Remember....Usyk will defeat Joshua.............

[candyslim]

Deontay Wilder's power might suggest the optimum weight for a power puncher in boxing is about 220.

There again watching Tyrone Bogues might have suggested the optimum height for a Basketball pro is about 5' zero. Stand-out individual performers can give you a false impression.

[ValMar]

Deontay Wilder's power might suggest the optimum weight for a power puncher in boxing is about 220.

There again watching Tyrone Bogues might have suggested the optimum height for a Basketball pro is about 5' zero. Stand-out individual performers can give you a false impression.

Of course, everything is individual, but.....I think that young Lewis/Foreman (215-220) had the equal power comparing with their respective older/heavier (240-260) versions. Should I mention Tyson and Holyfield, even Wlad and Vitaly ?

[Ilya Muromets]

Deontay Wilder's power might suggest the optimum weight for a power puncher in boxing is about 220.
...

The most devestating puncher I ever saw was Gerry Cooney. When he fought Ken Norton - who had in reality, that is notwithstanding the usual fraudulent judge decisions in favor of Ali, beaten Ali three times - and KO'd him in less than a minute. He weighed 225. So you may have a valid point. That fight is on YouTube.

[candyslim]

By quoting half my post you have turned my point on it's head. Basically the bigger you are, the harder you hit. There are loads of exceptions but that is the trend. We all know women who are taller than a lot of men we know, but this doesn't mean that it's wrong to say that men tend to be taller than women.

Yes Gerry Cooney was a hell of a puncher. Back in the day I wondered if anyone would be able to stop him. In boxing you never know what's waiting around the corner.

Good point Valmar but there's no fundamental difference in size between the younger and older version of the same fighter, it's just added padding. I'm probably 25% heavier than I was at my peak and trust me I don't do anything better than I did then ... except maybe use a computer.

"25% Slim? ... yeah, and the rest" ... "STF up!"

[Ilya Muromets]

By quoting half my post you have turned my point on it's head. Basically the bigger you are, the harder you hit. There are loads of exceptions but that is the trend. We all know women who are taller than a lot of men we know, but this doesn't mean that it's wrong to say that men tend to be taller than women.

Yes Gerry Cooney was a hell of a puncher. Back in the day I wondered if anyone would be able to stop him. In boxing you never know what's waiting around the corner.

Good point Valmar but there's no fundamental difference in size between the younger and older version of the same fighter, it's just added padding. I'm probably 25% heavier than I was at my peak and trust me I don't do anything better than I did then ... except maybe use a computer.

"25% Slim? ... yeah, and the rest" ... "STF up!"

Sorry about that. I ignored the 2nd part if your post because I know nothing about basketball or that name you mentioned. It went right over my head. Yes, the bigger they are the harder they hit is s pretty good rule of thumb. Watch Wladimir's early fights. Wow! Cooney should have been champ and could have been and should of been. Terribly mismanged, including by his own self. Now I forgot what I'm supposed to be talking about...oh yes, big guys hit hard, but of lot of 220 poundish fellers hit hard, something like that. Duh.

[digzee]

Usyk is an incredible fighter but he's not invincible, Gassiev rocked him so much his leg buckled and had to hold on until the bell. He isn't standing up to AJ's shots...

[danconnollyeire]

Ok using this stupid logic, AJ weighs 250ish. So if any 190 fighter can punch as hard as a 250er, then that means any Welter can punch as hard as a cruiser and any minimumweight fighter can punch as hard as any welter fighter who can punch as hard as any cruiser who can punch as hard as any Heavyweight. You're logic is literally the dumbest I've heard of any boxing discussion ever

Fvck me this thread is shot of intelligence

Force=mass*acceleration

Theres one point when the added weight doesnt make you more powerful, and it can be even detrimental in boxing mechanics and speed.
200 lbs is maybe the optimum point for both for most boxers.


So, by your logic, the more weight, the more punching power, right? ooook.

So Tyson fury and fat boxers should be knocking out guys with one single shot.

I agree,but partly. For me, the optimum point is 210-215 lbs.

Da fuk do you mean for you? For you isn't facts ffs. I swear you've created several account so you can agree with yourself, the language is the same, I bet the IP's are. Sad

[candyslim]

By quoting half my post you have turned my point on it's head. Basically the bigger you are, the harder you hit. There are loads of exceptions but that is the trend. We all know women who are taller than a lot of men we know, but this doesn't mean that it's wrong to say that men tend to be taller than women.

Yes Gerry Cooney was a hell of a puncher. Back in the day I wondered if anyone would be able to stop him. In boxing you never know what's waiting around the corner.

Good point Valmar but there's no fundamental difference in size between the younger and older version of the same fighter, it's just added padding. I'm probably 25% heavier than I was at my peak and trust me I don't do anything better than I did then ... except maybe use a computer.

"25% Slim? ... yeah, and the rest" ... "STF up!"

Sorry about that. I ignored the 2nd part if your post because I know nothing about basketball or that name you mentioned. It went right over my head. Yes, the bigger they are the harder they hit is s pretty good rule of thumb. Watch Wladimir's early fights. Wow! Cooney should have been champ and could have been and should of been. Terribly mismanged, including by his own self. Now I forgot what I'm supposed to be talking about...oh yes, big guys hit hard, but of lot of 220 poundish fellers hit hard, something like that. Duh.

I'm not a fan of Basketball (wrong nationality, wrong colour) but it's a fine sport. Look up Tyrone "Mugsy" Bogues. Tiny little guy and as such, stuck out like a Bishop at a Hell's Angels convention, but he sure could turn those big guys in knots.

Maybe a lesson there fore Luis F ... or there again maybe not.

[candyslim]

Usyk is an incredible fighter but he's not invincible, Gassiev rocked him so much his leg buckled and had to hold on until the bell. He isn't standing up to AJ's shots...

Exactly. Josh hits even harder. Is a better boxer (than Gassiev not Usyk) is taller, stronger, harder to reach. Sasha won't be able to glue his right glove to Joshua's nose like he did Murat's. He will have to reach to hit AJ and this will make him vulnerable to painful counters that threaten to separate Usyk from his senses.

One of the things that makes Sasha so difficult to find, is that his right glove is permanently in your face. I venture to suggest Joshua's height, reach, and bulk means that is not a problem for him.

[ValMar]

By quoting half my post you have turned my point on it's head. Basically the bigger you are, the harder you hit. There are loads of exceptions but that is the trend. We all know women who are taller than a lot of men we know, but this doesn't mean that it's wrong to say that men tend to be taller than women.

Yes Gerry Cooney was a hell of a puncher. Back in the day I wondered if anyone would be able to stop him. In boxing you never know what's waiting around the corner.

Good point Valmar but there's no fundamental difference in size between the younger and older version of the same fighter, it's just added padding. I'm probably 25% heavier than I was at my peak and trust me I don't do anything better than I did then ... except maybe use a computer.

"25% Slim? ... yeah, and the rest" ... "STF up!"

Sorry about that. I ignored the 2nd part if your post because I know nothing about basketball or that name you mentioned. It went right over my head. Yes, the bigger they are the harder they hit is s pretty good rule of thumb. Watch Wladimir's early fights. Wow! Cooney should have been champ and could have been and should of been. Terribly mismanged, including by his own self. Now I forgot what I'm supposed to be talking about...oh yes, big guys hit hard, but of lot of 220 poundish fellers hit hard, something like that. Duh.

I'm not a fan of Basketball (wrong nationality, wrong colour) but it's a fine sport. Look up Tyrone "Mugsy" Bogues. Tiny little guy and as such, stuck out like a Bishop at a Hell's Angels convention, but he sure could turn those big guys in knots.

Maybe a lesson there fore Luis F ... or there again maybe not.

Wrong nationality/colour for any sport ? Never !

[candyslim]

That was a bit tongue-in-cheek Valmar, but there is some truth there. Basketball is an American sport and there's no denying black guys tend to follow it more than white guys. Ice Hockey is the other way round. That's not meant in a disparaging way it's just how it is.

I'm not a massive fan mainly because it doesn't get a lot of coverage over here, and when it comes to sport which requires you to use your skills to put a ball in your opponent's net, I generally don't feel the need to look any further than football. Come on yoooouuuu Iiiiiiirrrrooonnnssss!!!

[ValMar]

That was a bit tongue-in-cheek Valmar, but there is some truth there. Basketball is an American sport and there's no denying black guys tend to follow it more than white guys. Ice Hockey is the other way round. That's not meant in a disparaging way it's just how it is.

I'm not a massive fan mainly because it doesn't get a lot of coverage over here, and when it comes to sport which requires you to use your skills to put a ball in your opponent's net, I generally don't feel the need to look any further than football. Come on yoooouuuu Iiiiiiirrrrooonnnssss!!!

I don't like basketball, I don't like hockey....The greatest majority of my (white) friends, cousins and neighbours are very fond of basketball, and the ice hockey is almost unknown.....OK, this is off topic........
Off topic, too, but I have to say that I am a little bit disappointed with your football team (lucky to be the fourth), really I expected more.................
Let us discuss about Usyk and Joshua............

[candyslim]

You're disappointed !! ?

Valmar I've had a whole lifetime of disappointment but at this moment I am filled with euphoria, hope and expectation for the new season. That is not unusual for me at this time of year to be fair, the difference is this year those feelings of optimism have a decent chance of surviving until the end of August or dare I say it, even beyond.

[Ilya Muromets]

[candyslim]
By quoting half my post you have turned my point on it's head. Basically the bigger you are, the harder you hit. There are loads of exceptions but that is the trend. We all know women who are taller than a lot of men we know, but this doesn't mean that it's wrong to say that men tend to be taller than women.yes gerry cooney was a hell of a puncher. back in the day i wondered if anyone would be able to stop him. in boxing you never know what's waiting around the corner.

good point valmar but there's no fundamental difference in size between the younger and older version of the same fighter, it's just added padding. i'm probably

Ys Gerry Cooney was a hell of a puncher. Back in the day I wondered if anyone would be able to stop him. In boxing you never know what's waiting around the corner.

Sorry about that. I ignored the 2nd part if your post because I know nothing about basketball or that name you mentioned. It went right over my head. Yes, the bigger they are the harder they hit is s pretty good rule of thumb. Watch Wladimir's early fights. Wow! Cooney should have been champ and could have been and should of been. Terribly mismanged, including by his own self. Now I forgot what I'm supposed to be talking about...oh yes, big guys hit hard, but of lot of 220 poundish fellers hit hard, something like that. Duh.

I'm not a fan of Basketball (wrong nationality, wrong colour) but it's a fine sport. Look up Tyrone "Mugsy" Bogues. Tiny little guy and as such, stuck out like a Bishop at a Hell's Angels convention, but he sure could turn those big guys in knots.


[/quote]


I looked Bogues up. Interesting. Basketball was invented at the end of the 19th century by a Canadian-American man. He wanted to invent a new sport that would allow ordinary people at the New England YMCA where he was sport instructor to stay in shape and safely play indoors during the harsh New England winter. But now, at least in the professionals, it is a sport dominated by extremely tall people.

Major League baseball had a 3'7" man once. He made one plate appearance and was walked, so he retired with a perfect 100% record of getting on base. Eddie Gaedel.

[BigBenHo]

Usyk needs to step up to HW as soon as possible and get himself in with the highest ranked opponent possible.

Wilder and AJ are not going to want to face him because of his superb technique, so he needs to force the mandatory

[ValMar]

Usyk needs to step up to HW as soon as possible and get himself in with the highest ranked opponent possible.

Wilder and AJ are not going to want to face him because of his superb technique, so he needs to force the mandatory

If Usyk moves up at HW (he will, 99%) Joshua and/or Wilder will have to face him, sooner or later.

[Luis Fernando12]

The degree of delusion on this board at times is bemusing.

1) Since when is the number of people knocked unconscious the independent factor in defining power? Not to say the actual landing of concussive punches, which actually results in a stoppage.

2) I'm of the belief that if Joshua was fighting CWs, there would be a higher degree of 'unconscious' fighters. Unless of course the smaller the fighter gets, the more punch resistance they gain...

Concussive knockout = most damage inflicted upon opponent. Most damage inflicted upon opponent = evidence of greatest amount of power.

Fat, chubby, pudgy and blown up light heavyweight Alexander Povetkin put Carlos Takam to sleep and knocked him out unconscious whilst Takam was still in his prime. Whilst Joshua couldn't KO Takam unconscious, even a few years after Takam was already knocked out unconscious and even more faded / past his best than when he faced Povetkin. So spare me the idea that Joshua will KO more opponents unconscious if he was fighting cruiser weights.

Joshua has already faced cruiser weight sized heavyweights / small heavyweights. And even bums, some who are as big as your average cruiser weight and / or on the same level in terms of quality or at times, even worse. But Joshua to this day, has never KO'ed a single opponent totally unconscious. So what's the excuse here?

Joshua fought Denis Bakhtov. A fat, 5'11, blown up cruiser weight / light heavyweight. Couldn't even drop him in 2 rounds once, despite landing powerful punches. Needed a standing, premature TKO stoppage.

On the other hand, a 6 foot 0, cruiser weight sized / small heavyweight in Evgeny Romanov literally dropped the same Denis Bakhtov thrice in just the first round alone with seemingly arm punches. So if Joshua supposedly hits as hard as you claim or somehow hits significantly harder than cruiser weight power punchers like Gassiev or Breidis, then why couldn't he even KO those guys unconscious or at least, more brutally than those two small heavyweights / cruiser weight sized heavyweights did?

Answer: Joshua's power is overrated and he really doesn't hit that hard

If Joshua hit as hard as you claim, he wouldn't have failed to KO Takam unconscious when blown up light heavyweight Povetkin put a better version of Takam to sleep alreayd.

If Joshua hit as hard as you claim, he wouldn't have failed to drop Denis Bakhtov even once in 2 rounds, when small, 6 foot 0 light heavyweight / cruiser weight dropped the same Bakhtov thrice in just the first round.

If Joshua hit as hard as you claim, he wouldn't have failed to KO a single opponent unconscious (including bums and journeymen) once out of 21 fights.

There's a few things you fail to address here, and they're quite significant factors, in particularly to the case surrounding the Joshua v Takam fight. Joshua took that fight at a week's notice.

Secondly, Povetkin did not knock Takam unconscious. He knocked him flat out, but he was conscious.

If Breidis is such a devastating puncher, why does he only have a 75% KO ratio? And Gassiev only 73%? Why are these guys taken the distance against absolute Joe Nobody's?

Right! But Povetkin still did KO a prime, previously UN-KO'ed version of Takam more BRUTALLY than Joshua did. Since dropping an opponent to the canvas for over a minute is far more brutal than managing to only drop an opponent to the canvas for a 2 count and then needing a standing referee stoppage to win.

Takam also took the fight against Joshua at short notice too. Plus, he was 37 years old and past his best. Plus, he was faded from already being brutally KO'ed before. So there's no excuses for Joshua, since any excuses for Joshua can also be made for Takam too.

Why do Breidis and Gassiev have lower KO percentage than Joshua? Because referees don't gift them with as many standing TKO stoppages as they do for Joshua. This is a fact! Remove all the nonsensical, premature and gift stoppages from Joshua's stoppage record, and you'll find he at MOST, has the same legitimate KO percentage as Gassiev and Breidis or most likely even less.

KO percentage doesn't impress me. I need to actually see the knockouts to see the legitimacy of them. Joshua supposedly knocked out Denis Bakhtov, according to his KO record. However, in reality, he didn't KO Bakhtov because Bakhtov was still standing and the referee just came in and prematurely stopped the fight.

Maybe Breidis and Gassiev aren't 'devastating' punchers. But I see absolutely no evidence to suggest that their power isn't at least on the level of Joshua, if not more.

[ValMar]

Concussive knockout = most damage inflicted upon opponent. Most damage inflicted upon opponent = evidence of greatest amount of power.

Fat, chubby, pudgy and blown up light heavyweight Alexander Povetkin put Carlos Takam to sleep and knocked him out unconscious whilst Takam was still in his prime. Whilst Joshua couldn't KO Takam unconscious, even a few years after Takam was already knocked out unconscious and even more faded / past his best than when he faced Povetkin. So spare me the idea that Joshua will KO more opponents unconscious if he was fighting cruiser weights.

Joshua has already faced cruiser weight sized heavyweights / small heavyweights. And even bums, some who are as big as your average cruiser weight and / or on the same level in terms of quality or at times, even worse. But Joshua to this day, has never KO'ed a single opponent totally unconscious. So what's the excuse here?

Joshua fought Denis Bakhtov. A fat, 5'11, blown up cruiser weight / light heavyweight. Couldn't even drop him in 2 rounds once, despite landing powerful punches. Needed a standing, premature TKO stoppage.

On the other hand, a 6 foot 0, cruiser weight sized / small heavyweight in Evgeny Romanov literally dropped the same Denis Bakhtov thrice in just the first round alone with seemingly arm punches. So if Joshua supposedly hits as hard as you claim or somehow hits significantly harder than cruiser weight power punchers like Gassiev or Breidis, then why couldn't he even KO those guys unconscious or at least, more brutally than those two small heavyweights / cruiser weight sized heavyweights did?

Answer: Joshua's power is overrated and he really doesn't hit that hard

If Joshua hit as hard as you claim, he wouldn't have failed to KO Takam unconscious when blown up light heavyweight Povetkin put a better version of Takam to sleep alreayd.

If Joshua hit as hard as you claim, he wouldn't have failed to drop Denis Bakhtov even once in 2 rounds, when small, 6 foot 0 light heavyweight / cruiser weight dropped the same Bakhtov thrice in just the first round.

If Joshua hit as hard as you claim, he wouldn't have failed to KO a single opponent unconscious (including bums and journeymen) once out of 21 fights.

There's a few things you fail to address here, and they're quite significant factors, in particularly to the case surrounding the Joshua v Takam fight. Joshua took that fight at a week's notice.

Secondly, Povetkin did not knock Takam unconscious. He knocked him flat out, but he was conscious.

If Breidis is such a devastating puncher, why does he only have a 75% KO ratio? And Gassiev only 73%? Why are these guys taken the distance against absolute Joe Nobody's?

Right! But Povetkin still did KO a prime, previously UN-KO'ed version of Takam more BRUTALLY than Joshua did. Since dropping an opponent to the canvas for over a minute is far more brutal than managing to only drop an opponent to the canvas for a 2 count and then needing a standing referee stoppage to win.

Takam also took the fight against Joshua at short notice too. Plus, he was 37 years old and past his best. Plus, he was faded from already being brutally KO'ed before. So there's no excuses for Joshua, since any excuses for Joshua can also be made for Takam too.

Why do Breidis and Gassiev have lower KO percentage than Joshua? Because referees don't gift them with as many standing TKO stoppages as they do for Joshua. This is a fact! Remove all the nonsensical, premature and gift stoppages from Joshua's stoppage record, and you'll find he at MOST, has the same legitimate KO percentage as Gassiev and Breidis or most likely even less.

KO percentage doesn't impress me. I need to actually see the knockouts to see the legitimacy of them. Joshua supposedly knocked out Denis Bakhtov, according to his KO record. However, in reality, he didn't KO Bakhtov because Bakhtov was still standing and the referee just came in and prematurely stopped the fight.

Maybe Breidis and Gassiev aren't 'devastating' punchers. But I see absolutely no evidence to suggest that their power isn't at least on the level of Joshua, if not more.

Again and again - considering punching power, Joshua is among the top 3 in the world; this is a fukcing fakt.
Gassiev (and Briedis) are among the top 10, I believe. Skillset, chin, stamina, heart are quite different stories.

[candyslim]

I admire your stamina Valmar.

[ValMar]

I admire your stamina Valmar.

Because of Joshua, or Gassiev (Briedis) ?
Please, convince me that I was wrong .
I would like to see your top 10 list (punching power).

[candyslim]

I mean your continuing willingness to argue common-sense with those that will not see or listen. I just get bored eventually and walk away. Gassiev and Briedis are ferocious punchers for men of 200 lbs. Joshua is 250 lbs and while he isn't a one shot knock-out specialist like Wilder, he still hits very hard indeed ... and in bunches.

He also has the height, reach, bulk and boxing skills to place his heavy artillery on the target with regularity. It's not just power - you have to have an effective delivery system.

[ValMar]

I mean your continuing willingness to argue common-sense with those that will not see or listen. I just get bored eventually and walk away. Gassiev and Briedis are ferocious punchers for men of 200 lbs. Joshua is 250 lbs and while he isn't a one shot knock-out specialist like Wilder, he still hits very hard indeed ... and in bunches.

He also has the height, reach, bulk and boxing skills to place his heavy artillery on the target with regularity. It's not just power - you have to have an effective delivery system.

Before going to my bed, I wil try to make a list - the top 10 (punching power) for 31. 07.2018.....Let us go !
1. - 3. : Joshua, Wilder, Price
4. - 10. : Ortiz, Whyte, Povetkin, Gassiev, Briedis, Breazeale

[Mexi-Box]

Joshua hits no harder than Gassiev. Stop talking shiat. Gassiev is merely a CW that can make HW. Guy is one of the biggest punchers in a division that includes Briedis and Kudryashov.

Usyk has an iron chin. Gassiev not KO'ing him or knocking him down shows he can handle anything thrown at HW.

What makes everyone think Joshua hits all that hard? He couldn't put a dent in Takam who Povetkin put to sleep.

[candyslim]

The fact that he stopped every opponent but one and that most likely because he was trying to make a point about his ability to do the distance.

I'm not going to influence your thinking and that's fair enough. We all believe what we believe, but I've had enough of the "Oh yes he does" ... "Oh no he doesn't" tedium, so I'm leaving this discussion there.

[FruitStealer]

Usyk has enough chin and great skills to outbox Joshua, who is smart and strong, decent skilled, but not a very fluid boxer.

But I dont think he has the power to make real damage to AJ.