Destroy Your Idols.

[Kalan]

This from Tyson Fury's good buddy and longtime friend, Billy Joe Saunders...

"Fury has not built up a reservoir of goodwill with either the media or the many fans who have booked tickets, trains and hotels for the October rematch and the original rematch in July. Will the fans trust him in the future? Will promoters trust him any more and book a hold of a stadium or arena wondering if he will ever turn up? He has put himself in a really difficult position here."

[EdwinValero]

Roy Jones Jr.

Lost twice to Antonio Tarver, which was the beginning of a streak of 7 losses in 12. After beating Jeff Lacy in 09, he was demolished in 1 round by an average Danny Green. Has somewhat tarnished his legacy by continuing to fight bums for no apparent reason (unless he's skint).

Oh and I almost forgot a shocking attempt at a music career

[SteveO]

This from Tyson Fury's good buddy and longtime friend, Billy Joe Saunders...

"Fury has not built up a reservoir of goodwill with either the media or the many fans who have booked tickets, trains and hotels for the October rematch and the original rematch in July. Will the fans trust him in the future? Will promoters trust him any more and book a hold of a stadium or arena wondering if he will ever turn up? He has put himself in a really difficult position here."

This is very true Kalan.
The same can be said about David Haye - probably more so.
They have both cost their fans a lot of money with their fight cancellations.

[gilgamesh]

Roy Jones Jr.

Lost twice to Antonio Tarver, which was the beginning of a streak of 7 losses in 12. After beating Jeff Lacy in 09, he was demolished in 1 round by an average Danny Green. Has somewhat tarnished his legacy by continuing to fight bums for no apparent reason (unless he's skint).

Oh and I almost forgot a shocking attempt at a music career

You Must've Forgot

[davie]

Archie Moore's an easy one, let's be honest, the guy was a bit crap.

In his early career he was beaten in 6, 8 and 10 rounders by fighters far short of world class. As he approached world level, he was beaten 4 out of 8 against Chase, Wade, Booker and Burley, spending more time on the floor in those final 2 fights than he did standing up.
Holman Williams, Harold Johnson and Jimmy Bivins rank among his best wins and all 3 beat him, Bivins giving him hell
Then Ezzard Charles got hold of him, showing him he never belonged in the elite level.
It went downhill from there, 1st round knockout at domestic level, lost to the lowly Henry Hall, showed what a dirty fighter he is, being DQ'd twice in a year

We hear about his longevity, but he ended his career with embarrassment after embarrassment at heavyweight. The only man in history to lose to both Marciano and Ali and his most notable win late on, was notable because he had to drag his sorry ass off the canvas 3 times in a round against Yvon Durelle. (who's Yvon Durelle I hear you cry? Well I would if he hadn't rose to fame for flattening Moore 4 times in a bout)
And eventually he was stripped of his LHW title, in disgace, for refusal to defend it

He lost 23 times, he was stopped 7 times, 54 people managed to go the distance with the so called KO artist (3 of his knock outs came against pro wrestlers in their pro boxing debut)

And that's how his career ended, like Floyd Mayweather, in disgrace, fighting a joke fight vs Mike Dibiase.

Not all lost though, he went on to teach big George how to club someone to submission, one of the least technically gifted ATG's learnt to wrestle from the mongoose
Not to mention mentoring Foreman to his most famous loss.

A truly dire career

[Kalan]

I think it's rather interesting though... From Archie Moore's 121st fight through his 177th fight he only had 1 DQ loss and 1 very close loss to Harold Johnson, who he beat the following month... Based on punishment meted out, Moore should have won all 5 fights he had with Johnson - instead of 4 of 5. It seems like Johnson was given style points in his lone win, which I don't think is cool.. Moore was really peaking big time in that stretch of 57 fights.

You did a great job of destroying him though... If Boxrec read that they'd have to demote him from their All Time Greatest Light Heavyweight in history spot.

[cfang]

lol this is a great effort.

quote="davie"]Archie Moore's an easy one, let's be honest, the guy was a bit crap.

In his early career he was beaten in 6, 8 and 10 rounders by fighters far short of world class. As he approached world level, he was beaten 4 out of 8 against Chase, Wade, Booker and Burley, spending more time on the floor in those final 2 fights than he did standing up.
Holman Williams, Harold Johnson and Jimmy Bivins rank among his best wins and all 3 beat him, Bivins giving him hell
Then Ezzard Charles got hold of him, showing him he never belonged in the elite level.
It went downhill from there, 1st round knockout at domestic level, lost to the lowly Henry Hall, showed what a dirty fighter he is, being DQ'd twice in a year

We hear about his longevity, but he ended his career with embarrassment after embarrassment at heavyweight. The only man in history to lose to both Marciano and Ali and his most notable win late on, was notable because he had to drag his sorry ass off the canvas 3 times in a round against Yvon Durelle. (who's Yvon Durelle I hear you cry? Well I would if he hadn't rose to fame for flattening Moore 4 times in a bout)
And eventually he was stripped of his LHW title, in disgace, for refusal to defend it

He lost 23 times, he was stopped 7 times, 54 people managed to go the distance with the so called KO artist (3 of his knock outs came against pro wrestlers in their pro boxing debut)

And that's how his career ended, like Floyd Mayweather, in disgrace, fighting a joke fight vs Mike Dibiase.

Not all lost though, he went on to teach big George how to club someone to submission, one of the least technically gifted ATG's learnt to wrestle from the mongoose
Not to mention mentoring Foreman to his most famous loss.

A truly dire career[/quote]

[Caractacus]

that was Moses who originally had said that, right ?

[davie]

You did a great job of destroying him though...

lol this is a great effort.

Shows how subjective it all is and why we can pick holes in each others arguments no matter how good a fighter is

[Kalan]

Some criticisms are legitimate and many aren't... Robinson not having that great a record in actual title fights, but padding his record up like crazy in non-title fights is legitimate criticism... Calling Henry Armstrong a dirty fighter who got away with numerous foul tactics in almost every fight is a legitimate critique... Saying Muhammad Ali had no body attack or inside game is legitimate.

Saying Anthony Joshua is a muscle bound freak who can't get out of his own way is total BS... Claiming Andre Ward's wins over Sergei Kovalev are legitimate is total BS... Saying Mayweather ducked the top Welterweights to fight Andre Bero and Conor McGregor is a fact.

[BitPlayer]

I'd like to suggest trying the opposite. Compliment boxers you hate.

[Tony1244]

I'd like to suggest trying the opposite. Compliment boxers you hate.

Ok, Mayweather is an all time great.
Broner is a very good boxer.
Johnny Tapia had a lot of talent.

[Boxerbeetle]

Archie Moore's an easy one, let's be honest, the guy was a bit crap.

In his early career he was beaten in 6, 8 and 10 rounders by fighters far short of world class. As he approached world level, he was beaten 4 out of 8 against Chase, Wade, Booker and Burley, spending more time on the floor in those final 2 fights than he did standing up.
Holman Williams, Harold Johnson and Jimmy Bivins rank among his best wins and all 3 beat him, Bivins giving him hell
Then Ezzard Charles got hold of him, showing him he never belonged in the elite level.
It went downhill from there, 1st round knockout at domestic level, lost to the lowly Henry Hall, showed what a dirty fighter he is, being DQ'd twice in a year

We hear about his longevity, but he ended his career with embarrassment after embarrassment at heavyweight. The only man in history to lose to both Marciano and Ali and his most notable win late on, was notable because he had to drag his sorry ass off the canvas 3 times in a round against Yvon Durelle. (who's Yvon Durelle I hear you cry? Well I would if he hadn't rose to fame for flattening Moore 4 times in a bout)
And eventually he was stripped of his LHW title, in disgace, for refusal to defend it

He lost 23 times, he was stopped 7 times, 54 people managed to go the distance with the so called KO artist (3 of his knock outs came against pro wrestlers in their pro boxing debut)

And that's how his career ended, like Floyd Mayweather, in disgrace, fighting a joke fight vs Mike Dibiase.

Not all lost though, he went on to teach big George how to club someone to submission, one of the least technically gifted ATG's learnt to wrestle from the mongoose
Not to mention mentoring Foreman to his most famous loss.

A truly dire career

That almost convinced me. Well played sir

[ElJefe]

this is hard to do but

manny pacquiao moved through the weights in a very suspicious manner, Now seems to have lost his power overnight. Marquez koed him and was robbed other times. Can't seem to handle counter punchers. Was pretty much outclassed by floyd. Can't seem to handle big straight right hands. Oscar was totally shot, Cotto had to cut weight.

Was going to do Pacquiao as well, I'd add that he never really developed his right hand enough either so was at times over reliant on his straight left.

[Tomasino]

Sam Langford started out poor and ended up the same at the end. He looked crude in his first ten or so bouts but went on to out box the legendary Joe Gans in his first year of boxing, going on to an unlucky draw against the great welterweight Joe Walcott. After such promise it all went down hill, except for his weight. Bouncing around between middleweight and heavyweight for a couple of years before corpulence took over and he had no choice but to fight heavyweights. Johnson licked him handily then rightly denied him a title shot for the rest of his prime, leaving him to win and lose to the men Jack wouldn't face himself. Eventually he got a lucky punch on Harry Wills chin but that was before he went blind. His luck was in again against an up and comer named Flowers when he knocked out a man he couldn't even see, who would go on to hold the World crown. Sometimes called the greatest fighter to never win a world title, I don't know why...

[Bodyshot3]

I'd like to suggest trying the opposite. Compliment boxers you hate.

Henry Maske frequently got the job done (teeth firmly gritted)

Chris Eubank - on balance - had Benn's number and deserves some credit for that.

David Haye was an outstanding cruiserweight champion and probably made a decent fist of his career at HW.

[Kalan]

I'd like to suggest trying the opposite. Compliment boxers you hate.

Rather than hate -- because I don't hate anyone -- I would say try to compliment boxers who you think are way overrated.

Tommy Hearns had quick hands and feet, and decent footwork.. He had a nice jab and straight right.. He out-boxed Leonard for most rounds of their fights.

Wilfred Benitez was a good rhythm fighter who slipped punches well.. He flummoxed Duran and boxed the ass off of Carlos Palomino.

Muhammad Ali had fast hands and feet.. He could absorb a Hell of a chin shot.

Sugar Ray Robinson had tremendous heart and an indomitable fighting spirit. He was decked a few times for 9-counts, but always made it to his feet.

Rocky Marciano was a really tough man... deceptively clever... and always had a positive attitude about his chances no matter how a fight was going.

Joe Calzaghe had a tremendous chin and very fast hands... Forget it if you decked him -- because that's when he turned on the juice.

[Tony1244]

I watched Larry Holmes vs Mike Weaver last night.

I have Holmes rated top 10 HW All Time, but against Mike Weaver that night in MSG he looked like Lawrence Clay Bey or Larry Donald.

[Kalan]

Clay Bey and Donald never took that caliber fighter out in that manner, of course -- but isn't it funny how you can do that with anyone because you don't have your greatest performance every time out... Ali-Evangelista had to be the low point for Ali... Also his 1st Norton fight.

Watching Jimmy Young get hit by Ossie Ocasio (who Holmes murdered) you ask, "How did this little punchless punk ever beat George Foreman?"

[Nile4000]

Bernard Taylor never fought the quality competition he needed to get better. Even though I feel he beat Eusebio, he definitely didn't look good doing it. In his hometown, nonetheless.

[elmersalsa]

Bernard Taylor never fought the quality competition he needed to get better. Even though I feel he beat Eusebio, he definitely didn't look good doing it. In his hometown, nonetheless.

You cannot win a fight by running like a chicken and not throwing punches. You gotta overwhelm the champion. Bernard Taylor got lucky for the draw. I saw the great Eusebio Pedroza retaining the title.

[Kalan]

Bernard Taylor never fought the quality competition he needed to get better. Even though I feel he beat Eusebio, he definitely didn't look good doing it. In his hometown, nonetheless.

You cannot win a fight by running like a chicken and not throwing punches. You gotta overwhelm the champion. Bernard Taylor got lucky for the draw. I saw the great Eusebio Pedroza retaining the title.

Eusebio Pedroza looked terrible against Alfonso Zamora... Go to 2 minutes of this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrlGdRCttjk

Right hand/Left hook ... over... Destroyed your idol.

[elmersalsa]

Bernard Taylor never fought the quality competition he needed to get better. Even though I feel he beat Eusebio, he definitely didn't look good doing it. In his hometown, nonetheless.

You cannot win a fight by running like a chicken and not throwing punches. You gotta overwhelm the champion. Bernard Taylor got lucky for the draw. I saw the great Eusebio Pedroza retaining the title.

Eusebio Pedroza looked terrible against Alfonso Zamora... Go to 2 minutes of this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrlGdRCttjk

Right hand/Left hook ... over... Destroyed your idol.

That was a green Eusebio Pedroza. His own countrymen at the time, didn't give him much of a chance to beat a knockout artist and champion like Alfonso Zamora. Pedroza didn't had enough fights to prove anything. Plus, the weight class was not a perfect weight class for his tall frame.

Do you think Zamora had a chance against Pedroza at featherweight?

[Kalan]

Do you think Zamora had a chance against Pedroza at featherweight?

I don't know, but Zamora never got to Featherweight... His career was done when he was 26 cuz Zarate destroyed him... His chin was history after that.

[elmersalsa]

Do you think Zamora had a chance against Pedroza at featherweight?

I don't know, but Zamora never got to Featherweight... His career was done when he was 26 cuz Zarate destroyed him... His chin was history after that.

By the time the great Eusebio Pedroza got to featherweight, he was stronger and was getting better and better. The bantamweight division proved that he was not in the right weight class for his height. I don't think Alfonso Zamora would have beat him at featherweight.