Joe Joyce's career path

[jamesmcdonnell]

Against very low level oppisition. Prior to his last fight he wasnt considered a puncher and hes not demonstrated that he will have the power to trouble higher level operators, especially given how slow he is.

We'll see.

I don't think he should be written off as a weak puncher yet though.

Its possible, but i find it hard to imagine him becoming an exolosive hitter. Hes not very dynamic in his movements.

[Lennox]

The ranking is pretty meaningless, I'd rather go by his record, and what I will say for him is he appears to be much improved. He has won his last five including a first round win over familiar name, Maksim Pedyura. He has won and drawn with Osborne Machimana who might be the worst South African Heavyweight Champion in living memory (mine anyway), but he was South African Champion nevertheless, and very recently.

He also went ten rounds with Joseph Chingangu, a man so good he was immortalized in song by the boy-scout movement ... Chingangu, Chingangu (sorry that was a particularly bad joke, I'm truly penitent, honest )

Seriously, he's by no means awful by African standards (Top 4 or 5 excluded from this description, African standards) but the difference in quality between Knife Didier for example, and Joe Joyce is a vast chasm.

I may have been too dismissive of Moyo and no doubt disrespectful, but there is no getting away from it, this will be an ugly mismatch at best.

Exactly how not to do it. PBO Ranking is more important that what his record looks like. Closer inspection of his record and you will see how he earnt his ranking.

[jamamb]

Can't see joyce going far, he's got great stamina, but his defence is poor, and he isn't very quick either, especially his feet.

He will get a certain distance with workrate, because he has excellent stamina for a big man, but his lack of serious firepower really limits how far he can go.

He seems to hit pretty hard.

Against very low level oppisition. Prior to his last fight he wasnt considered a puncher and hes not demonstrated that he will have the power to trouble higher level operators, especially given how slow he is.

lol and yet dubois beats up on little/chinny weaklings and you say his power is legit and levels above joyces and that hed overwhelm joyce with power and ko him absolutely laughable to dismiss joyces opposition but then act like dubois opponents is good enough to deem him a genuine big puncher

whats with the lack of fire power stuff anyway? hes blown out everyone but lewison and he still stopped him faster in a pro debut then whyte did about 20 fights in

joyce would absolutely blow out guys like dave howe and aj carter too

[jamesmcdonnell]

He seems to hit pretty hard.

Against very low level oppisition. Prior to his last fight he wasnt considered a puncher and hes not demonstrated that he will have the power to trouble higher level operators, especially given how slow he is.

lol and yet dubois beats up on little/chinny weaklings and you say his power is legit and levels above joyces and that hed overwhelm joyce with power and ko him absolutely laughable to dismiss joyces opposition but then act like dubois opponents is good enough to deem him a genuine big puncher

whats with the lack of fire power stuff anyway? hes blown out everyone but lewison and he still stopped him faster in a pro debut then whyte did about 20 fights in

joyce would absolutely blow out guys like dave howe and aj carter too

Dubois is clearly a lot more explosive, however theres no guarantee he will br effective when hes fighting bigger and better men. Its much harder to land the big power shots when you are facing guys who can block or ride shots.

Dubois looks to have mord natural power but hes still unproven.

[jamesmcdonnell]

He seems to hit pretty hard.

Against very low level oppisition. Prior to his last fight he wasnt considered a puncher and hes not demonstrated that he will have the power to trouble higher level operators, especially given how slow he is.

lol and yet dubois beats up on little/chinny weaklings and you say his power is legit and levels above joyces and that hed overwhelm joyce with power and ko him absolutely laughable to dismiss joyces opposition but then act like dubois opponents is good enough to deem him a genuine big puncher

whats with the lack of fire power stuff anyway? hes blown out everyone but lewison and he still stopped him faster in a pro debut then whyte did about 20 fights in

joyce would absolutely blow out guys like dave howe and aj carter too

Where did i say dubois would beat joyce?

[jamamb]

Dubois has power and aggression. I honestly see him walking through Joyce. Neither is anywhere near world class talent.

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=214518

[jamamb]

but of course when joyce fights crap he scores 35 second blast outs too

[Lackeos]

He is pretty good actually currently ranked 109 (PBO)

That's good?

In the scope of his name recognition, it is. If you asked anybody to guess Moyo's ranking in the dark, they'd probably say "Who is that? What weight division? I dunno, f*ck it, #800?"

I think Moyo is just about treading water for Joyce, when you compare him to Lewison and Thomas. Not crap, not good.

[candyslim]

The ranking is pretty meaningless, I'd rather go by his record, and what I will say for him is he appears to be much improved. He has won his last five including a first round win over familiar name, Maksim Pedyura. He has won and drawn with Osborne Machimana who might be the worst South African Heavyweight Champion in living memory (mine anyway), but he was South African Champion nevertheless, and very recently.

He also went ten rounds with Joseph Chingangu, a man so good he was immortalized in song by the boy-scout movement ... Chingangu, Chingangu (sorry that was a particularly bad joke, I'm truly penitent, honest )

Seriously, he's by no means awful by African standards (Top 4 or 5 excluded from this description, African standards) but the difference in quality between Knife Didier for example, and Joe Joyce is a vast chasm.

I may have been too dismissive of Moyo and no doubt disrespectful, but there is no getting away from it, this will be an ugly mismatch at best.

Exactly how not to do it. PBO Ranking is more important that what his record looks like. Closer inspection of his record and you will see how he earnt his ranking.

I thought I had closely inspected his record Lennox, that's what my comments were about.

Any ranking worth a damn is based on boxers' records, which is why I trust the record over the ranking every time. It cuts out the human subjectivity (except for mine but that comes later) or the seemingly inescapable anomalies inherent in any computer formula.

Still, I don't profess to know everything and I'm always keen to learn ... so what did I miss?

[Lennox]

The ranking is pretty meaningless, I'd rather go by his record, and what I will say for him is he appears to be much improved. He has won his last five including a first round win over familiar name, Maksim Pedyura. He has won and drawn with Osborne Machimana who might be the worst South African Heavyweight Champion in living memory (mine anyway), but he was South African Champion nevertheless, and very recently.

He also went ten rounds with Joseph Chingangu, a man so good he was immortalized in song by the boy-scout movement ... Chingangu, Chingangu (sorry that was a particularly bad joke, I'm truly penitent, honest )

Seriously, he's by no means awful by African standards (Top 4 or 5 excluded from this description, African standards) but the difference in quality between Knife Didier for example, and Joe Joyce is a vast chasm.

I may have been too dismissive of Moyo and no doubt disrespectful, but there is no getting away from it, this will be an ugly mismatch at best.

Exactly how not to do it. PBO Ranking is more important that what his record looks like. Closer inspection of his record and you will see how he earnt his ranking.

I thought I had closely inspected his record Lennox, that's what my comments were about.

Any ranking worth a damn is based on boxers' records, which is why I trust the record over the ranking every time. It cuts out the human subjectivity (except for mine but that comes later) or the seemingly inescapable anomalies inherent in any computer formula.

Still, I don't profess to know everything and I'm always keen to learn ... so what did I miss?

The PBO ranking is independent and is calculated exactly on the quality of opponents you beat, (and very similar to your own way of evaluation by the sound of it) so the higher ranked you are means you have higher quality wins...41-0 fighters can be ranked below a 12-6-2 fighter, some fighters with 30+ wins have never even faced/beaten top 100 opposition.. Each fighter in the top 100 has the opponent quality of his last 20 fights shown and the activity columns show his best win in the last 12 months, 18 months, 24 months, 36 months and all time, so the evidence is right in there to see. Moyo (#109) is not shown as he is below that level of course.
www.premierboxingorganisation.com/heavyweight-200 (monthly ratings so, will get updated later for June)

[candyslim]

I entirely get that Lennox. Arnold Gjergjaj was something like 29 and 0 before Haye destroyed him. Kamil Sokolowski has a losing record but is a better fighter (Their respective performances against Turner is not proof, but it does support this conclusion). I try to factor such considerations into my own evaluations, but like any human, my conclusions are subjective and unintentionally biased for a whole host of reasons, most of which I'm probably not even aware of.

So you eliminate the human angle (other than that intrinsic to the formula) and you get a computer to calculate the rankings. Look at BoxRec. Could there be a more comprehensive system, no doubt designed with great skill, and with the best of intentions, and refined and improved over time with the benefit of knowledge gained. Having said that you don't need me to tell you it occasionally throws up some very odd results. Look at Tony Bellew, what is he, BoxRec number 4 or something? Clearly the programme credits him with two wins over a two-weight champion of the world, it has no way of knowing that Haye was totally fukced.

My point is ratings are flawed whether compiled by human or computer, and although I cannot claim familiarity, I've no doubt your PBO rankings are no exception .

[Lennox]

To be honest, only a clown could look at Boxrec ratings and think they are better than PBO. Tony Bellew is the perfect example. Bellew beat Haye who was a top 20 boxer the win should not escalate him to 4. The rules and method is massively flawed. I think he is 10 in the new PBO for June and at 10 subjectively that is a bit too high. There would be many heavyweights 11-30 that would beat Bellew but factually Bellew twice beat a top 20 heavyweight and the rating system did not recognise just how much David Haye had gone into decline.

Of course there will be flaws in any rating if you take them literally.....always fighters are getting better or in decline, the rating is just a measure at that point.

[candyslim]

Well I make no comparison because I know nothing about PBO rankings but I remain intrigued as to what I missed in Moyo's record that closer inspection of will reveal how he earned his ranking.

I accept that he is better than indicated by my initial reaction based on the very little knowledge of him that I carry in my head (almost non existent in his case before today) but even allowing for the fact that he seems to be getting better, i would be very surprised if he were capable of defeating Lenroy Thomas for example.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Dubois has power and aggression. I honestly see him walking through Joyce. Neither is anywhere near world class talent.

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=214518

How dare you use my own words against me, you nazi shit.

[candyslim]

Exactly how not to do it. PBO Ranking is more important that what his record looks like. Closer inspection of his record and you will see how he earnt his ranking.

I'm still waiting Lennox, for you to enlighten me as to what I missed in my scrutiny of Moyo's record, that closer study of would have enabled me to see how he earned his ranking?

[African Monkey]

So is this Moyo fella confirmed as Joyce's next opponent?

[joshj909]

So is this Moyo fella confirmed as Joyce's next opponent?

Only in Zimbabwean newspapers by the looks of things. Considering it's next weekend i'd think it's either him or somebody worse...

[joshj909]

Duno if the guy speculated is correct but if his manager said that then who does it leave?

If it is him, very poor matchmaking

[African Monkey]

To be fair, Joyce only fought about 6 weeks ago so it's nothing more than a stay busy fight and he doesn't really have time to sit around taking months off at a time. If no-onehigh up in the rankings is willing to fight him then keeping him busy is the way to go.

[joshj909]

To be fair, Joyce only fought about 6 weeks ago so it's nothing more than a stay busy fight and he doesn't really have time to sit around taking months off at a time. If no-onehigh up in the rankings is willing to fight him then keeping him busy is the way to go.

If the commonwealth don't offer decent competition for the next fight he should try go after the European belt instead. I think the only way he's going to get improved competition is if they're mandated to fight him because he doesn't have the financial backing that alot of other high tier heavyweights have.

[Lackeos]

"Oh yeah, Joe Joyce is so ambitious. He's trying to fight Jarrell Miller or Dereck Chisora as his fifth opponent."
*fights Richard Lartey*

Doesn't it occur to anyone that if Joyce really wanted to fight the #6 heavyweight as his next opponent, and he couldn't get him, that he'd at least fight the #7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, ... 100 heavyweight? If Miller was his first choice, wouldn't he have found SOMEONE better than Richard Lartey? Doesn't it occur to anyone that maybe it was a bluff to make Joyce seem like he's on a more meteoric rise than he really is and falsely seem like he's stalking top 10 prey. He's like a little cat going "oh yeah, I'm a tiger. If there were any antelopes around, then I'd kill those antelopes, because I'm a tiger. But I don't see any antelopes around, so I'll just kill this mouse. But believe me, if there were any antelopes around, I'd be the first one to pounce. Because I'm a tiger, not a cat."

[jamamb]

the way it worked so far is that they planned some fights in real quick succession to lead up to a better opponent (thomas). id expect that will be the case again. 6 weeks after the last fight is like nothing. even fast tracked prospects often dont even fight that soon after, and no one isnt really superior to lartey. lets see what he does in the next 3 months or so after that

[joshj909]

Looks like Joyce is now targeting Jennings after this commonwealth defence. He called him out on twitter, now this:

http://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=21-40021919-4

Joyce promoter Richard Schaefer of Ringstar Sports told ESPN. “I had (Ringstar Sports matchmaker) John Beninati reach out to (Top Rank vice president) Carl (Moretti). We are serious and would do the fight.”

Would be very interesting but i'm not too confident it will happen.

[joshj909]

Might be clutching at straws here but:

Describes Joyce, right? especially after Joyce's tweets saying he would take the fight...

[Enlightened-One]

Joe Joyce looked slow awkward and clumsy in his last two outings against the small cruiserweight Ivica Bacurin and a journeyman like Lenroy Thomas.

I don’t envisage the Brit accomplishing very much in the sport. I think he’s the second coming of Michael Grant, but less talented and mobile than the previously hyped-up American.