Joe Louis vs. Mike Tyson

[Ambling Alp II]

His point was that often a lighter fighter beats a heavier fighter. The needle on the scale doesn't win you fights.
If it was, Louis would have lost to guys much bigger than Tyson.
Tyson was more powerful than Douglas. He was also faster. And he still lost.

You are ignoring many factors. Louis was taller and had a longer reach. He had a better jab. He was better defensively. He was tougher. He was a more accurate puncher. He was a smarter fighter than Tyson who unlike Tyson had a Plan B.

All you keep saying is that Louis would not be able to take Tyson's power. As if Louis would have just stood there wide open and let Tyson nail him.

Since Louis was more accurate and better defensively, Louis would land more often and would be more likely to land his best shot first.
What happens if Louis nails Tyson with a major shot? You seriously don't think he could hurt him? Louis was one of the best finishers the sport ever saw when he hurt a guy.

yes yes but did you ever see mikes biceps, they were huge compared to louis

Always love it when people who like to pick out the numbers ignore it when it doesn't favor their guy. Usually with the more modern fighter, people will point to the stats that will usually favor them (WBS title defenses, win/loss records, etc.) They can't even do that with Tyson, so we are going with weights of the fighters (and carefully chosen their opponents), as if that is some full proof system. Then it gets ignored when it's pointed out that Louis beat fighters who weighed than Tyson.
People that love to point out heights and reach are quiet about it this time.

Tyson weighed more than Louis and Louis had a fight where he struggled against a smaller guy. Nothing more to see here.

Just crazy to talk about fighting ability, isn't it?

[Tomasino]

His point was that often a lighter fighter beats a heavier fighter. The needle on the scale doesn't win you fights.
If it was, Louis would have lost to guys much bigger than Tyson.
Tyson was more powerful than Douglas. He was also faster. And he still lost.

You are ignoring many factors. Louis was taller and had a longer reach. He had a better jab. He was better defensively. He was tougher. He was a more accurate puncher. He was a smarter fighter than Tyson who unlike Tyson had a Plan B.

All you keep saying is that Louis would not be able to take Tyson's power. As if Louis would have just stood there wide open and let Tyson nail him.

Since Louis was more accurate and better defensively, Louis would land more often and would be more likely to land his best shot first.
What happens if Louis nails Tyson with a major shot? You seriously don't think he could hurt him? Louis was one of the best finishers the sport ever saw when he hurt a guy.

yes yes but did you ever see mikes biceps, they were huge compared to louis

Always love it when people who like to pick out the numbers ignore it when it doesn't favor their guy. Usually with the more modern fighter, people will point to the stats that will usually favor them (WBS title defenses, win/loss records, etc.) They can't even do that with Tyson, so we are going with weights of the fighters (and carefully chosen their opponents), as if that is some full proof system. Then it gets ignored when it's pointed out that Louis beat fighters who weighed than Tyson.
People that love to point out heights and reach are quiet about it this time.

Tyson weighed more than Louis and Louis had a fight where he struggled against a smaller guy. Nothing more to see here.

Just crazy to talk about fighting ability, isn't it?

Not boxing but its pertinent...Kimbo Slice vs DaDa2000. Two massive guys, supposed street fighters and tough guys. They get in the cage together and combine to do no damage to each other whatsoever aside from blow themselves out and almost die of cardio vascular ailments. DaDa was in hospital for a month after and KImbo died a few months later. Thats what all the extra, steroid muscle does for you, nothing thats useful in the ring. Look at Joshua recently exhausted just from beating on inept fighters, with very little coming back.

Joe Louis was an athlete, perfectly honed for speed and power. He was far more accurate than Mike and therefore would have hit him hard right where it hurt many times. I bet even Mike himself would say Louis would beat him and hes hardly a humble guy.

I know one thing for certain; that he would never be so stupid as to claim he'd beat Joe Louis based on muscle size, or by KO.

I also believe that Tyson, like all the other top fighters of his era, was on steroids and performance enhancing drugs. Give Joe Louis just one 6 month course of gear with a modern diet and he is 220lbs easy. He might be worse off for it however.

[Kalan]

[Lets no forget Louis was also knocked out his prime by a fighter who never weighed over todays CW limit in his entire career. Schmeling had previously been knocked out in the first and second round by other opponents too.

Joe Louis was not just stopped by the 192-pound Max Schmeling... He was knocked stiff...

Louis was down and out for the count and made no attempt to get up as the numbers tolled off... Tyson was knocked down by Holyfield with a punch to the chest as he was off balance... He finished the fight on his feet in the 11th. Holyfield was a much bigger, more formidable, versatile, and accomplished Heavyweight Champion than Schmeling was.

For icing Louis, Schmeling was supposed to get a shot at Heavyweight Champ Jimmy Braddock .... Schmeling was not only denied the Title Fight, they kept Braddock idle for over 2 years... Who got the next shot??? .... Louis of course.... Schmeling had a hard time getting any fight after he flattened Louis... Louis went on a tear with 7 fights while Braddock did nothing at all.

Another demonstration of how corrupt and manipulated the sport was.

[Tomasino]

[Lets no forget Louis was also knocked out his prime by a fighter who never weighed over todays CW limit in his entire career. Schmeling had previously been knocked out in the first and second round by other opponents too.

Joe Louis was not just stopped by the 192-pound Max Schmeling... He was knocked stiff...

Louis was down and out for the count and made no attempt to get up as the numbers tolled off... Tyson was knocked down by Holyfield with a punch to the chest as he was off balance... He finished the fight on his feet in the 11th. Holyfield was a much bigger, more formidable, versatile, and accomplished Heavyweight Champion than Schmeling was.

For icing Louis, Schmeling was supposed to get a shot at Heavyweight Champ Jimmy Braddock .... Schmeling was not only denied the Title Fight, they kept Braddock idle for over 2 years... Who got the next shot??? .... Louis of course.... Schmeling had a hard time getting any fight after he flattened Louis... Louis went on a tear with 7 fights while Braddock did nothing at all.

Another demonstration of how corrupt and manipulated the sport was.

Kalan, you’ve hidden behind a fake identity that is more outlandish than even TML. Until you come clean, nobody on the forum takes you seriously. It’s time to come out the closet kid

[Counter-puncher]

Not boxing but its pertinent...Kimbo Slice vs DaDa2000. Two massive guys, supposed street fighters and tough guys. They get in the cage together and combine to do no damage to each other whatsoever aside from blow themselves out and almost die of cardio vascular ailments. .

[Kalan]

I also believe that Tyson, like all the other top fighters of his era, was on steroids and performance enhancing drugs. Give Joe Louis just one 6 month course of gear with a modern diet and he is 220lbs easy. He might be worse off for it however

All top fighters were NOT on steroids in Tyson's era... Steroids were illegal starting in the 70's... They started testing for them... Cheaters got caught... Masking methods and agents didn't help you they're on the list as well... Look at all the millionaire boxers who got caught... Victor Conte is supposed to be one of the smartest guys in the business right?? His clients got caught and banned and Conte went to prison for distribution of PEDs.

The only PED Tyson was flagged for was marijuana... He took a drag at a party and didn't realize it was listed.

Tyson didn't need any steroids... He had genes... As a teenager he was a solid 221 for Conroy Nelson, a 6'4" X 216 guy who went the 10-round distance with Razor Ruddock... Young Mike took him out very easily in 2 rounds, barely breaking a sweat. He could already slip, duck, dodge, and counter punches better than Louis ever did... Fight starts at 2:02 of video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58RCBfNSqV4

As for 6'6" X 250 Antony Joshua looking "exhausted against inept fighters with nothing coming back" In his 19th pro fight he beat a 6'7" X 240 ATG Heavyweight Champion is one of the greatest Heavyweight fights off all time... He threw a ton of punches and combinations...and there was a ton of punches coming back at him... He never flagged....and scored an 11th round KO behind hard flurries that put Klitschko away for the 1st time in over 13 years... AJ kept the pressure on in the championship rounds as Klitschko started to flag big time and wiped him out.

Just the opposite of what many theorists who said he was too bulked up with no endurance -- like a young George Foreman -- and would get knocked out if the fight went into the championship rounds.

What people don't understand.....if you're a super athlete who smashes everybody in the SuperStars Competition like AJ -- instead being a laughing stock like pudgy Joe Frazier -- and you're bigger, stronger, and faster than the competition, those gloves feel a lot lighter on your hands.... You rip off hard punches and combinations with less effort if you're twice as powerful... Therefore the other guy is going to run out of gas and you'll waste him in the late rounds.

But if you're a horrendous athlete with 5th rate skills -- such as Carnera, Simon, and Baer who coudn't get out of of their own way or duck or slip any punches -- then size won't help you against anyone who has any ability at all.

[Counter-puncher]

[Tomasino]

Bear and Simon would have eaten you as a snack before breakfast you utter goon.

[Controversial]

yes yes but did you ever see mikes biceps, they were huge compared to louis

Always love it when people who like to pick out the numbers ignore it when it doesn't favor their guy. Usually with the more modern fighter, people will point to the stats that will usually favor them (WBS title defenses, win/loss records, etc.) They can't even do that with Tyson, so we are going with weights of the fighters (and carefully chosen their opponents), as if that is some full proof system. Then it gets ignored when it's pointed out that Louis beat fighters who weighed than Tyson.
People that love to point out heights and reach are quiet about it this time.

Tyson weighed more than Louis and Louis had a fight where he struggled against a smaller guy. Nothing more to see here.

Just crazy to talk about fighting ability, isn't it?

Not boxing but its pertinent...Kimbo Slice vs DaDa2000. Two massive guys, supposed street fighters and tough guys. They get in the cage together and combine to do no damage to each other whatsoever aside from blow themselves out and almost die of cardio vascular ailments. DaDa was in hospital for a month after and KImbo died a few months later. Thats what all the extra, steroid muscle does for you, nothing thats useful in the ring. Look at Joshua recently exhausted just from beating on inept fighters, with very little coming back.

Joe Louis was an athlete, perfectly honed for speed and power. He was far more accurate than Mike and therefore would have hit him hard right where it hurt many times. I bet even Mike himself would say Louis would beat him and hes hardly a humble guy.

I know one thing for certain; that he would never be so stupid as to claim he'd beat Joe Louis based on muscle size, or by KO.

I also believe that Tyson, like all the other top fighters of his era, was on steroids and performance enhancing drugs. Give Joe Louis just one 6 month course of gear with a modern diet and he is 220lbs easy. He might be worse off for it however.

As I said previously no one is basing it entirely on size so your Kimbo example is just ridiculous and irrelevant. Have you seen Kimbo box, he was knackered after one round, you might as well mentioned Lenny McLean.

This original thread was from 2014, I commented on it back then and said size and chin would be the key. I am still saying the same now. If this was Louis vs. David Price, who is about as big and strong as you can get, then I wouldn't be putting my money on Price as he is slow, has no stamina and can't take a punch. His only chance would be to try and knock Louis out early, which isn't impossible but unlikely.

Although also irrelevant who Tyson thinks he could beat he actually done a talk show where they showed him photos of various people and asked him who would beat him in a fight. Some were piss-takes like Rocky Balboa, Robert DeNiro in Raging Bull and Tyson would joke that they would beat him. The ones he appeared to give honest answers to were real fighters. He said Ali would beat him, Foreman would be close and he would beat Louis.

[Controversial]

Conn weighed 174 when he fought Louis the first time and 182 the second.

Fact.

Conn fought 7 guys aside from Louis who were Heavies to his light heavy, he beat them all.

Fact.

174lbs was announced but the boxing commissioners let slip he was actually 169lbs but beefed it up to make it look better. Louis was said to actually be 204lbs, not 199.5lb. Either way Conn was no heavyweight, he outpointed the 227lb Jay D Turner after losing to Louis, Turner had previously been knocked out by the 151lb Charley Burley.

[Kalan]

Bear and Simon would have eaten you as a snack before breakfast you utter goon.

I'd kick your nuts up your lying ying yang A-hole...You wouldn't make half a snack twerp.

[Kalan]

There were Heavyweights who would beat a peak Tyson for sure.... Great big, tall, strong, fast, savage punching, and very skillful guys like Lewis take him out.... But anyone 6'2" X 212 (like Michael Spinks) he blows away like a runaway tank.

[Tomasino]

Bear and Simon would have eaten you as a snack before breakfast you utter goon.

I'd kick your nuts up your lying ying yang A-hole...You wouldn't make half a snack twerp.

Who are you then? Who was your trainer? Your rank in the military? Otherwise don’t wet your nappy, pea brain. Get mum to tuck you in

[Kalan]

You're already tucked in the head.... Piss off creep.

[MrGuy]

I never take fanboys seriously in general, and tyson fanboys in particular. I find most of the junk they write half witted to be honest.

Fact.

Conn weighed 174 when he fought Louis the first time and 182 the second.

Fact.

Conn fought 7 guys aside from Louis who were Heavies to his light heavy, he beat them all.

Fact.

Only one man KO'd Billy Conn in 76 fights.

Tyson fans are thick enough to believe all he had to do was turn up, chin a guy, and hey presto, it is all over. Utter bollox. You don't do that to a fighter of Joe Louis's class.

Fact.

Everytime Tyson went up in class he got battered to eff and stopped.

I have zero interest in moronic opinions that claim 38 year old Holmes who hadn't fought for 20 months was still a top class Heavyweight, or the Light Heavy Spinks. Same goes for Tucker, Smith, Tubbs, Tillis, Berbick, Bruno and the one trick pony Rudduck with his " hookercut "

Anyone who gets completely destroyed by Buster, Holy, and Lewis the way Tyson did ain't beating Joe Louis, thats for sure.

Fact........adding five pounds to his weight doesn't make getting embarassed Conn look any better. Tyson was done well before Holyfield and Lewis. So losing to them out of his prime is embarassing, but getting smacked around by a super middleweight for most of a fight isn't? Either of those fighters walks through prime Louis.

[Tomasino]

You're already tucked in the head.... Piss off creep.

Stop making silly threats and comments you can’t back up. You are the laughing stock of the forum yet you still turn up everyday to be humiliated. Put up or shut up, weirdo.

[Counter-puncher]

There were Heavyweights who would beat a peak Tyson for sure.... .... But anyone 6'2" X 212 (like Michael Spinks) he blows away like a runaway tank.

yeah

like, there was this guy, you may have heard of him, his name was Evander Holyfield, he was around, uh, 6'2 and 215lbs

But anyone 6'2" X 212 he blows away like a runaway tank.



another rib-tickler from the King of Comedy

[Tomasino]

There were Heavyweights who would beat a peak Tyson for sure.... .... But anyone 6'2" X 212 (like Michael Spinks) he blows away like a runaway tank.

yeah

like, there was this guy, you may have heard of him, his name was Evander Holyfield, he was around, uh, 6'2 and 215lbs

But anyone 6'2" X 212 he blows away like a runaway tank.



another rib-tickler from the King of Comedy

He’s so consistent

[Kalan]

There were Heavyweights who would beat a peak Tyson for sure.... .... But anyone 6'2" X 212 (like Michael Spinks) he blows away like a runaway tank.

yeah

like, there was this guy, you may have heard of him, his name was Evander Holyfield, he was around, uh, 6'2 and 215lbs

[b]But anyone 6'2" X 212 he blows away like a runaway tank

It was a far different Mike Tyson who blew away Michael Spinks than the guy who faced a peak Evander Holyfield, who appeared to be somewhat enhanced... Holyfield was at this absolute peak for his 2 Tyson fights,

Joe Louis DIDN'T weigh a rock solid 215 and neither did Michael Spinks.... He carried 212 well -- but far from rock solid.

[Tomasino]

There were Heavyweights who would beat a peak Tyson for sure.... .... But anyone 6'2" X 212 (like Michael Spinks) he blows away like a runaway tank.

yeah

like, there was this guy, you may have heard of him, his name was Evander Holyfield, he was around, uh, 6'2 and 215lbs

But anyone 6'2" X 212 he blows away like a runaway tank

It was a far different Mike Tyson who blew away Michael Spinks than the guy who faced a peak Evander Holyfield, who appeared to be somewhat enhanced... Holyfield was at this absolute peak for his 2 Tyson fights,

Joe Louis DIDN'T weigh a rock solid 215 and neither did Michael Spinks.... He carried 212 well -- but far from rock solid.

[Kalan]

Everyone knows Tyson was at his peak for the Michael Spinks fight.... And was tailing off badly with the Holyfield fights.

Joe Louis never carried 215 pounds like that in his life.

[Tomasino]

Everyone knows Tyson was at his peak for the Michael Spinks fight.... And was tailing off badly with the Holyfield fights.

Joe Louis never carried 215 pounds like that in his life.

He didnt have to, he could knock 250lb guys cold with one punch at 200lbs.

[Kalan]

Everyone knows Tyson was at his peak for the Michael Spinks fight.... And was tailing off badly with the Holyfield fights.

Joe Louis never carried 215 pounds like that in his life.

He didnt have to, he could knock 250lb guys cold with one punch at 200lbs

Yeah!!! .... Bums with less coordination than Julius Long, Michael Grant, Tye Fields, or Frank Bruno had for Tyson 2.

Tyson got rid of Bruno by loading and throwing... Exactly what Louis got away with against lumbering oxen.

[HomicideHenry]

Tyson was too much for Louis.

[Tomasino]

Tyson was too much for Louis.

Tyson wasn't " enough " for any Heavyweight who seriously wanted to fight him, even the little Marciano might capitalise on Tyson's mental fragility ( see retardedness ) and he was never in Joe Louis class.

Never thought I’d see the day I also think Rocky would have scared Mike with his fearlessnes. One thing about Rocky, he came to hurt you even if you hurt him he wouldn’t stop. Mike would be demoralised by four rounds.