Primes, Tyson-Bowe?

Rocky Balboa · Post by **Rocky Balboa** » 22 Mar 2006, 12:05

Both fighters @ their best, what a fight this would have been.

What pattern do you feel the fight would have taken, and ultimately, who ends up victorious?

Cheers.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 22 Mar 2006, 12:23

A hard call. Bowe at his best was formidable. He had a pole for a jab and great power. He was also very durable. I think in head-to-head prime-for-prime match ups Bowe does very well. Bowe's defence wasn't always great and sometimes when he got caught with a shot he was still around soaking up the 2nd and the 3rd follow ups. This would be suicide against Tyson.

When Bowe's jab works like it should then he's a monster. Early on though Mike will be slipping it. If Bowe keeps with it he will start to land with more regularity ( as long as he's still standing). If eh forgets the game plan he might lose focus.

Bowe won the harder fights. Tyson has the better record overall. It's a hard call.

evndrbsn · Post by **evndrbsn** » 22 Mar 2006, 21:59

Tyson vs. Bowe, both in their primes and in the best possible condition ... interesting fight. The fight was rumored in '95 when Tyson was released from prison, but never happened.

Ok, Bowe at 235 and Tyson at 215. Bowe's superior jab and size along with his incredible durability would give "Big Daddy" a great chance of disrupting Tyson's rhythm, allowing him to stick to his game plan. Bowe would take some great shots from Tyson, possibly even hitting the canvas sometime before the fifth, but Bowe would jump right back into the action much to the dismay of Tyson. Bowe controls the mid to late rounds, probably putting Tyson on the canvas once in the championship rounds. Tyson lasts to hear the bell, though, and loses a clear decision.

generic screen name · Post by **generic screen name** » 22 Mar 2006, 23:41

I have Bowe winning by decision in a very competetive fight. Bowe was good in the inside too but that would leave him to get caught in the inside against Tyson.

Bowe always had the heart and the will, but his shape is what drained him. Bowe's one of my favorite heavyweights.

MEISINGER · Post by **MEISINGER** » 22 Mar 2006, 23:43

i am not a big fan of either,but bowe has the style to give tyson fits.i do think bowe would take a close decision.though i would not bet a bunch on it.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 23 Mar 2006, 01:39

peak tyson knocks out bowe

heres why..........bowe loved to slug it out and fight at mid range and that was tysons sweet spot. tyson's biggest problem was on the inside, but he wouldn't have to worry about it in this fight. a peak mike tyson had possibly the best defense in heavyweight history. he would make bowe miss and counter with blazing fast and powerful combos to the head and body. bowes defense is vunerable as holyfield tagged him quite a lot and golota showed his chin is dentable.

tyson KO 5 Bowe

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 23 Mar 2006, 02:29

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote: a peak mike tyson had possibly the best defense in heavyweight history.
tyson KO 5 Bowe

Do you want to read this part again and think about it for a moment?

I know Mike wasn't stationary. I know in the first 4 rounds he was hard to hit cleanly but after that he was right there. Best defence ever? Not even close. What is this based on? That clip of Reggie Gross that someone posted?

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 23 Mar 2006, 02:56

Ezzard wrote:
BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote: a peak mike tyson had possibly the best defense in heavyweight history.
tyson KO 5 Bowe
Do you want to read this part again and think about it for a moment? I know Mike wasn't stationary. I know in the first 4 rounds he was hard to hit cleanly but after that he was right there. Best defence ever? Not even close. What is this based on? That clip of Reggie Gross that someone posted?

jack johnson had the best. but mike was up there. he was a master at making people miss. in his prime, he was hardly ever hit cleanly. his head movement was absolutley incredible and it was unpredictable unlike fraziers.

Arsenal · Post by **Arsenal** » 23 Mar 2006, 03:11

Ezzard you beat me to it. Best defence...no not really. Tyson had some great attributes but his defence certainly wasn't the best. If it was a prime Tyson wouldn't have been caught and wobbled by a slow, mechanical Bruno!

I spoke about this fight on another post. Bowe was never a favorite of mine actually I didn't like him. The way he bottled it against Lewis and was made to look ordinary against Golota tarnish my opinion of him. BUT he is in the mould of boxers who Tyson struggled against but better. Big, strong, durable, unintimidated, good jab and a KO punch. I doubt Tyson would stop it early because Bowe did take a good shot and I think he would be good enough to survive. As it wore on Bowe's size would come into play and wear down Tyson. The later it goes the better for Bowe. I see Bowe by decision or late TKO from rd 10-12. One point this does raise. Does anyone think Tyson would have lasted in the 15 rd era? I don't.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 23 Mar 2006, 05:17

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:
Ezzard wrote:
BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote: a peak mike tyson had possibly the best defense in heavyweight history.
tyson KO 5 Bowe
Do you want to read this part again and think about it for a moment? I know Mike wasn't stationary. I know in the first 4 rounds he was hard to hit cleanly but after that he was right there. Best defence ever? Not even close. What is this based on? That clip of Reggie Gross that someone posted?
jack johnson had the best. but mike was up there. he was a master at making people miss. in his prime, he was hardly ever hit cleanly. his head movement was absolutley incredible and it was unpredictable unlike fraziers.

The thing is you seem to define his prime as any fight he won easily and dismiss any other fight as post-prime.

Tyson was always there for the uppercut. His defence seriously disintegrated as a fight went on. I don't think Mike was easy to hit in the opening rounds but those who went the distance or went late into a fight early on in his career were there to survive. It was only later on that fighters started to take advantage of faults that had always been there.

dr_devious · Post by **dr_devious** » 23 Mar 2006, 05:21

I see it as either Tyson by stoppage early, or Bowe by stoppage late on. If Bowe weathered the early storm hed outbox Tyson and win late, like Buster Douglas did

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 23 Mar 2006, 18:13

its a myth that tyson struggled with tall boxers with good jabs. you guys base everything on the douglas fight and tyson was not the same fighter he once was.

tyson dominated these 4 tall skilled boxers who had goob jabs

larry holmes
tyrell biggs- this was when biggs was very good unlike post tyson
pinklon thomas
tony tucker

- you guys like to critisize tyson but why not critisize bowe? look at the holyfield fights, bowe got hit an awful lot. bowe showed in these fights he was not hard to hit, and a master counterpuncher and deadly combination puncher like mike tyson will use bowe as a human punching bag at mid range. bowes chin wasnt exactley royally tested in his career. holyfield and golota showed you how dentable it was. tyson would flatten bowe.

tysons combination of speed, power will be too much for bowe to handle. tyson will be beating bowe to the punch the entire fight, and be counterpunching bowe's bombs with rapid powerful combinations that bowe would not be able to handle. tyson had great head movement and he will slip bowe's jab most of the fight.

tyson TKO 5 bowe

- funny how people critisize tyson for the douglas, yet dont critisize bowe for fighting 10 even rounds with a fat far past his prime tony tubbs. incidently, a prime tubbs was flattened in 2 easy rounds by mike tyson.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 24 Mar 2006, 05:16

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:its a myth that tyson struggled with tall boxers with good jabs. you guys base everything on the douglas fight and tyson was not the same fighter he once was.

tyson dominated these 4 tall skilled boxers who had goob jabs

larry holmes
tyrell biggs- this was when biggs was very good unlike post tyson
pinklon thomas
tony tucker

- you guys like to critisize tyson but why not critisize bowe? look at the holyfield fights, bowe got hit an awful lot. bowe showed in these fights he was not hard to hit, and a master counterpuncher and deadly combination puncher like mike tyson will use bowe as a human punching bag at mid range. bowes chin wasnt exactley royally tested in his career. holyfield and golota showed you how dentable it was. tyson would flatten bowe.

tysons combination of speed, power will be too much for bowe to handle. tyson will be beating bowe to the punch the entire fight, and be counterpunching bowe's bombs with rapid powerful combinations that bowe would not be able to handle. tyson had great head movement and he will slip bowe's jab most of the fight.

tyson TKO 5 bowe

- funny how people critisize tyson for the douglas, yet dont critisize bowe for fighting 10 even rounds with a fat far past his prime tony tubbs. incidently, a prime tubbs was flattened in 2 easy rounds by mike tyson.

People don't feel the need to criticise Bowe because there aren't a legion of posters trying to claim he's the second coming. You're trying to make it sound like anyone criticising Mike has got a personal grudge, which is nonsense.

I think you've made a fair assessment of a possible outcome of the fight. I'm not sure that I totally agree that Tyson dominated those opponents and Biggs was already looking lacklustre. But he beat them all and that can't be argued with but he didn't blow Tucker away like all the others.

I'd say Bowe's chin was tested. He fought Holy twice and didn't get KO'd, unlike Mike.

Anyway, if Bowe survives your 5th round KO and starts winning a round or two then Tyson folds.

Arsenal · Post by **Arsenal** » 24 Mar 2006, 06:51

Tyson a counter puncher? First I've heard about that!

sockdolager · Post by **sockdolager** » 24 Mar 2006, 07:58

I am a self proclaimed Tyson nuthugger. But, I really do believe that Mike would take Bowe out in the mid rounds. Bowe was a very formidable opponent, but if Mike was in peak form he would make Bowe change his gameplan frm jabbing and trying to set up a straight right to trying to not get killed after Mike lands thunderous shots to the body. Mike Drops Bowe for the count with his classic hook to the body followed by a crushing uppercut. Tyson KO 5

Crease · Post by **Crease** » 24 Mar 2006, 11:08

I think Tyson win by KO round 5.

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 24 Mar 2006, 11:24

Tony Tucker took a peak Tyson out of his fight plan with one punch in the 1st round of there 1987 fight and made him respect his power for the duration of the bout. Bonecrusher Smith wobbled a peak Tyson in the final minute of there unification bout the same year with his only real punch of the fight. Riddick Bowe dealt with adversity alot better than Tyson, who thrived on his opponent being terrified. A peak Bowe might take some punishment early on, but the first time he hits Tyson solidly, it would take alot of the agression out of Iron Make. Bowe TKO 11.

bollox · Post by **bollox** » 24 Mar 2006, 11:49

Tyson makes the early running and Bowe weathers the storm and KO's Tyson about round 10

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 24 Mar 2006, 14:12

Tyson's defense is not even CLOSE to being the best in HW history.

Jack Dempsey, Jack Johnson, Gene Tunney, Jack Sharkey, Jersey Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles, Sonny Liston (yes, Liston had a great defense if you look at the film), prime Ali, and Larry Holmes were all harder to hit cleanly than Tyson, who after the first 3 rounds was flat-footed for the majority of the fight and failed to move his head too much. Green, Tillis, Tucker, Tubbs, Bruno etc. . . . not offensively great fighters by any means, hit Mike numerous times.

However, I slightly favor Tyson in this matchup. Bowe had his flashes of brilliance but he would always have those lazy rounds and I see Tyson taking advantage of the big man's open body and coming up top to place a hard finishing blow around round 6. If Bowe is still there by the 8th round the fight is his.

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 25 Mar 2006, 03:33

I'd say Bowe would win. He had very great power, and at his best he could have been one of the all-time greats. Size, power, great jab, maybe not best defense---but all around a very good fighter.

He beat Holyfield twice, once by TKO, and Tyson never even came close to doing any damage really to Holyfield (minus the ear incident).

Tyson would have tried and tried to dig deep uppercuts into Bowe, and really beat on him---but I think Bowe was never one to be intimidated, and would have pushed Tyson. Tyson wouldn't have given up, but he would have been frustrated and mentally break down---that's how he was.

I mean look at Tyson when he fought McBride, he just gave up because he couldn't put away the guy like he wanted. He bit Holyfield's ear cus he couldnt do anything with him. He tried breaking Botha's arm cus Botha was actually giving him a hard fight.

Tyson in his entire career, even as an amateur would shut down if he felt unconfident or felt like he was getting pushed around---he had the skills and the punch to have been possibly the greatest champion of all time---but he just didn't have it in his mind.

I'd see it being either a late round KO or a decision win for Bowe, that is if the fat bastard got into shape and laid off the ice creme and donuts.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 25 Mar 2006, 05:11

Jack Dempsey, Jack Johnson, Gene Tunney, Jack Sharkey, Jersey Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles, Sonny Liston (yes, Liston had a great defense if you look at the film), prime Ali, and Larry Holmes were all harder to hit cleanly than Tyson

well that will be your little secret

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 25 Mar 2006, 05:12

Seamus wrote:Tony Tucker took a peak Tyson out of his fight plan with one punch in the 1st round of there 1987 fight and made him respect his power for the duration of the bout. Bonecrusher Smith wobbled a peak Tyson in the final minute of there unification bout the same year with his only real punch of the fight. Riddick Bowe dealt with adversity alot better than Tyson, who thrived on his opponent being terrified. A peak Bowe might take some punishment early on, but the first time he hits Tyson solidly, it would take alot of the agression out of Iron Make. Bowe TKO 11.

bowe does not have the chin or recup powers to take punches from the 2nd greatest heavyweight puncher of all time

Arsenal · Post by **Arsenal** » 25 Mar 2006, 07:04

BB49 I respect you and think you know alot about boxing. BUT when it comes to Tyson you talk b*ll*ks! Sorry to say that but I can't believe some of the drivel you come out with. You use an old, past his prime, inactive Holmes to back up your opinions of Tyson. I doubt Tyson would have done that to Holmes in his prime. As for Biggs he had only had 15 fights when he fought Tyson and 2 years laster was battered by Gary Mason who would struggle to get into the top 10 Britsh HW. So using him is ridiculous. Look at the facts not what you want to look at. Tyson had great physical attributes and I think hewould give most fighters in any era a good fight. He dominated the HW scene and cleaned it up. BUT he always struggled against big guys who weren't scared. He dominated a weak era and got beat by the biggest underdog in history! When the going got tough Tyson crumbled. He was good and would make a top 15 HW all time time list. But he had so many flaws that were eventually exploited. I really disliked Bowe and don't think he was that good but I think he would have to much size and power along with not being intimidated to beat Tyson in the later rounds after Tyson lost heart after not taking him out early.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 25 Mar 2006, 08:46

Arsenal wrote:BB49 I respect you and think you know alot about boxing. BUT when it comes to Tyson you talk b*ll*ks! Sorry to say that but I can't believe some of the drivel you come out with. You use an old, past his prime, inactive Holmes to back up your opinions of Tyson. I doubt Tyson would have done that to Holmes in his prime. As for Biggs he had only had 15 fights when he fought Tyson and 2 years laster was battered by Gary Mason who would struggle to get into the top 10 Britsh HW. So using him is ridiculous. Look at the facts not what you want to look at. Tyson had great physical attributes and I think hewould give most fighters in any era a good fight. He dominated the HW scene and cleaned it up. BUT he always struggled against big guys who weren't scared. He dominated a weak era and got beat by the biggest underdog in history! When the going got tough Tyson crumbled. He was good and would make a top 15 HW all time time list. But he had so many flaws that were eventually exploited. I really disliked Bowe and don't think he was that good but I think he would have to much size and power along with not being intimidated to beat Tyson in the later rounds after Tyson lost heart after not taking him out early.

As for Biggs he had only had 15 fights when he fought Tyson and 2 years laster was battered by Gary Mason who would struggle to get into the top 10 Britsh HW. So using him is ridiculous.

tyson ruined briggs he was never the same after the tyson fight. kinda like rex layne with rocky marciano, never the same after. briggs was a good fighter when he fought tyson.

BUT he always struggled against big guys who weren't scared.

im pretty sure he twice decisevly beat razor ruddock who defintley wasnt scared and who was a very dangerous fighter. that wasnt even a prime tyson in there either.

- bowe was very hittable. tyson was the 2nd greatest puncher in heavyweight history. he was much harder to hit than bowe was. bowe loved to keep fights at mid range, and tyson will tear him apart at mid range with his body attack and combinations. bowe will not be able to deal with tysons combination of speed and power. i think bowe had a vunerable chin. part of the reason holy had so much trouble with bowe is he wasnt a big puncher. holy had nowhere near the power or punching abilities of mike tyson. still, holy nearly knocked out bowe in the 3rd fight. tyson at his peak mid-late 80s was a machine who just would not be stopped by most heavyweights in history, bowe being one of them.

He dominated a weak era

pinklon thomas
razor ruddock
tony tucker
tony tubbs
michael spinks
old larry holmes
frank bruno
bonecrusher smith
tim witherspoon
trevor berbick
evander holyfield
carl williams

you call that "weak"?

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 25 Mar 2006, 09:43

It occurs to me that this could take place here and now since they both are semi active. Any ideas who wins this for the record today? Would it draw as a novelty? My guess is that it might.