Who has the best Ring intelligence in boxing history?

[Kalan]

Oh bullshitt... Nothing laughable about getting a nationally televised fight when you're only 3-0.... fighting a 248-pound Heavyweight who has more experience -- and knocking the man out in 2 rounds... Jones had renowned Boxing trainer and commentator Gil Clancy and ATG fighter Archie Moore both making compliments on his improvement as a boxer. The ATG fighter Archie Moore told a nation wide TV audience he wanted to train Too Tall Jones... Doesn't sound like nobody was interested in a boxing talent like Too Tall.

And why did he have televised fights, because he was famous that's all. He was being laughed at in the press, and I laughed when I saw him fight, thats enough evidence for me.

He really was nothing...Jones is a sidebar to boxing history and certainly has no place on this thread.

You're being absolutely ridiculous, biased and dismissive and you KNOW IT!!! .... The facts are there oogie.

You say it's NOTHING to appear on nationwide TV and stop a more experienced opponent in 2 rounds??? Dishonest statement.. Too Tall showed considerable improvement in less than a month (according to renowned experts Gil Clancy and Archie Moore) and he DIDN'T even have a competent coach as yet...

Too Tall was obviously not an experienced or skillful boxer yet... NOBODY who's been boxing for a few weeks is going to be skillful UNLESS they're a 1 in a million born Natural .... or B. They have Jack Blackburn or Emmanuel Steward as their coach and they're working 12 hours a day, every day, on balance, speed, and skills...

Too Tall taught himself how to box up to that point... That's the case with 90% of boxers cuz there's only a handful of good coaches in the world... But IF boxers have real talent, renowned coaches such as Archie Moore and Gil Clancy WILL offer to train them... The mere fact that Archie Moore told us he was offering his services to Jones means he was so interested he was licking his lips... You don't make such statements on national TV if you don't see tons of potential there..

Too Tall missed a lot as any rook would, but he's so big and strong he absorbed punches with ease... When he landed an off balance punch with those huge rangy arms the fight was over... He was not the kind of man you'd pick a fight with.

Archie said he would make Too Tall a 50% better boxer in 30 days... He was being modest and understating it... A really great trainer could take that kind of raw material up 200 or 300% in 30 days.

[oogiebe]

And why did he have televised fights, because he was famous that's all. He was being laughed at in the press, and I laughed when I saw him fight, thats enough evidence for me.

He really was nothing...Jones is a sidebar to boxing history and certainly has no place on this thread.

You're being absolutely ridiculous, biased and dismissive and you KNOW IT!!! .... The facts are there oogie.

You say it's NOTHING to appear on nationwide TV and stop a more experienced opponent in 2 rounds??? Dishonest statement.. Too Tall showed considerable improvement in less than a month (according to renowned experts Gil Clancy and Archie Moore) and he DIDN'T even have a competent coach as yet...

Too Tall was obviously not an experienced or skillful boxer yet... NOBODY who's been boxing for a few weeks is going to be skillful UNLESS they're a 1 in a million born Natural .... or B. They have Jack Blackburn or Emmanuel Steward as their coach and they're working 12 hours a day, every day, on balance, speed, and skills...

Too Tall taught himself how to box up to that point... That's the case with 90% of boxers cuz there's only a handful of good coaches in the world... But IF boxers have real talent, renowned coaches such as Archie Moore and Gil Clancy WILL offer to train them... The mere fact that Archie Moore told us he was offering his services to Jones means he was so interested he was licking his lips... You don't make such statements on national TV if you don't see tons of potential there..

Too Tall missed a lot as any rook would, but he's so big and strong he absorbed punches with ease... When he landed an off balance punch with those huge rangy arms the fight was over... He was not the kind of man you'd pick a fight with.

Archie said he would make Too Tall a 50% better boxer in 30 days... He was being modest and understating it... A really great trainer could take that kind of raw material up 200 or 300% in 30 days.

So I disagree and therefore I'm "ridiculous, biased and dismissive." He was as close to being KO'd in his first fight as anyone I've ever seen. If he was that good, or that much potential, some heavy hitting promoter would've picked him up. So please...stop your nonsense for once.

[Kalan]

He really was nothing...Jones is a sidebar to boxing history and certainly has no place on this thread.

You're being absolutely ridiculous, biased and dismissive and you KNOW IT!!! .... The facts are there oogie.

You say it's NOTHING to appear on nationwide TV and stop a more experienced opponent in 2 rounds??? Dishonest statement.. Too Tall showed considerable improvement in less than a month (according to renowned experts Gil Clancy and Archie Moore) and he DIDN'T even have a competent coach as yet...

Too Tall was obviously not an experienced or skillful boxer yet... NOBODY who's been boxing for a few weeks is going to be skillful UNLESS they're a 1 in a million born Natural .... or B. They have Jack Blackburn or Emmanuel Steward as their coach and they're working 12 hours a day, every day, on balance, speed, and skills...

Too Tall taught himself how to box up to that point... That's the case with 90% of boxers cuz there's only a handful of good coaches in the world... But IF boxers have real talent, renowned coaches such as Archie Moore and Gil Clancy WILL offer to train them... The mere fact that Archie Moore told us he was offering his services to Jones means he was so interested he was licking his lips... You don't make such statements on national TV if you don't see tons of potential there..

Too Tall missed a lot as any rook would, but he's so big and strong he absorbed punches with ease... When he landed an off balance punch with those huge rangy arms the fight was over... He was not the kind of man you'd pick a fight with.

Archie said he would make Too Tall a 50% better boxer in 30 days... He was being modest and understating it... A really great trainer could take that kind of raw material up 200 or 300% in 30 days.

So I disagree and therefore I'm "ridiculous, biased and dismissive." He was as close to being KO'd in his first fight as anyone I've ever seen. If he was that good, or that much potential, some heavy hitting promoter would've picked him up. So please...stop your nonsense for once.

exaggerating man... Too Tall was NOT as close to being stopped as any boxer you've ever seen... Did he lurch and wobble around when he got up -- like Larry Homes when Snipes nailed him??? Was he driven around the ring on wobbly legs like Ali was in the 11th round in Frazier 1??? NO!!! ... Too Tall was PHYSICALLY SHOVED TO THE CANVAS and while he was SITTING ON HIS BUTT WITH HIS GLOVES ON THE CANVAS he was hit with a massively loaded left hook... A FOUL BLOW... Most fighters would get DQ'd for that... He came back and won the fight, his pro debut... That's NOT a negative.

WHY did Too Tall Jones fight 2 MORE TIMES IN THE NEXT 3 WEEKS if he was HURT??? .... He WASN'T hurt.

"Heavy hitting" promoters were lined up with Heavyweight Contenders or Larry Holmes... They did everything in their power to STOP Too Tall Jones from getting a significant fight... The last opponent who was thrown at Too Tall was a disgrace to the human race... They wanted to embarrass Too Tall and they did... They wanted him out of Boxing.

Do you match a boxer with an experienced opponent with 31 fights and a winning record in his 3rd fight??? .... And then if he wins by KO in 41 seconds do you keep telling him you can't find an opponent -- and give him an atrocious boxer making his pro debut in his 6th fight??? .... Is THAT the kind of REGRESSION you give a promising Heavyweight????

You're IGNORING my points and questions... Why would Archie Moore tell a National Television audience he wanted to train Too Tall Jones if Jones didn't show any potential??? .... Don't make pejorative statements... Just answer the questions.

[APerno]

Hector Camacho was the most intelligent fighter I have witness. Even when he was out gunned he could make himself a difficult fight, e.g. Chavez, Trinidad, and Del LA Hoya. I was never a fan, sometimes even felt, by his non-performances, that I was robbed for my money, but never the less.

I am not as bought in to the brilliance of Ali as most are. His first fight against Frazier he allowed Frazier to control the fight; from the fifth tot he fifteenth he was out 'foot-worked' (to make up a word). With The Rumble in the Jungle, what I saw was an act of desperation work, not a brilliant strategy.

Just my two cents.

[oogiebe]

You're being absolutely ridiculous, biased and dismissive and you KNOW IT!!! .... The facts are there oogie.

You say it's NOTHING to appear on nationwide TV and stop a more experienced opponent in 2 rounds??? Dishonest statement.. Too Tall showed considerable improvement in less than a month (according to renowned experts Gil Clancy and Archie Moore) and he DIDN'T even have a competent coach as yet...

Too Tall was obviously not an experienced or skillful boxer yet... NOBODY who's been boxing for a few weeks is going to be skillful UNLESS they're a 1 in a million born Natural .... or B. They have Jack Blackburn or Emmanuel Steward as their coach and they're working 12 hours a day, every day, on balance, speed, and skills...

Too Tall taught himself how to box up to that point... That's the case with 90% of boxers cuz there's only a handful of good coaches in the world... But IF boxers have real talent, renowned coaches such as Archie Moore and Gil Clancy WILL offer to train them... The mere fact that Archie Moore told us he was offering his services to Jones means he was so interested he was licking his lips... You don't make such statements on national TV if you don't see tons of potential there..

Too Tall missed a lot as any rook would, but he's so big and strong he absorbed punches with ease... When he landed an off balance punch with those huge rangy arms the fight was over... He was not the kind of man you'd pick a fight with.

Archie said he would make Too Tall a 50% better boxer in 30 days... He was being modest and understating it... A really great trainer could take that kind of raw material up 200 or 300% in 30 days.

So I disagree and therefore I'm "ridiculous, biased and dismissive." He was as close to being KO'd in his first fight as anyone I've ever seen. If he was that good, or that much potential, some heavy hitting promoter would've picked him up. So please...stop your nonsense for once.

exaggerating man... Too Tall was NOT as close to being stopped as any boxer you've ever seen... Did he lurch and wobble around when he got up -- like Larry Homes when Snipes nailed him??? Was he driven around the ring on wobbly legs like Ali was in the 11th round in Frazier 1??? NO!!! ... Too Tall was PHYSICALLY SHOVED TO THE CANVAS and while he was SITTING ON HIS BUTT WITH HIS GLOVES ON THE CANVAS he was hit with a massively loaded left hook... A FOUL BLOW... Most fighters would get DQ'd for that... He came back and won the fight, his pro debut... That's NOT a negative.

WHY did Too Tall Jones fight 2 MORE TIMES IN THE NEXT 3 WEEKS if he was HURT??? .... He WASN'T hurt.

"Heavy hitting" promoters were lined up with Heavyweight Contenders or Larry Holmes... They did everything in their power to STOP Too Tall Jones from getting a significant fight... The last opponent who was thrown at Too Tall was a disgrace to the human race... They wanted to embarrass Too Tall and they did... They wanted him out of Boxing.

Do you match a boxer with an experienced opponent with 31 fights and a winning record in his 3rd fight??? .... And then if he wins by KO in 41 seconds do you keep telling him you can't find an opponent -- and give him an atrocious boxer making his pro debut in his 6th fight??? .... Is THAT the kind of REGRESSION you give a promising Heavyweight????

You're IGNORING my points and questions... Why would Archie Moore tell a National Television audience he wanted to train Too Tall Jones if Jones didn't show any potential??? .... Don't make pejorative statements... Just answer the questions.

Did you actually see his first fight?

No...I disagree with your points. AGAIN...neither of us know why Moore made that statement. Perhaps he saw a quick buck given the curiosity and interest in Jones after he retired and announced his move to boxing. Maybe he was desperate, maybe you made it up...He certainly wasn't worthy of mention on Ring IQ.

[oogiebe]

Interesting perspective.

[oogiebe]

So I disagree and therefore I'm "ridiculous, biased and dismissive." He was as close to being KO'd in his first fight as anyone I've ever seen. If he was that good, or that much potential, some heavy hitting promoter would've picked him up. So please...stop your nonsense for once.

exaggerating man... Too Tall was NOT as close to being stopped as any boxer you've ever seen... Did he lurch and wobble around when he got up -- like Larry Homes when Snipes nailed him??? Was he driven around the ring on wobbly legs like Ali was in the 11th round in Frazier 1??? NO!!! ... Too Tall was PHYSICALLY SHOVED TO THE CANVAS and while he was SITTING ON HIS BUTT WITH HIS GLOVES ON THE CANVAS he was hit with a massively loaded left hook... A FOUL BLOW... Most fighters would get DQ'd for that... He came back and won the fight, his pro debut... That's NOT a negative.

WHY did Too Tall Jones fight 2 MORE TIMES IN THE NEXT 3 WEEKS if he was HURT??? .... He WASN'T hurt.

"Heavy hitting" promoters were lined up with Heavyweight Contenders or Larry Holmes... They did everything in their power to STOP Too Tall Jones from getting a significant fight... The last opponent who was thrown at Too Tall was a disgrace to the human race... They wanted to embarrass Too Tall and they did... They wanted him out of Boxing.

Do you match a boxer with an experienced opponent with 31 fights and a winning record in his 3rd fight??? .... And then if he wins by KO in 41 seconds do you keep telling him you can't find an opponent -- and give him an atrocious boxer making his pro debut in his 6th fight??? .... Is THAT the kind of REGRESSION you give a promising Heavyweight????

You're IGNORING my points and questions... Why would Archie Moore tell a National Television audience he wanted to train Too Tall Jones if Jones didn't show any potential??? .... Don't make pejorative statements... Just answer the questions.

Did you actually see his first fight?

No...I disagree with your points. AGAIN...neither of us know why Moore made that statement. Perhaps he saw a quick buck given the curiosity and interest in Jones after he retired and announced his move to boxing. Maybe he was desperate, maybe you made it up...He certainly wasn't worthy of mention on Ring IQ.

Read this article. I think you'll call it Bull Crap or some other standard reply of yours:

http://www.doghouseboxing.com/Ken/Hissner042210.htm

[oogiebe]

From SI after Jones went back to football:

"For his first pro bout, against one Yaqui Meneses, the television rights were sold to CBS for $27,500. Dave Wolf, Jones' manager, says, "I figured Ed would finish him off so fast that the entire fight would be on the evening news. Instead, it was a fiasco." The bout took place in Las Cruces, N. Mex. The ring ropes were tied with clothesline to keep them from sagging, and Wolf argued that a prefight samurai-sword demonstration, in which the victims had been watermelons, had made the canvas slippery. Jones looked exactly like a man who had never fought before. He won a six-round decision but suffered gross indignity, including being pushed to the canvas by the 6'2", 204-pound Meneses and then being hit while sitting down.

Throughout an unbeaten six-fight career that included five KO's of tomato cans, Wolf says Jones was "embarrassed by his performance but not to the extent that he gave up out of embarrassment. What we were all amazed at was the animosity he seemed to create. Suddenly, he was the villain, as though he had broken a sacred law by giving up football." Jones' trainer, Murphy Griffith, says, "I think the big problem was everyone thought he was too good a football player to be a novice in a foreign activity—and to look like a novice." Although Too Tall refuses to discuss his reasons for returning to football, he has told intimates that his mother hated boxing. When she had a slight heart attack after his third fight, Jones told friends, "I can't torment her like this."

[jas80s]

From SI after Jones went back to football:

"For his first pro bout, against one Yaqui Meneses, the television rights were sold to CBS for $27,500. Dave Wolf, Jones' manager, says, "I figured Ed would finish him off so fast that the entire fight would be on the evening news. Instead, it was a fiasco." The bout took place in Las Cruces, N. Mex. The ring ropes were tied with clothesline to keep them from sagging, and Wolf argued that a prefight samurai-sword demonstration, in which the victims had been watermelons, had made the canvas slippery. Jones looked exactly like a man who had never fought before. He won a six-round decision but suffered gross indignity, including being pushed to the canvas by the 6'2", 204-pound Meneses and then being hit while sitting down.

Throughout an unbeaten six-fight career that included five KO's of tomato cans, Wolf says Jones was "embarrassed by his performance but not to the extent that he gave up out of embarrassment. What we were all amazed at was the animosity he seemed to create. Suddenly, he was the villain, as though he had broken a sacred law by giving up football." Jones' trainer, Murphy Griffith, says, "I think the big problem was everyone thought he was too good a football player to be a novice in a foreign activity—and to look like a novice." Although Too Tall refuses to discuss his reasons for returning to football, he has told intimates that his mother hated boxing. When she had a slight heart attack after his third fight, Jones told friends, "I can't torment her like this."

Interesting, thanks for posting.

Odd that his mom had the episode after his third fight, but he opted to fight three more times. It seems like his reason would be an immediate deal breaker. It makes me wonder if perhaps he had some kind of contract with his "team" that he felt he needed to honor.

[jas80s]

I feel like I should answer the question of the thread rather than only participating in the Too Tall Jones Hijack.

In my lifetime, FMJ has got to be the smartest fighter I have seen. Not simply an ability to adjust, but to do it so quickly, so definitively, and in such varied ways.

I'll give a shout to Juan Manuel Marquez. Always gave me the sense that his wheels were turning in there. Definitely felt like the more punches he saw from you, the more comfortable he got firing back.

[Kalan]

Read this article. I think you'll call it Bull Crap or some other standard reply of yours:
http://www.doghouseboxing.com/Ken/Hissner042210.htm

What do YOU think the article??? .... It's not Bull it's just damned stupid.. The guy who wrote it has the IQ of a carrot.

It's well known (but not by this completely ignorant writer) that most very tall men of 6'10" or more are generally uncoordinated... They're not very athletic... Only 1 of every 73 seven-foot basketball players makes it in the NBA... The super tall men who DO make the NBA are generally just shot blockers, screeners, and guys who score easy baskets when they're directly under the basket.. They're seldom tremendous scorers or all around players like Kareem and Wilt... That's because there're so few good athletes that size... But big guys are damned hard to shoot over if they have any quickness and coordination so big lugs who show any promise are drafted.

The reason most tall Heavyweights win most of their fights (and Most short Heavyweights LOSE most of their fights ) is because being tall with very long arms gives you certain advantages in Boxing... You can hit your opponent from a distance where he can't hit you... But if you can't walk and chew bubblegum at the same time like many super tall guys that advantage is obliterated... Too Tall was a HELL of a lot better athlete than most any man who stand 6'9"... That is why he was a Super Star in Football and went UNDEFEATED in Boxing with almost NO experience.

Your writer hates big men... Many tiny people (he's probably a little prick) hate big men... He researched every very tall boxer over the last 50 years and found out they won the majority of their fights... Tell him to to research every 5'9" or shorter Heavyweight for the last 50 years and he'll find out they lost most of their fights..

He admits Too Tall Jones was PUSHED NOT PUNCHED to the canvas... He admits Too Tall was hit while SITTING on the canvas... (YES I DID watch that fight DID YOU oogie???) ... Does he say anything about the foul blow??? Jones was never knocked down like he suggests.. He was FOULED... His opponent WASN'T DQ'd and should have been... Too Tall won despite that... Does the writer give Too Tall credit for winning despite being egregiously fouled... NO... He's a prick.

And your idea that Moore was out for the quick buck with Too Tall makes no sense at all... He'd been a boxer and trainer for many decades... He's a man who took the long view... Too Tall wasn't a great boxer, but he had tremendous potential to be one because he was one of the better athletes who ever took up the sport... The fact that he was big, tall, and rangy were bonuses... He wasn't a tremendous prospect simply because of his height, weight, and reach.

How great an athlete was Tyson Fury??? Did he lose any fights??? Was he the Lineal Heavyweight Champion??? Fury was a good athlete but not exceptional... fairly smart... He had no unbelievable speed.... no super coordination... no super strength or punching power... not the greatest ambition and dedication... His trainers were fair to good at best.

What do you suppose his main assets were??? .... Hmmmm.... That's a real hard one isn't it?

[Controversial]

Too Tall was obviously not an experienced or skillful boxer yet... NOBODY who's been boxing for a few weeks is going to be skillful

He hadn't been boxing a few weeks, he'd been training a while. Of course anyone participating in any sport will improve with the help of a world class coach, that doesn't mean everyone will became a top pro because of it. As you said before the population has grown and athletes are bigger and stronger, that being the case there should be more examples of guys like Jones transitioning into boxing. Where are they all? Jones and his trainer both said the same thing, he looked good in sparring but he couldn't replicate it in a real fight. Not uncommon and that is a mental failing, his size is irrelevant. If he can't do it against sub-par fighters then he stood no chance.

[Kalan]

He had virtually NO experience.. Was being blackballed and wasn’t getting the fights… You don’t give a guy 3 fights in 3 weeks and then tell him you can’t find opponents and give him total shitt fights if you want him to go anywhere,... But he replicated his training in his fights.. He won them all, 83% by KO... He would have been much better if he got the fights. He only got 2 appropriate fights... His FIRST opponent who fouled him egregiously, but he beat, and his 3rd opponent... a guy with 31 fights, a winning record, and had faced contenders... 41 seconds ice job... The rest of his opponents were worthless.

There are MANY MORE bigger and taller men holding World Heavyweight Titles in the 21st Century than there was in the ENTIRE 20th Century… That’s your response to “Where are all the big Heavyweights?”

[Controversial]

He had virtually NO experience.. Was being blackballed and wasn’t getting the fights… You don’t give a guy 3 fights in 3 weeks and then tell him you can’t find opponents and give him total shitt fights if you want him to go anywhere,...

There are MANY MORE bigger and taller men holding World Heavyweight Titles in the 21st Century than there was in the ENTIRE 20th Century… That’s your response to “Where are all the big Heavyweights?”

Prove how he was being blackballed? I never meant where are the big HWs, I meant where are all the supersized footballer and basketball players. That is your argument after all. Tyson Fury is huge but hardly athletic, so is David Price. If they only need a decent trainer then almost anyone of them would be HW champ, yet it’s never happened.

[Kalan]

Jones got 3 opponents in 3 weeks when they thought they'd get him beaten... Then he got NOBODY as an opponent

Super big guys who are super athletes make super big money in less sleazy sports where fewer criminals exist... They don't have to deal with the underhanded characters, liars, and sleaze balls in Boxing... You see more big guys from the Ukriane and UK than the United States because our athletes have more options.

[BitPlayer]

I feel like I should answer the question of the thread rather than only participating in the Too Tall Jones Hijack.

In my lifetime, FMJ has got to be the smartest fighter I have seen. Not simply an ability to adjust, but to do it so quickly, so definitively, and in such varied ways.

I'll give a shout to Juan Manuel Marquez. Always gave me the sense that his wheels were turning in there. Definitely felt like the more punches he saw from you, the more comfortable he got firing back.

Honestly I made it as a joke at the stuff Kalan says, and he's just filling it with more material.

I wonder how he rates Freddie Flintoff

[Counter-puncher]

Interesting perspective.

ah, excellent, Jones showing his usual perfect boxing form, a great exemplar of a real craftsman at his trade.

[Kalan]

ah, excellent, Jones showing his usual perfect boxing form, a great exemplar of a real craftsman at his trade.

You can take a still-shot of ANY boxer at the precise nanosecond that they'e absorbing a brutal punch.... and you could use that one photo to critique their form... But that wouldn't be fair would it???

How many guys with no amateur career achieve their top form in a couple of months???

[Counter-puncher]

ah, excellent, Jones showing his usual perfect boxing form, a great exemplar of a real craftsman at his trade.

You can take a still-shot of ANY boxer at the precise nanosecond that they'e absorbing a brutal punch....

and that's exactly what isn't going on there, as Jones is not being pictured 'at the precise nanosecond that he is absorbing a brutal punch'

other than that, your usual solid dependable work, bravo.

[TheGman]

Srr imho

[Kalan]

You can take a still-shot of ANY boxer at the precise nanosecond that they'e absorbing a brutal punch....

and that's exactly what isn't going on there, as Jones is not being pictured 'at the precise nanosecond that he is absorbing a brutal punch other than that, your usual solid dependable work, bravo.[/quote]

That's an example moron. The still shot was taken from at a precise moment to make Too Tall look as bad as possible.

A photographer turned in 7 photos of Ali-Chuvalo 1... Six of the photos showed Chuvalo connecting with punches to Ali's head. One photo showed Ali connecting... The newspaper ran all the photos with the headline "WHO'S THE PHOTOGRAPHER? CHUVALO'S UNCLE? .... AHHH... THERE'S THE REAL ALI.

[oogiebe]

You can take a still-shot of ANY boxer at the precise nanosecond that they'e absorbing a brutal punch....

and that's exactly what isn't going on there, as Jones is not being pictured 'at the precise nanosecond that he is absorbing a brutal punch other than that, your usual solid dependable work, bravo.

That's an example moron. The still shot was taken from at a precise moment to make Too Tall look as bad as possible.

A photographer turned in 7 photos of Ali-Chuvalo 1... Six of the photos showed Chuvalo connecting with punches to Ali's head. One photo showed Ali connecting... The newspaper ran all the photos with the headline "WHO'S THE PHOTOGRAPHER? CHUVALO'S UNCLE? .... AHHH... THERE'S THE REAL ALI.
[/quote]

Say all the insults you want, Laughing Boy, but you show nothing in your posts but your hot wind. Your typical insults to anyone that disagrees makes me laugh and wonder who your therapist is.

[Controversial]

Jones got 3 opponents in 3 weeks when they thought they'd get him beaten... Then he got NOBODY as an opponent

Super big guys who are super athletes make super big money in less sleazy sports where fewer criminals exist... They don't have to deal with the underhanded characters, liars, and sleaze balls in Boxing... You see more big guys from the Ukriane and UK than the United States because our athletes have more options.

He got nobody because he was that bad that anyone half decent would've beaten him. He quickly realised boxing wasn't as easy as he thought so he sloped back to football.

The law of averages would prove your theory about big athletes wrong. Most of the top basketball / footballers are millionaires already. They have the money to hire the best trainers, use the best facilities etc... At some point someone would've made a successful leap. others have tried and fallen well short, why is that?

[Flump]

And why would they blackball him? And who was 'they'? Given that he would I imagine have sold tickets being a star already.

People who have interests in Heavyweight Contenders and don't want them embarrassed by an upstart Football player... Larry Holmes said... "If Too Tall Jones becomes really good.. If he really gets down and bones up his skills, he's going to have trouble getting any contenders to fight him... It's too damned tough to fight somebody that big and tall with that kind of speed, range, and power... There're too many other guys you can fight."

When Too Tall Jones announced he was becoming a professional boxer that was one of the reservations about his success that a lot of people had... Boxing is a free lance sport to a very large degree... Unless you're a World Champion you get to pick and choose who you'll fight and who you won't fight.. Some World Champions even seem to have this ability... His list of possible opponents was broad for his 1st fight... After the Montes fight it dried up quickly.

This is fanciful at best isn't it Kalan. You're what the legal profession would describe as an unreliable witness.

Can you provide a source for the Holmes quote? It sounds a little bit like when you invented a quote attributed to Henry Cooper, which was more like an American who'd seen Mary Poppins inventing a quote from a Londoner...

Sorry to be a pest Kalan old boy, could you provide me with the source of this quote from Larry Holmes?

[Kalan]

You can take a still-shot of ANY boxer at the precise nanosecond that they'e absorbing a brutal punch....

and that's exactly what isn't going on there, as Jones is not being pictured 'at the precise nanosecond that he is absorbing a brutal punch other than that, your usual solid dependable work, bravo.

That's an example moron. The still shot was taken from at a precise moment to make Too Tall look as bad as possible.

A photographer turned in 7 photos of Ali-Chuvalo 1... Six of the photos showed Chuvalo connecting with punches to Ali's head. One photo showed Ali connecting... The newspaper ran all the photos with the headline "WHO'S THE PHOTOGRAPHER? CHUVALO'S UNCLE? .... AHHH... THERE'S THE REAL ALI.

Say all the insults you want, Laughing Boy, but you show nothing in your posts but your hot wind. Your typical insults to anyone that disagrees makes me laugh and wonder who your therapist is. [/quote]

Keep beating your brains out Oogie... That's what you're good at... You're a mindless hater and wind blower who's posts show ZERO knowledge and insight...

Being world class at ANY sport demands 2 things.. A good athlete and a great coach... A great coach isn’t somebody who was a half assed competitor, hasn’t mastered the fundamentals himself, and thinks he knows how to coach.

Joe Frazier went to the local Y and their swim coach taught him how to swim. He thought he was ready to compete with other rank amateur swimmers, but his form was so bad that any coach with a brain would have dissuaded him from competing... They showed his performance on the evening news because it was funny. Nobody even cared who the winner was -- because the story was all about how bad Frazier was.

Max Baer had a great chin but the man never learned how to box. He rose to fame on the backs of opponents who couldn’t box any better than he. When Baer faced Joe Louis who had 1 year experience — but a great coach — Baer got hit really hard 15 times a minute and had to quit to preserve his life.

Michael Jordan was a great athlete who couldn’t hit minor league pitching... I guarantee you he didn’t have Ted Williams as his batting coach... Deon Sanders and Bo Jackson played Baseball at a top level because they had better coaching and played the game all their lives. Most guys don’t listen that well to the greatest coaches. They tweak his teachings with their own genius and wonder why they can’t make progress... This is why coaches have to stay with you if you're not getting it and particularly if you have no experience... Baseball didn't want Jordan to succeed at Baseball.

Now even Ted Williams said he wasn’t that great a coach because he lacked the patience to stick with you, correct you a thousand times, and iron out every single flaw in your batting stance and swing. There’s a story about Blackburn trying to correct Louis’s stance in a marathon coaching session that lasted 18 hours. You’re never going to be perfect with any coach but you’ll be 100% better with a great one who demands perfection.

Too Tall Jones had a terrible jab for instance. In the video, Gil Clancy noted he flicked it out there like throwing a Frisbee. He said he needed to throw it straight from the shoulder and step into it to get power, describing a power jab like a young Foreman threw. Jimmy Young lacked power, but he beat Foreman’s power jab with an effortless jab that maximized timing. You can understand the theories, but unless you master the stance and mechanics you’ll never acquire a jab.

That takes a coach - and good coaches were walled off from Jones by his own coaches. To a degree he has to recognize that and get out of that situation, but he didn't have enough to judge that so early in his career. He just knew he wasn't getting fights. He was getting punk opponents pushed at him for his last 2 fights. He couldn't hold them up.

Too Tall's reach was 3" longer than Tyson Fury's and he was twice as strong... Though he had no skills he ended his pro fights quickly because when he landed a solid punch the fight was over... He took a big risk... He made huge money playing Football, but all his life he wanted to be a boxer.. Boxing didn't want a Football player showing them up.