The impression you got is the boxer telling the trainer what to do
Haye was done after 5 put everything into 6th and was hanging on for the rest

[Finn]

It is sounding increasingly like Haye was injured going in & it makes me wonder why a guy was has perfected the art of pulling out of fights did not do so on this occasion?

PPV ticket sales.

3 reasons:
1. He would never get a ppv date again after pulling out of another high profile fight.
2. He reportedly needed the money and even if he didn't it's a lot of money to turn down.
3. He probably didn't think his Achilles would completely go and thought he would still be too much for Bellew even carrying the injury.

[bripez]

To be fair to McGuigan, it was never his call, he has been employed as a yes man, Haye is the boss he makes the calls.
Adam Booth would have pulled him out.

He is clearly taking after his dad - Barry loves a pound note.

They are all on the payroll, Cyclone Promotions employs the whole Mcguigan family.

[Finn]

I don't think Shane did anything wrong. Haye is a dangerous puncher so before he was bundled through the ropes I think he still had a slim chance of landing the right. But once it got humiliating he put the towel in. I wouldn't have complained if he let haye carry on, bellew wasn't really landing anything of note still. If he had thrown the towel I after one round the whole "he quit" crap would have been coming out of everyone's mouth.

[Grilling Machine]

But once it got humiliating

That's the right word for it. It still wasn't imminently scary for Haye when he got back into the ring, but it was incredibly sad to watch at that point. That tumble clarified that he was done, so why risk it.

[bbjc]

Think when your ankles gone its gone. The towel should have been in. Think someone had to tell him to put it in in the end. But fair enough as you said hayes got big power. Its not really his biggest misgiving of the whole episode. From the outside looking in mcguigan looked like a hanger on. Haye said he knows how his body reacts best now...knows what training works best. Prefers to be in a hot climate in miami. Came in heavier than expected. He pretty much dictated everything. Mcguigan looked like he was there to hold pads and give him water. Even then he was only out there for about 4 weeks.

Hayes got him on yaughts doing yoga with mcguigan looking on like a plum. He basically had no authority whatsoever in there. Probably not fair to have a go at his coaching style because it looks to me hes that impressed with haye he was willing to do anything to be involved. Think if your gonna be a coach thats taking seriously you need to start acting seriously. You should be dictating the terms. The problem is he was in no position to dictate terms to a two weight world champion like haye. Haye should have went for experience. Or should have begged booth to get back on board. Would love to hear shanes honest account of it all. Because sometimes its easy to throw accusations about just looking in from the outside. But that looked like a shambles to me.

Haye coming in a bit too heavy. I actually initially seen it as a good thing but if i d seen him fighting like that in the gym. I d be getting some of that weight off him asap. Same with the pad work. There smashing it every single shot. Lets get working on the reflexes. Hayes naturally got power...you dont even need to work on it. Especially with injuries at this stage of the game. The footwork...so slow and basic. Considering haye at his best. I understand people age ring rust etc...but hayes causing his own problems at 225 pounds. Hes been training for months. Hes been training while his fight was cancelled etc. If they cant get him down to 210 pounds and sharp. Somethings not right.

Even just moving about the ring he looks laboured. Where was the traps. Setting bellew up. Did they even work on tactics. Did they actually really believe they didnt really need to train properly. Starting to think they just got him decent stamina and punched the pads really hard.

[coneye]

I said it months ago . You don't just get out of bed and say , Mmmm . i think i'll go and train some world champion fighters ,,, You learn the job and you do that by studying under and helping other trainers , , I said it a while back and i'll say it again Shane is not old enough to have the experience neccessary at that level ,, Its Ok saying youve been around boxing all your life , But so had Emanuel Stewards wife ,, did'nt see her taking over Klitchko did you ,

If he wants to be a top trainer start training top lads , bringing up good ameteurs and decent pro's , diving in on the top end just shows he's a celebrity trainer and a yes man . Theres no way would Roach allow the boxer to dictate he's trainng on a yaucht cos its warmer

[dalcumly]

I'm reading through the thread this morning and now that the heat of battle has died down, there's some interesting points to consider.

1 Why did the referee not call for a Doctors opinion when Haye began staggering around like a new born deer? You could easily argue he was in no fit state to defend himself. If the doctor had declared that Haye was unable to continue, and the ref accepted it, the fight would have went to the scorecards, with Haye being declared the winner on points.

2 With the ref not taking action, the decision to continue was McGuigan's alone , not Haye. The last thing a boxer will do in a big fight is retire, that's when his chief second has to take responsibility. Given that McGuigan must have known about the injury beforehand, and it 'went' during the fight, he should have thrown in the towel in the 7th.

3 McGuigan ,as the chief second, and Haye,should be called up to the Board to explain Haye's medical condition before the fight, and be asked if the Board doctor ,who examined Haye before the fight , was advised of his injury. Ultimately its the doctors decision, in any fight, to declare the boxer fit. Of course this usually involves, looking at his eyesight, checking his heart, and making sure he's generally OK. But its not limited to that. For instance if a doctor became aware that a boxer's hand is broken he'd refuse to allow him to box. Likewise, if his achilles tendon was hanging by a thread, that should have been brought to the doctors attention.
The bottom line is that Haye and McGuigan put money before health.

[handsofstone]

I was certain Haye would be retired after the 6th round, I told the mrs it was over , couldn't believe what I was seeing when Haye kept coming out round after round, incredible bravery, I personally felt McGuigan should've pulled his man out but watching it live I always felt there was a slight chance Haye could tag Bellew in an exchange, I think I was still in shock my Haye KO1 never came off

From the very 1st bell you could see Haye relying on the left hook and it was always lunging because he couldn't really spring on to the left leg from the right leg as he had to use his left leg as a starting point which made him off balance and plainly just wild, although his desperation to tag Bellew early must have played a part as well, all in all it made for a messy start from Haye

I wont taking nothing away from Bellew though he beat what was in front of him and it wasn't his fault Haye went in injured, he's not the 1st fighter to capatalise on circumstances

A lot of the shots Haye did manage to tag Bellew with were on the end of his arms and Tony was able to ride them to take the sting out, although he did do well to stand up to a solid combination in the 4th , Bellew gave Haye a beating after the injury worsened but he couldn't really hurt David which is the only reason I can see McGuigan letting Haye go out for more, Haye was showing incredible heart and even cunning at times to try bring Bellew on to a big shot, Bellew gassed after going for broke and Haye has KO power so there was always a real chance Haye could turn it around, it was a tough ask though and the thing I would worry about from Haye's perspective is how much worse has the Achilles been damaged after all the punishment it took?

[rhino222]

I'm reading through the thread this morning and now that the heat of battle has died down, there's some interesting points to consider.

1 Why did the referee not call for a Doctors opinion when Haye began staggering around like a new born deer? You could easily argue he was in no fit state to defend himself. If the doctor had declared that Haye was unable to continue, and the ref accepted it, the fight would have went to the scorecards, with Haye being declared the winner on points.

2 With the ref not taking action, the decision to continue was McGuigan's alone , not Haye. The last thing a boxer will do in a big fight is retire, that's when his chief second has to take responsibility. Given that McGuigan must have known about the injury beforehand, and it 'went' during the fight, he should have thrown in the towel in the 7th.

3 McGuigan ,as the chief second, and Haye,should be called up to the Board to explain Haye's medical condition before the fight, and be asked if the Board doctor ,who examined Haye before the fight , was advised of his injury. Ultimately its the doctors decision, in any fight, to declare the boxer fit. Of course this usually involves, looking at his eyesight, checking his heart, and making sure he's generally OK. But its not limited to that. For instance if a doctor became aware that a boxer's hand is broken he'd refuse to allow him to box. Likewise, if his achilles tendon was hanging by a thread, that should have been brought to the doctors attention.
The bottom line is that Haye and McGuigan put money before health.

good post for you Dalcum

point 1 is of particular note. I never thought of that but haye could have been withdrawn by the doc, won the fight, guaranteed another payday re-match due to the ending.

but its easy after the event.

[samwbr]

He supposedly chinned someone in the crowd on the way back to the dressing room after the fight.

[magwitch]

Thought the corner should have forced the issue much earlier, really not sure why Shane let him fight so many rounds given he could barely walk. In the break immediately after it happened Haye was obviously saying let me fight on, so at that point you'd maybe let him go another minute or two but clearly, I'll repeat that in caps, CLEARLY Haye was in considerable pain and couldn't use both legs properly. So how the f*ck he was ever going to box properly I'll never know. Yes Haye would have been furious if McGuigan had pulled it, because of his pride, and yes he'd maybe never work with or even speak to him again, but FFS from a professional point of view it was the only decision IMO. Instead you keep sending your guy out there to get clubbed and make a spectacle of himself falling over when trying to fight back. I thought it was pretty shocking from the corner tbh and I'm surprised nobodies talking more about it.

While I'm ranting I was a bit disappointed in Bellew after the fight also. I like Tony and I even won a few quid by backing him, but to not even acknowledge the fact, FACT, that Haye's achilles or whatever it was clearly snapped and left him broken wasn't very sporting. To try and paint the fight as 'I knew I'd get him late on' or whatever is just bollocks. AS I said I had a very small bet on Tony but up till the injury there was only going to be one winner, Haye was finding a rhythm and starting to connect with Tony's very stationary head more and more.

I imagine Haye will have to retire now but to be honest I really hope he gets the ankle 100% and gets a rematch, from what I seen in the few rounds he was able a 100% fit Haye would be far too much for Bellew. Good luck to both anyway whatever they do next.

Classy one that mate completely agree.

[magwitch]

I wont taking nothing away from Bellew though he beat what was in front of him and it wasn't his fault Haye went in injured, he's not the 1st fighter to capatalise on circumstances

Absolutely Some people overlook that too easily.

A lot of the shots Haye did manage to tag Bellew with were on the end of his arms and Tony was able to ride them to take the sting out, although he did do well to stand up to a solid combination in the 4th , Bellew gave Haye a beating after the injury worsened but he couldn't really hurt David which is the only reason I can see McGuigan letting Haye go out for more, Haye was showing incredible heart and even cunning at times to try bring Bellew on to a big shot, Bellew gassed after going for broke and Haye has KO power so there was always a real chance Haye could turn it around, it was a tough ask though and the thing I would worry about from Haye's perspective is how much worse has the Achilles been damaged after all the punishment it took?

It sounds like Haye really showed mettle in there. I thought it was his shoulder that might be the problem, this seems to have come as a shock to everyone. Presumably he must have knackered it at some point after his two comeback appointments.
I know that Carl Froch fought for a long time without an anterior cruciate ligament , completely unaware of it....but nothing like this.

[danconnollyeire]

It is sounding increasingly like Haye was injured going in & it makes me wonder why a guy was has perfected the art of pulling out of fights did not do so on this occasion?

Last chance saloon, also why he didn't quit

AJ fight has now gone and he knows Bellew rematch is the only big £ out there

AJ hasn't gone. If he KOs Bellew in a rematch and an average top 10 HW (Browne or someone), who else does AJ have? Wilder probably won't fight him. There's always money in Haye

[Controversial]

What I do find strange is Haye was obviously injured going into the fight but his ankle wasn't strapped up yet they tried putting tape around his ankle mid fight. Haye was walking very gingerley into the ring, wouldn't they think to strap it up beforehand?

[Srebmun]

What were those shoes/boots he had on about too? seemed awfully flimsy.

[magwitch]

Good point. Its like hes been threw in at the deep end. Would be better as a number 2 in charge atm. Rate his fitness work etc. Just appears to be found wanting in terms of the boxing side of things at the level hes currently working at. Plus age and even personalities against him in terms of being the authouritive figure needed for the corner or the main man in charge. Should be away to america learning under roach or someone like that. Or even booth or the ingles. Because for me he wasnt anywhere near ready for that last night. Not even the fight but the whole thing. What was he thinking on the yaught watching david do yoga etc. Fine if you go out and win easily but when it goes wrong people go back and analyse it. And almost every decision he got wrong.

After seeing that last night. I can tell you what davids biggest problem was/is...hes fell in love with his power. Hes also putting too much weight on cause he thinks it makes him punch harder. The problem is it also makes him slower. The opponents can see them coming. Nearly everytime i seen haye on the pads with mcguigan or his assistant there trying to smash it as hard as he can. Davids got natural power. They dont need to work on it. They needed to work on the speed. Get him as fast as they possibly can. Thats what will cause the opponents the problems.

The pad work should have been solely focused on his reflex,s. Nothing to do with power. They needed to get him down to about 210 pounds. Even slightly lower. Hes carrying too much bulk for his body. Not helping his injuries either. Tbf it could be a case of his bodies fecked anyway. Not allowing him to get down the weight. It that case he shouldnt be fighting and mcguigan should be telling him that.

[Rob3_142]

It is sounding increasingly like Haye was injured going in & it makes me wonder why a guy was has perfected the art of pulling out of fights did not do so on this occasion?

Last chance saloon, also why he didn't quit

AJ fight has now gone and he knows Bellew rematch is the only big £ out there

AJ hasn't gone. If he KOs Bellew in a rematch and an average top 10 HW (Browne or someone), who else does AJ have? Wilder probably won't fight him. There's always money in Haye

I think the fact they you're suggesting Browne as a possible opponent for Haye demonstrates how out of touch you are. Haye has just had surgery on the achilles, depending on the severity of the injury, we're looking at minimum 6 months until he'll be in a position to fight again. Let's say that he fights Bellew next in a rematch, and spanks him inside 3 rounds (which he needs to do to save face), and then fights another top 10 contender in a quick turnaround, beating him in equally impressive fashion, that would be in a minimum of 12 months time.

In that time AJ would have fought, and most likely beat Klitschko, and probably satisfied one of his mandatory fights also. In 12 months time, AJ will have plenty of options. For a start he'll have his eye on unifying the division, so namely fights with Parker and Wilder. It's also possible that Tyson will be back on the scene in 12 months time (although not certainly). Haye is not the biggest option, and since the Bellew defeat, not even an attractive one.

[Rob3_142]

I'm reading through the thread this morning and now that the heat of battle has died down, there's some interesting points to consider.

1 Why did the referee not call for a Doctors opinion when Haye began staggering around like a new born deer? You could easily argue he was in no fit state to defend himself. If the doctor had declared that Haye was unable to continue, and the ref accepted it, the fight would have went to the scorecards, with Haye being declared the winner on points.

2 With the ref not taking action, the decision to continue was McGuigan's alone , not Haye. The last thing a boxer will do in a big fight is retire, that's when his chief second has to take responsibility. Given that McGuigan must have known about the injury beforehand, and it 'went' during the fight, he should have thrown in the towel in the 7th.

3 McGuigan ,as the chief second, and Haye,should be called up to the Board to explain Haye's medical condition before the fight, and be asked if the Board doctor ,who examined Haye before the fight , was advised of his injury. Ultimately its the doctors decision, in any fight, to declare the boxer fit. Of course this usually involves, looking at his eyesight, checking his heart, and making sure he's generally OK. But its not limited to that. For instance if a doctor became aware that a boxer's hand is broken he'd refuse to allow him to box. Likewise, if his achilles tendon was hanging by a thread, that should have been brought to the doctors attention.
The bottom line is that Haye and McGuigan put money before health.

Decent post.

However, I'm not sure Haye would have been able to win any fight on points if he retired hurt. Think back to the Glazkov - Martin fight.