Chuck1052 wrote:I believe that the April 5, 1915 world heavyweight title bout between Jess Willard and Jack Johnson was legitimate for the following reasons:
1. The film of the knockout shows that Johnson was hit with a hard right cross to the jaw by Willard. As a result, I don't think that Johnson went down for the count because he wanted to.
2. There was very little talk about the bout not being legitimate at the time it took place.
3. Right after losing the bout, Johnson apparently told the New York Times that it was a clean knockout and the best man won.
4. Changing his tune nine months later, Johnson sold his so-called "confession" to Nat Fleischer for $250. In the "confession," Johnson state that he threw the bout for $50,000. in cash and an undisturbed re-entry into the United States. For the rest of his long life, Fleischer himself stated repeatedly that he never believed that Johnson's "confession" was true. Moreover, Johnson was arrested and sent to prison after returning to the United States on July 20, 1920, five years after losing to Willard. What happened to the so-called "deal" that Johnson could have an undisturbed re-entry into the United States if there actually was one? Why would Johnson wait five years before re-entering the U.S. if there was such a "deal?"
5. I myself take very little stock in various conspiracy theories, so many of them appearing to be half-baked or not backed up by solid facts. As someone who has been interested in boxing history for forty-five years, I have never seen any solid evidence showing that Johnson threw the bout.
6. I believe that Jess Willard's and Primo Carnera's knockout wins over Jack Johnson and Jack Sharkey respectively
Easy and obvious rebuttals for anyone who can put 2 and 2 together and make 4.
1. No film or still shot shows the loaded, easy to see right making contact... Newspapers STATE ringsiders were very much in doubt that any KO happened. In fact the audience was dazed at the sudden ending because neither boxer seemed injured.
2. You’re full of nonsense on this point. There was much talk about the fight being illegitimate and that certainly no KO happened. Fans cat called and even yelled out FAKE because the boxers weren’t doing anything for 5 rounds as Johnson waited patiently for his wife to return to her box and signal him. Newspaper articles doubted the KO -- because neither boxer appeared injured and the punch apparently didn’t land. Willard said the KO punch was an uppercut. Propagandists insist it was the loaded right lead -- which no one hits a master boxer with -- and there exists no evidence that the punch landed in slo-mo or still shot -- while there is plenty of evidence that Johnson landed brutal finishing shots on Jeffries and Ketchel.
3. What would Johnson say when being questioned about the KO. Did he want to be arrested for conspiracy since many fans thought the KO was fakery??? He was still the consummate actor, which his acts required of him at the moment. There were feds all over the place following his every move and ready to arrest him.
4. Fleischer always called Johnson the greatest Heavyweight who ever lived, even into the 1960’s and until his death. However Nat always held the sport of Boxing in too high esteem. He preferred to think many famous fake fights were legitimate. The documents called for Johnson to take the count in the 11th round. He said he delayed the ending because the documents hadn’t been given to his wife as in prior agreements. The feds said Johnson’s people took too much time examining the papers and he was in violation of the agreement. People who bet on an 11th round KO were out a ton of money and the feds had a resulting loophole. Johnson was threatened with arrest unless he got his ass back to Europe. Eventually this issue was worked out.
5. Conspiracies happen. Conspiracy theories also happen and they’re 2 different things. You refuse to even look at solid evidence.
6. Carnera’s KO of Sharkey was a terrific right uppercut that can be seen in still shots and motion picture slo-mo.. Likewise, Johnson’s brutally finishing KO's of Jeffries and Ketchel can easily be seen in the motion pictures.. The impacts of those punches were solid and vicious as any ever thrown.. The Willard KO shot of Johnson was a complete joke and doubted by many at ringside. The newspapers also reported that Johnson sent word to his wife to depart before the 26th round because he was ending the fight. And he seemed to set up the KO shot every carefully, fall gently, not let his head bounce on the canvas, have his knees up in the air to start the count, relax them to the canvas, and shade his eyes from the sun with his forearm as he was counted out after a Heavyweight fight that was as tame as any ever seen, and certainly not a brutal clash like Johnson-Jeffries. Are you getting all this Chuck???
Chuck???? … Please read newspaper article
http://www.perno.com/Boxing/WJ2.pdf especially paragraph 8 with the heading “actual knockout doubted” ... the newspaper states that certainly no real KO happened... Then read under the next heading where it states that neither man was badly marked or showed evidence of being in a Heavyweight Fight... and that no Heavyweight fight was “less brutal” ... Also read that the ending dazed spectators and came after 3 rounds of “almost complete idleness” on the part of both Johnson and Willard. This fight was heading nowhere -- as Johnson was awaiting signals from his wife’s box and idling about to cat calls of “DO SOMETHING” and “FAKE”
