Is ....... the most avoided boxer in the world today ?

[Evander]

Get off the fence and make a call of the top of your head.

On top of my head Andy Ruiz Jr

I've not seen the Kevin Johnson fight yet.
What's Andy Ruiz Jr weight been like over the last 4 years ?

[Ossyrules]

Billy Joe Saunders and Guillermo Rigondeaux are two fighters that have been avoided quite a lot over the years, mainly because their fighting styles are an acquired taste, where the TV networks showed little interest in covering their bouts, resulting in their big name rivals being able to face easier opposition for better paydays.

I believe that any fighter that guarantees big paydays for their opponents will be called out by their rivals.

However, any boxer that is risky, but brings very little money to the negotiating table, will inevitably be avoided like the plague, because pugilists are known as "PRIZE" fighters not "PRIDE" fighters.

That being said, I'm not sure who the most avoided fighter is today.

Unusual answer to say Saunders, who openly admitted to not wanting to face golovkin earlier in his title reign as he wasn’t ready to beat him.

Clear evidence that he in fact avoided his fellow title holder at 160

[DrDuke]

Oquendo

[candyslim]

It's definitely Wilder. I heard it from his own lips.

[Oiky]

Nobody wants to work with tete or spence

[Ossyrules]

I’d agree that nobody seems huge on stepping in with Spence

I know Spence is good, physical boxer, but it’s not exactly intimidation like going in with mike Tyson in his prime.

Does a fight with Spence not generate the money worth the risk?

[JoshuaEden]

I truly believe Dillian Whyte is the most avoided boxer right now. There are only two men that have expressed interest in fighting him which are AJ and Chisora. Countless times top 10 world level boxers have been offered the Whyte fight with everything in their favour, examples that come to mind are Ortiz and Wilder, yet neither would take a fight with Whyte although claiming that the fight would be easy and that they would be making easy money.

Personally i dont get it.

[Enlightened-One]

Billy Joe Saunders and Guillermo Rigondeaux are two fighters that have been avoided quite a lot over the years, mainly because their fighting styles are an acquired taste, where the TV networks showed little interest in covering their bouts, resulting in their big name rivals being able to face easier opposition for better paydays.

I believe that any fighter that guarantees big paydays for their opponents will be called out by their rivals.

However, any boxer that is risky, but brings very little money to the negotiating table, will inevitably be avoided like the plague, because pugilists are known as "PRIZE" fighters not "PRIDE" fighters.

That being said, I'm not sure who the most avoided fighter is today.

Unusual answer to say Saunders, who openly admitted to not wanting to face golovkin earlier in his title reign as he wasn’t ready to beat him.

Clear evidence that he in fact avoided his fellow title holder at 160

Almost four years has passed since Billy Joe Saunders originally claimed that he wasn’t ready to face Golovkin. However, since then, the Brit agreed to face GGG on two separate occasions, signing at least one contract, but it was the Kazakh that refused those opportunities to fight for the WBO strap.

For the record, at some point or other, Canelo, Golovkin, Lemieux and Eubank Jr. have all previously declined guaranteed opportunities to face Saunders, with the Brit having already accepted the terms proposed to him, whilst others, such as Avtandil Khurtsidze, actually preferred to take step-aside money rather than face him.

And at the start of this year, even Demetrius Andrade admitted to not being ready to face Billy Joe Saunders yet. I posted a video of him stating this.

I can look through some of my old posts and backup these claims and cite videos and interview transcripts, should you need to see proof.

[Ossyrules]

Billy Joe Saunders and Guillermo Rigondeaux are two fighters that have been avoided quite a lot over the years, mainly because their fighting styles are an acquired taste, where the TV networks showed little interest in covering their bouts, resulting in their big name rivals being able to face easier opposition for better paydays.

I believe that any fighter that guarantees big paydays for their opponents will be called out by their rivals.

However, any boxer that is risky, but brings very little money to the negotiating table, will inevitably be avoided like the plague, because pugilists are known as "PRIZE" fighters not "PRIDE" fighters.

That being said, I'm not sure who the most avoided fighter is today.

Unusual answer to say Saunders, who openly admitted to not wanting to face golovkin earlier in his title reign as he wasn’t ready to beat him.

Clear evidence that he in fact avoided his fellow title holder at 160

Almost four years has passed since Billy Joe Saunders originally claimed that he wasn’t ready to face Golovkin. However, since then, the Brit agreed to face GGG on two separate occasions, signing at least one contract, but it was the Kazakh that refused those opportunities to fight for the WBO strap.

For the record, at some point or other, Canelo, Golovkin, Lemieux and Eubank Jr. have all previously declined guaranteed opportunities to face Saunders, with the Brit having already accepted the terms proposed to him, whilst others, such as Avtandil Khurtsidze, actually preferred to take step-aside money rather than face him.

And at the start of this year, even Demetrius Andrade admitted to not being ready to face Billy Joe Saunders yet. I posted a video of him stating this.

I can look through some of my old posts and backup these claims and cite videos and interview transcripts, should you need to see proof.

So he wanted ggg while he was tied up with Jacobs and Canelo x 2

He fought Lemieux so finding it hard to see that Lemieux avoided him

He was due to face the Georgian prior to him being arrested and jailed for organised crime and racketeering or whatever it was

Eubank jnr rematch. Well the Eubanks ate notioursly hard to make fights with if we pay attention. Eubank jnr will say he wanted to win a belt to get equal measures at the negotiating table. Believe what you like. Still they fought once. So it’s not a Hatton vs witter or Khan brook situation

Saunders isn’t an avoided fighter imo

[Enlightened-One]

So he wanted ggg while he was tied up with Jacobs and Canelo x 2

Saunders had signed a contract to face GGG after his team had agreed the terms with Tom Loeffler. GGG decided against taking the fight at the last minute, because he received a bigger offer to face Canelo for their first bout.

A year later, Tom Loeffler stated that a deal had been reached for Golovkin to face Saunders if the talks for the rematch with Canelo broke down.

So Golovkin refused to face Saunders on two occasions, despite deals being reached twice.

He fought Lemieux so finding it hard to see that Lemieux avoided him

During mid-2017, Lemieux admitted that had to refuse an offer to take on WBO middleweight world champion Billy Joe Saunders on September 16th, 2017.

On the 7th July, 2017, Lemieux stated that he “really wanted to fight [Saunders], but the timing is not good for me because we are aiming for a bigger fight and the risks are high…"

At that moment in time, Lemieux was targeting a bout against Miguel Cotto.

He was due to face the Georgian prior to him being arrested and jailed for organised crime and racketeering or whatever it was

Frānk Wārrĕn had to pay Avtandil Khurtsidze a six-figure step-aside fee, coupled with having to agree to stage a bout for the Georgian against Tommy Langford for the WBO interim title, in order to get him to agree to step aside to allow Billy Joe to face Gennady Golovkin instead, but the Kazakh ended-up “losing his pen”.

When the Golovkin bout fell through, Saunders agreed to face Avtandil Khurtsidze and the date for the bout and the venue was set. However, the Georgian then withdrew from the fight.

So it's not unreasonable for me to claim that Avtandil Khurtsidze actually preferred to take step-aside money rather than face Billy Joe Saunders.

Eubank jnr rematch. Well the Eubanks ate notioursly hard to make fights with if we pay attention. Eubank jnr will say he wanted to win a belt to get equal measures at the negotiating table. Believe what you like. Still they fought once. So it’s not a Hatton vs witter or Khan brook situation

Team Saunders submitted three offers to Chris Eubank Jr. for the rematch (£800K & £900K and apparently a seven-figure payday).

Eubank Jr. rejected all of those offers and chose to defend his British title instead.

Saunders isn’t an avoided fighter imo

I’ll say it again, because this claim is true, at some point or other, Canelo, Golovkin, Lemieux, Khurtsidze, Andrade and Eubank Jr. have all previously either declined opportunities to face Saunders or expressed their disinterest in facing the Brit.

[Ossyrules]

So he wanted ggg while he was tied up with Jacobs and Canelo x 2

Saunders had signed a contract to face GGG after his team had agreed the terms with Tom Loeffler. GGG decided against taking the fight at the last minute, because he received a bigger offer to face Canelo for their first bout.

Tom Loeffler stated that a deal had been reached for Golovkin to face Saunders if the talks for the rematch with Canelo broke down.

So Golovkin refused to face Saunders on two occasions, despite deals being reached twice.

He fought Lemieux so finding it hard to see that Lemieux avoided him

During mid-2017, Lemieux admits that had to refuse an offer to take on WBO middleweight world champion Billy Joe Saunders on September 16th, 2017.

On the 7th July, 2017, Lemieux stated that he “really wanted to fight [Saunders], but the timing is not good for me because we are aiming for a bigger fight and the risks are high…"

At that moment in time, Lemieux was targeting a bout against Miguel Cotto.

He was due to face the Georgian prior to him being arrested and jailed for organised crime and racketeering or whatever it was

Frānk Wārrĕn had to pay Avtandil Khurtsidze a six-figure step-aside fee, coupled with having to agree to stage a bout for the Georgian against Tommy Langford for the WBO interim title, in order to get him to agree to step aside to allow Billy Joe to face Gennady Golovkin instead, but the Kazakh ended-up “losing his pen”.

When the Golovkin bout fell through, Saunders agreed to face Avtandil Khurtsidze and the date for the bout and the venue was set. However, the Georgian then withdrew from the bout.

Eubank jnr rematch. Well the Eubanks ate notioursly hard to make fights with if we pay attention. Eubank jnr will say he wanted to win a belt to get equal measures at the negotiating table. Believe what you like. Still they fought once. So it’s not a Hatton vs witter or Khan brook situation

Team Saunders submitted three offers to Chris Eubank Jr. for the rematch (£800K & £900K and apparently a seven-figure payday).

Saunders isn’t an avoided fighter imo

I’ll say it again, because this claim is true, at some point or other, Canelo, Golovkin, Lemieux, Khurtsidze, Andrade and Eubank Jr. have all previously either declined opportunities to face Saunders or expressed their disinterest in facing the Brit.

The first part of this post justified golovkin was “avoiding” Saunders. He had a more lucrative bout with Canelo being lined up. This isn’t a refusal to face Saunders. It entirely makes sense to go with the Canelo option, money, boxing legacy. It would be wise if you to distinguish between what is avoiding and what is going another route.

Remember Saunders openly stated he wasn’t ready for ggg. That is the only concrete evidence that any avoiding was done.

The rest of your post is basic propaganda and manufactured stories to justify and unlikely situation that Saunders is avoided.

[Enlightened-One]

So he wanted ggg while he was tied up with Jacobs and Canelo x 2

Saunders had signed a contract to face GGG after his team had agreed the terms with Tom Loeffler. GGG decided against taking the fight at the last minute, because he received a bigger offer to face Canelo for their first bout.

Tom Loeffler stated that a deal had been reached for Golovkin to face Saunders if the talks for the rematch with Canelo broke down.

So Golovkin refused to face Saunders on two occasions, despite deals being reached twice.

He fought Lemieux so finding it hard to see that Lemieux avoided him

During mid-2017, Lemieux admits that had to refuse an offer to take on WBO middleweight world champion Billy Joe Saunders on September 16th, 2017.

On the 7th July, 2017, Lemieux stated that he “really wanted to fight [Saunders], but the timing is not good for me because we are aiming for a bigger fight and the risks are high…"

At that moment in time, Lemieux was targeting a bout against Miguel Cotto.

He was due to face the Georgian prior to him being arrested and jailed for organised crime and racketeering or whatever it was

Frānk Wārrĕn had to pay Avtandil Khurtsidze a six-figure step-aside fee, coupled with having to agree to stage a bout for the Georgian against Tommy Langford for the WBO interim title, in order to get him to agree to step aside to allow Billy Joe to face Gennady Golovkin instead, but the Kazakh ended-up “losing his pen”.

When the Golovkin bout fell through, Saunders agreed to face Avtandil Khurtsidze and the date for the bout and the venue was set. However, the Georgian then withdrew from the bout.

Eubank jnr rematch. Well the Eubanks ate notioursly hard to make fights with if we pay attention. Eubank jnr will say he wanted to win a belt to get equal measures at the negotiating table. Believe what you like. Still they fought once. So it’s not a Hatton vs witter or Khan brook situation

Team Saunders submitted three offers to Chris Eubank Jr. for the rematch (£800K & £900K and apparently a seven-figure payday).

Saunders isn’t an avoided fighter imo

I’ll say it again, because this claim is true, at some point or other, Canelo, Golovkin, Lemieux, Khurtsidze, Andrade and Eubank Jr. have all previously either declined opportunities to face Saunders or expressed their disinterest in facing the Brit.

The first part of this post justified golovkin was “avoiding” Saunders. He had a more lucrative bout with Canelo being lined up. This isn’t a refusal to face Saunders. It entirely makes sense to go with the Canelo option, money, boxing legacy. It would be wise if you to distinguish between what is avoiding and what is going another route.

Remember Saunders openly stated he wasn’t ready for ggg. That is the only concrete evidence that any avoiding was done.

The rest of your post is basic propaganda and manufactured stories to justify and unlikely situation that Saunders is avoided.

Regardless of the reasons, Golovkin refused to accept a guaranteed opportunity to face Billy Joe Saunders on two separate occasions.

So let’s go back to the thoughts I originally conveyed in the post that started this debate:

Billy Joe Saunders and Guillermo Rigondeaux are two fighters that have been avoided quite a lot over the years, mainly because their fighting styles are an acquired taste, where the TV networks showed little interest in covering their bouts, resulting in their big name rivals being able to face easier opposition for better paydays.

I believe that any fighter that guarantees big paydays for their opponents will be called out by their rivals.

However, any boxer that is risky, but brings very little money to the negotiating table, will inevitably be avoided like the plague, because pugilists are known as "PRIZE" fighters not "PRIDE" fighters.

Everything I wrote is true and verified by all the parties that were involved.

I have previously posted videos and interview transcripts of all the parties involved in all the claims I made in this thread.

If you actually bothered to perform research, read the info. presented to you and also digest it, so you don’t forget important details…. You’d realise that I haven’t fȕck¡ng proposed “basic propaganda and manufactured stories”! Only an uneducated moron would say such things, whilst ignorantly failing to fact-check the validity of my claims!

I’ll say it for a third time, because this claim is true, at some point or other, Canelo, Golovkin, Lemieux, Khurtsidze, Andrade and Eubank Jr. have all previously either declined opportunities to face Saunders or expressed their disinterest in facing the Brit.

[Ossyrules]

Saunders had signed a contract to face GGG after his team had agreed the terms with Tom Loeffler. GGG decided against taking the fight at the last minute, because he received a bigger offer to face Canelo for their first bout.

Tom Loeffler stated that a deal had been reached for Golovkin to face Saunders if the talks for the rematch with Canelo broke down.

So Golovkin refused to face Saunders on two occasions, despite deals being reached twice.


During mid-2017, Lemieux admits that had to refuse an offer to take on WBO middleweight world champion Billy Joe Saunders on September 16th, 2017.

On the 7th July, 2017, Lemieux stated that he “really wanted to fight [Saunders], but the timing is not good for me because we are aiming for a bigger fight and the risks are high…"

At that moment in time, Lemieux was targeting a bout against Miguel Cotto.

Frānk Wārrĕn had to pay Avtandil Khurtsidze a six-figure step-aside fee, coupled with having to agree to stage a bout for the Georgian against Tommy Langford for the WBO interim title, in order to get him to agree to step aside to allow Billy Joe to face Gennady Golovkin instead, but the Kazakh ended-up “losing his pen”.

When the Golovkin bout fell through, Saunders agreed to face Avtandil Khurtsidze and the date for the bout and the venue was set. However, the Georgian then withdrew from the bout.

Team Saunders submitted three offers to Chris Eubank Jr. for the rematch (£800K & £900K and apparently a seven-figure payday).


I’ll say it again, because this claim is true, at some point or other, Canelo, Golovkin, Lemieux, Khurtsidze, Andrade and Eubank Jr. have all previously either declined opportunities to face Saunders or expressed their disinterest in facing the Brit.

The first part of this post justified golovkin was “avoiding” Saunders. He had a more lucrative bout with Canelo being lined up. This isn’t a refusal to face Saunders. It entirely makes sense to go with the Canelo option, money, boxing legacy. It would be wise if you to distinguish between what is avoiding and what is going another route.

Remember Saunders openly stated he wasn’t ready for ggg. That is the only concrete evidence that any avoiding was done.

The rest of your post is basic propaganda and manufactured stories to justify and unlikely situation that Saunders is avoided.

Regardless of the reasons, Golovkin refused to accept a guaranteed opportunity to face Billy Joe Saunders on two separate occasions.

So let’s go back to the thoughts I originally conveyed in the post that started this debate:

Billy Joe Saunders and Guillermo Rigondeaux are two fighters that have been avoided quite a lot over the years, mainly because their fighting styles are an acquired taste, where the TV networks showed little interest in covering their bouts, resulting in their big name rivals being able to face easier opposition for better paydays.

I believe that any fighter that guarantees big paydays for their opponents will be called out by their rivals.

However, any boxer that is risky, but brings very little money to the negotiating table, will inevitably be avoided like the plague, because pugilists are known as "PRIZE" fighters not "PRIDE" fighters.

Everything I wrote is true and verified by all the parties that were involved.

I have previously posted videos and interview transcripts of all the parties involved in all the claims I made in this thread.

If you actually bothered to perform research, read the info. presented to you and also digest it, so you don’t forget important details…. You’d realise that I haven’t fȕck¡ng proposed “basic propaganda and manufactured stories”! Only an uneducated moron would say such things, whilst ignorantly failing to fact-check the validity of my claims!

I’ll say it for a third time, because this claim is true, at some point or other, Canelo, Golovkin, Lemieux, Khurtsidze, Andrade and Eubank Jr. have all previously either declined opportunities to face Saunders or expressed their disinterest in facing the Brit.

Regardless of the reasons...

The reasons are everything! It determines what is a duck/avoid and what is facing another guy that makes business and boxing sense. It would be wise if you to distinguish between the 2.

Did golovkin also duck spike o Sullivan? I Sullivan has mentioned in various interviews etc he would love that shot. Golovkin hasn’t faced him. It must be cos golovkin is avoiding o Sullivan

Your golovkin anti bias is too strong in this conversation. If you seriously think golovkin has avoided Saunders then there is little I can do to help you

[Enlightened-One]

The first part of this post justified golovkin was “avoiding” Saunders. He had a more lucrative bout with Canelo being lined up. This isn’t a refusal to face Saunders. It entirely makes sense to go with the Canelo option, money, boxing legacy. It would be wise if you to distinguish between what is avoiding and what is going another route.

Remember Saunders openly stated he wasn’t ready for ggg. That is the only concrete evidence that any avoiding was done.

The rest of your post is basic propaganda and manufactured stories to justify and unlikely situation that Saunders is avoided.

Regardless of the reasons, Golovkin refused to accept a guaranteed opportunity to face Billy Joe Saunders on two separate occasions.

So let’s go back to the thoughts I originally conveyed in the post that started this debate:

Billy Joe Saunders and Guillermo Rigondeaux are two fighters that have been avoided quite a lot over the years, mainly because their fighting styles are an acquired taste, where the TV networks showed little interest in covering their bouts, resulting in their big name rivals being able to face easier opposition for better paydays.

I believe that any fighter that guarantees big paydays for their opponents will be called out by their rivals.

However, any boxer that is risky, but brings very little money to the negotiating table, will inevitably be avoided like the plague, because pugilists are known as "PRIZE" fighters not "PRIDE" fighters.

Everything I wrote is true and verified by all the parties that were involved.

I have previously posted videos and interview transcripts of all the parties involved in all the claims I made in this thread.

If you actually bothered to perform research, read the info. presented to you and also digest it, so you don’t forget important details…. You’d realise that I haven’t fȕck¡ng proposed “basic propaganda and manufactured stories”! Only an uneducated moron would say such things, whilst ignorantly failing to fact-check the validity of my claims!

I’ll say it for a third time, because this claim is true, at some point or other, Canelo, Golovkin, Lemieux, Khurtsidze, Andrade and Eubank Jr. have all previously either declined opportunities to face Saunders or expressed their disinterest in facing the Brit.

Regardless of the reasons...

The reasons are everything! It determines what is a duck/avoid and what is facing another guy that makes business and boxing sense. It would be wise if you to distinguish between the 2.

Did golovkin also duck spike o Sullivan? I Sullivan has mentioned in various interviews etc he would love that shot. Golovkin hasn’t faced him. It must be cos golovkin is avoiding o Sullivan

Your golovkin anti bias is too strong in this conversation. If you seriously think golovkin has avoided Saunders then there is little I can do to help you

It’s not Golovkin anti-bias! You didn’t even know about GGG refusing to take the Saunders bout on two separate occasions until I educated you on this easily-verifiable objective truth of reality.

All I’ve done is quote facts. You need to read what I’ve written and do your own research verify the accuracy of my words.

If you don’t have the time to do this via Google, use the BoxRec search feature to browse through either my posting history or Ruthless-RKO’s posts, as they’ll all inevitably contain quotes from interview transcripts, links to articles or videos.

Boxers “avoid” facing certain rivals for various reasons and I have already conceded that sometimes fighters usually prefer to seek the biggest paydays than earning less to attempt sporting goals, such as unifying the division.

I actually stated this in the very first post I submitted in this thread - you even quoted my words! FFS! Learn to read!

You need to pay attention during our debates, because your dishonesty is alarmingly ignorant!

[Ossyrules]

Regardless of the reasons, Golovkin refused to accept a guaranteed opportunity to face Billy Joe Saunders on two separate occasions.

So let’s go back to the thoughts I originally conveyed in the post that started this debate:

Everything I wrote is true and verified by all the parties that were involved.

I have previously posted videos and interview transcripts of all the parties involved in all the claims I made in this thread.

If you actually bothered to perform research, read the info. presented to you and also digest it, so you don’t forget important details…. You’d realise that I haven’t fȕck¡ng proposed “basic propaganda and manufactured stories”! Only an uneducated moron would say such things, whilst ignorantly failing to fact-check the validity of my claims!

I’ll say it for a third time, because this claim is true, at some point or other, Canelo, Golovkin, Lemieux, Khurtsidze, Andrade and Eubank Jr. have all previously either declined opportunities to face Saunders or expressed their disinterest in facing the Brit.

Regardless of the reasons...

The reasons are everything! It determines what is a duck/avoid and what is facing another guy that makes business and boxing sense. It would be wise if you to distinguish between the 2.

Did golovkin also duck spike o Sullivan? I Sullivan has mentioned in various interviews etc he would love that shot. Golovkin hasn’t faced him. It must be cos golovkin is avoiding o Sullivan

Your golovkin anti bias is too strong in this conversation. If you seriously think golovkin has avoided Saunders then there is little I can do to help you

It’s not Golovkin anti-bias! You didn’t even know about GGG refusing to take the Saunders bout on two separate occasions until I educated you on this easily-verifiable objective truth of reality.

All I’ve done is quote facts. You need to read what I’ve written and do your own research verify the accuracy of my words.

If you don’t have the time to do this via Google, use the BoxRec search feature to browse through either my posting history or Ruthless-RKO’s posts, as they’ll all inevitably contain quotes from interview transcripts, links to articles or videos.

Boxers “avoid” facing certain rivals for various reasons and I have already conceded that sometimes fighters usually prefer to seek the biggest paydays than earning less to attempt sporting goals, such as unifying the division.

You need to pay attention during our debates, because your dishonesty is alarmingly ignorant!

Apologies but you really haven’t educated me on any of that. I just don’t consider signing up to face Canelo a duck on Saunders. Did warren expect these offers to be taken seriously. Canelo is the legacy fight. Crazy from you.

anyway you know my stance. I think you’re wrong

[Enlightened-One]

Regardless of the reasons...

The reasons are everything! It determines what is a duck/avoid and what is facing another guy that makes business and boxing sense. It would be wise if you to distinguish between the 2.

Did golovkin also duck spike o Sullivan? I Sullivan has mentioned in various interviews etc he would love that shot. Golovkin hasn’t faced him. It must be cos golovkin is avoiding o Sullivan

Your golovkin anti bias is too strong in this conversation. If you seriously think golovkin has avoided Saunders then there is little I can do to help you

It’s not Golovkin anti-bias! You didn’t even know about GGG refusing to take the Saunders bout on two separate occasions until I educated you on this easily-verifiable objective truth of reality.

All I’ve done is quote facts. You need to read what I’ve written and do your own research verify the accuracy of my words.

If you don’t have the time to do this via Google, use the BoxRec search feature to browse through either my posting history or Ruthless-RKO’s posts, as they’ll all inevitably contain quotes from interview transcripts, links to articles or videos.

Boxers “avoid” facing certain rivals for various reasons and I have already conceded that sometimes fighters usually prefer to seek the biggest paydays than earning less to attempt sporting goals, such as unifying the division.

You need to pay attention during our debates, because your dishonesty is alarmingly ignorant!

Apologies but you really haven’t educated me on any of that. I just don’t consider signing up to face Canelo a duck on Saunders. Did warren expect these offers to be taken seriously. Canelo is the legacy fight. Crazy from you.

anyway you know my stance. I think you’re wrong

I’ll say it for a fourth time, because this claim is true, at some point or other, Canelo, Golovkin, Lemieux, Khurtsidze, Andrade and Eubank Jr. have all previously either declined opportunities to face Saunders or expressed their disinterest in facing the Brit.

Anybody following our discussion will appreciate that I’ve successfully undermined your counter-arguments, which were borne from ignorance rather than knowledge.

You didn’t know about Saunders’ situations with Canelo, Golovkin, Lemieux, Khurtsidze, Andrade and Eubank Jr. until I educated you on the real-world facts!

In the future, attack my actual words – don’t misrepresent my thoughts by attacking claims I never made, as that's a "straw man" dishonest debating tactic!

[Ossyrules]

It’s not Golovkin anti-bias! You didn’t even know about GGG refusing to take the Saunders bout on two separate occasions until I educated you on this easily-verifiable objective truth of reality.

All I’ve done is quote facts. You need to read what I’ve written and do your own research verify the accuracy of my words.

If you don’t have the time to do this via Google, use the BoxRec search feature to browse through either my posting history or Ruthless-RKO’s posts, as they’ll all inevitably contain quotes from interview transcripts, links to articles or videos.

Boxers “avoid” facing certain rivals for various reasons and I have already conceded that sometimes fighters usually prefer to seek the biggest paydays than earning less to attempt sporting goals, such as unifying the division.

You need to pay attention during our debates, because your dishonesty is alarmingly ignorant!

Apologies but you really haven’t educated me on any of that. I just don’t consider signing up to face Canelo a duck on Saunders. Did warren expect these offers to be taken seriously. Canelo is the legacy fight. Crazy from you.

anyway you know my stance. I think you’re wrong

I’ll say it for a fourth time, because this claim is true, at some point or other, Canelo, Golovkin, Lemieux, Khurtsidze, Andrade and Eubank Jr. have all previously either declined opportunities to face Saunders or expressed their disinterest in facing the Brit.

Anybody following our discussion will appreciate that I’ve successfully undermined your counter-arguments, which were borne from ignorance rather than knowledge.

You didn’t know about Saunders’ situations with Canelo, Golovkin, Lemieux, Khurtsidze, Andrade and Eubank Jr. until I educated you on the real-world facts!

In the future, attack my actual words – don’t misrepresent my thoughts by attacking claims I never made, as that's a "straw man" dishonest debating tactic!

Last post. It would be wise for you to assess why fights get made and why they don’t. You will then be able to decider if any ducking hasn’t happened or whether the fight wasn’t a serious option

Anyone following this discussion will see you have autistic methods of argument and are solely focused on events without having any concept to reasoning

Enjoy your boxing, and try to learn

[Enlightened-One]

Apologies but you really haven’t educated me on any of that. I just don’t consider signing up to face Canelo a duck on Saunders. Did warren expect these offers to be taken seriously. Canelo is the legacy fight. Crazy from you.

anyway you know my stance. I think you’re wrong

I’ll say it for a fourth time, because this claim is true, at some point or other, Canelo, Golovkin, Lemieux, Khurtsidze, Andrade and Eubank Jr. have all previously either declined opportunities to face Saunders or expressed their disinterest in facing the Brit.

Anybody following our discussion will appreciate that I’ve successfully undermined your counter-arguments, which were borne from ignorance rather than knowledge.

You didn’t know about Saunders’ situations with Canelo, Golovkin, Lemieux, Khurtsidze, Andrade and Eubank Jr. until I educated you on the real-world facts!

In the future, attack my actual words – don’t misrepresent my thoughts by attacking claims I never made, as that's a "straw man" dishonest debating tactic!

Last post. It would be wise for you to assess why fights get made and why they don’t. You will then be able to decider if any ducking hasn’t happened or whether the fight wasn’t a serious option

Anyone following this discussion will see you have autistic methods of argument and are solely focused on events without having any concept to reasoning

Enjoy your boxing, and try to learn

Please quote any sentence I wrote in this particular thread where I used the word "duck"?

You can't, because IT SIMPLY DIDN'T HAPPEN!

[IKSRTFO]

Who's the No 1 most avoided ?

Among the big dogs Spence has been putting himself about looking for a fight.

He straight up called out Terence Crawford by saying who has he fought.

Spence directly took a shot at Crawford's record.

That's calling somebody out.

No, he didn't call Crawford out. He use those points to diminish Crawford to why he shouldn't have to fight a Bob Arum guy with a questionable record. He basically took a shot at a guy he had no intention of fighting because everyone keeps talking about Crawford. A petty move IMO.

Petty move.

He stood right in front of the mic and dissed Crawford to the media and that's not calling him out.
It's calling him out where I come from.

Did you even listen to what he said? He basically said "Crawford is on the other side of the street and I need to fight these guys (Porter/Garcia/Garcia/Thurman) first." Then he went on a rant saying "Crawford is not on my level. That's why y'all should'n't be asking me to fight him"

That's basically ducking.

[Gnome]

Fres Oquendo!

[Enlightened-One]

No, he didn't call Crawford out. He use those points to diminish Crawford to why he shouldn't have to fight a Bob Arum guy with a questionable record. He basically took a shot at a guy he had no intention of fighting because everyone keeps talking about Crawford. A petty move IMO.

Petty move.

He stood right in front of the mic and dissed Crawford to the media and that's not calling him out.
It's calling him out where I come from.

Did you even listen to what he said? He basically said "Crawford is on the other side of the street and I need to fight these guys (Porter/Garcia/Garcia/Thurman) first." Then he went on a rant saying "Crawford is not on my level. That's why y'all should'n't be asking me to fight him"

That's basically ducking.

How many of Al Haymon’s world-rated fighters, those that are affiliated with PBC/Fox/Showtime, have actually competed on a Top Rank fight card this year?

I can only name one, which is Artur Beterbiev. There might be more, but I can’t think of any, can you?

Now that the PBC have signed multi-year deals with both Fox and Showtime, it’s going to make it much harder for Bob Arum to match members of the Top Rank stable to those affiliated with Al Haymon.

These sort of political hurdles aren’t new to the sport of boxing and I’m surprised that you aren’t aware of such a basic concept (i.e. the same obstacles that hindered or prevented the staging of the following bouts: Tyson-Lewis, Mayweather-Pacquiao, Kovalev-Stevenson etc.).

[IKSRTFO]

Petty move.

He stood right in front of the mic and dissed Crawford to the media and that's not calling him out.
It's calling him out where I come from.

Did you even listen to what he said? He basically said "Crawford is on the other side of the street and I need to fight these guys (Porter/Garcia/Garcia/Thurman) first." Then he went on a rant saying "Crawford is not on my level. That's why y'all should'n't be asking me to fight him"

That's basically ducking.

How many of Al Haymon’s world-rated fighters, those that are affiliated with PBC/Fox/Showtime, have actually competed on a Top Rank fight card this year?

I can only name one, which is Artur Beterbiev. There might be more, but I can’t think of any, can you?

Now that the PBC have signed multi-year deals with both Fox and Showtime, it’s going to make it much harder for Bob Arum to match members of the Top Rank stable to those affiliated with Al Haymon.

These sort of political hurdles aren’t new to the sport of boxing and I’m surprised that you aren’t aware of such a basic concept (i.e. the same obstacles that hindered or prevented the staging of the following bouts: Tyson-Lewis, Mayweather-Pacquiao, Kovalev-Stevenson etc.).

I am aware. It's just not Spence place nor job to bring that up as an excuse to not fight arguably the #1 P4P. Outside of Floyd and Pacquiao, what top boxer bring that up as a reason not to fight the top boxer in their weightclass? It's not like Spence is Floyd Mayweather or Pacquiao.

Spence gave a weak excuse to duck, period.

[Enlightened-One]

Did you even listen to what he said? He basically said "Crawford is on the other side of the street and I need to fight these guys (Porter/Garcia/Garcia/Thurman) first." Then he went on a rant saying "Crawford is not on my level. That's why y'all should'n't be asking me to fight him"

That's basically ducking.

How many of Al Haymon’s world-rated fighters, those that are affiliated with PBC/Fox/Showtime, have actually competed on a Top Rank fight card this year?

I can only name one, which is Artur Beterbiev. There might be more, but I can’t think of any, can you?

Now that the PBC have signed multi-year deals with both Fox and Showtime, it’s going to make it much harder for Bob Arum to match members of the Top Rank stable to those affiliated with Al Haymon.

These sort of political hurdles aren’t new to the sport of boxing and I’m surprised that you aren’t aware of such a basic concept (i.e. the same obstacles that hindered or prevented the staging of the following bouts: Tyson-Lewis, Mayweather-Pacquiao, Kovalev-Stevenson etc.).

I am aware. It's just not Spence place nor job to bring that up as an excuse to not fight arguably the #1 P4P. Outside of Floyd and Pacquiao, what top boxer bring that up as a reason not to fight the top boxer in their weightclass? It's not like Spence is Floyd Mayweather or Pacquiao.

Spence gave a weak excuse to duck, period.

Are you suggesting that Errol Spence Jr. possesses enough influence over TV networks like Fox, Showtime & ESPN, as well as important figures such as Bob Arum and Al Haymon, whereby all he needs to do is click his fingers and all those parties would be automatically compelled to adhere to his orders by staging a bout between himself and Terence Crawford?

Is that how you feel the sport of boxing works?

I'm not mocking you - instead I am merely curious.

[tiny_acres]

How many of Al Haymon’s world-rated fighters, those that are affiliated with PBC/Fox/Showtime, have actually competed on a Top Rank fight card this year?

I can only name one, which is Artur Beterbiev. There might be more, but I can’t think of any, can you?

Now that the PBC have signed multi-year deals with both Fox and Showtime, it’s going to make it much harder for Bob Arum to match members of the Top Rank stable to those affiliated with Al Haymon.

These sort of political hurdles aren’t new to the sport of boxing and I’m surprised that you aren’t aware of such a basic concept (i.e. the same obstacles that hindered or prevented the staging of the following bouts: Tyson-Lewis, Mayweather-Pacquiao, Kovalev-Stevenson etc.).

I am aware. It's just not Spence place nor job to bring that up as an excuse to not fight arguably the #1 P4P. Outside of Floyd and Pacquiao, what top boxer bring that up as a reason not to fight the top boxer in their weightclass? It's not like Spence is Floyd Mayweather or Pacquiao.

Spence gave a weak excuse to duck, period.

Are you suggesting that Errol Spence Jr. possesses enough influence over TV networks like Fox, Showtime & ESPN, as well as important figures such as Bob Arum and Al Haymon, whereby all he needs to do is click his fingers and all those parties would be automatically compelled to adhere to his orders by staging a bout between himself and Terence Crawford?

Is that how you feel the sport of boxing works?

I'm not mocking you - instead I am merely curious.

EO it's no more asinine than the people thinking Wilder controls VADA or the WBC.
Or that Amir Khan is the PPV equal to Pacquia and can control negotiations.

But back to the topic. No Spence has near zero power in the sport. He controls nothing.
But his knocking of Crawford was one of 2 things either a blatant duck.
Or in my opinion a call out to frustrate Team Crawford and to generate interest in the future fight.
It is a fight that is 18-24 months away from being a blockbuster in my opinion.
And I doubt we see until then

[IKSRTFO]

How many of Al Haymon’s world-rated fighters, those that are affiliated with PBC/Fox/Showtime, have actually competed on a Top Rank fight card this year?

I can only name one, which is Artur Beterbiev. There might be more, but I can’t think of any, can you?

Now that the PBC have signed multi-year deals with both Fox and Showtime, it’s going to make it much harder for Bob Arum to match members of the Top Rank stable to those affiliated with Al Haymon.

These sort of political hurdles aren’t new to the sport of boxing and I’m surprised that you aren’t aware of such a basic concept (i.e. the same obstacles that hindered or prevented the staging of the following bouts: Tyson-Lewis, Mayweather-Pacquiao, Kovalev-Stevenson etc.).

I am aware. It's just not Spence place nor job to bring that up as an excuse to not fight arguably the #1 P4P. Outside of Floyd and Pacquiao, what top boxer bring that up as a reason not to fight the top boxer in their weightclass? It's not like Spence is Floyd Mayweather or Pacquiao.

Spence gave a weak excuse to duck, period.

Are you suggesting that Errol Spence Jr. possesses enough influence over TV networks like Fox, Showtime & ESPN, as well as important figures such as Bob Arum and Al Haymon, whereby all he needs to do is click his fingers and all those parties would be automatically compelled to adhere to his orders by staging a bout between himself and Terence Crawford?

Is that how you feel the sport of boxing works?

I'm not mocking you - instead I am merely curious.

According to him,, he's his own promoter(Man Down Promotions) and can fight whoever he wants, he just works with Al Haymon. Even if he didn't have the power, that would disqualify him from tearing apart the resume of a fighter that he can't fight anyway. Why even go on a rant if he doesn't have the power to fight Crawford? That's why I think it was a petty and duck move.