top 10 british heavyweights of all time

[cfang]

Absolutely no idea where this Bruno love comes from. I was making the point about being a fan to show that I watched pretty much every Bruno fight from the very early days so I have seen a lot of him.

He wasn't much rated at the time and it's funny anyone rates him now. Sure he'd beat inferior opposition with his size, strength and Jab but he'd come up short every time he fought anyone of note. He was brilliantly managed and they were careful to avoid anyone dangerous. His issues were he was slow and predictable and robotic but the major problem was he got caught he was unable to defend himself. Not to mention too he was terrified against Tyson the second time and it showed in his performance.

Aj is a class above. Better boxer, better pedigree (Olympic gold anyone), better puncher and has yet to be beaten.

Bruno was a good fighter who always was in shape and took his chance against mccall but a class below Joshua. He wouldn't have beaten wlad or povetkin as they were top heavys and Bruno always lost to top heavys.



quote=oogiebe post_id=5062381 time=1544888181 user_id=53017]

Peaking Bruno beating Joshua? Aj has like all the belts minus 1. Bruno was found wanting at the top level. Any version of Frank has zero chance against AJ and I grew up watching all Bruno's fights and was a big fan.



best wins are against a tourist version of coetzee and the messed up macall. He was well managed and his best fight was no doubt against Lewis. Aj is a class above Bruno.

Points of view: I was never a fan of anyone or anything, not even of my favourite food.
Let me set this fandom issue straight: when I realised I was no fan and had no idols, I started thinking there was something wrong with me, and I could've just not accepted I was a fan like everyone else, so I googled "people with no idols", and a pretty little nice quote from Ayrton Senna came out, going more or less like this: "I have no idols: I admire hard work, dedication and competence"... good enough for me.

Why did I do the digression right above? To state that fandom might be deceitful, one way or another: I had an argument with a deluded Juventus and former Zidane fan, arguing that good old Totti (which never reached Zidane's technical peaks) was better than his former idol, raving about Zidane not possessing a good-enough shot, probably deluded by Zidane leaving Juventus for Real Madrid or so...

All that said, I still believe that Bruno's opposition was more dangerous than Joshua's, being Bruno's era's heavyweight scene more competitive in every aspect.
Bruno was also clearly faster with a mean jab and enough reach (probably the same of Joshua) to keep him at distance.

Joshua has never faced an opponent with the assets of Bruno. Old Klitschko wasn't nearly as dangerous as a peaking Bruno, and that's by far the strongest opposition Joshua ever faced.
So, please... Joshua is the most overhyped fighter I can remember, even more overhyped than Bernard Hopkins or GGG, both still p4p obviously better than Joshua.

Sorry for writing so much, but I had to back up my arguments.

Real nice post Jacob. I agree on Bruno over AJ, and really loved the fandom points you make.
[/quote]

[cfang]

The Bugner win means little because Bugner was unranked at that time and hadn't been a serious contender in years.
Not only does Anthony Joshua have more wins over ranked opponents (3 or 4) vs 2, he doesn't have all of Bruno's losses. It's too easy to call Anthony Joshua an ATG perhaps but he has already accomplished more than Bruno by any reasonable criteria.

A reasonable ranking would be
1. Lennox Lewis
2. Anthony Joshua
3. Tyson Fury
4. Tommy Farr
5. Joe Bugner
6. Frank Bruno
7. Dillian Whyte

[jamamb]

lol pretty funny that people would use the 'who has he beaten!!?" line to argue as if bruno is clearly above joshua, ya, um check out brunos glittering record full of great wins

btw why does like nearly every fantasy match have some sort of big bias towards predicting extreme outcomes like a beating? so many fights even from top fighters were much less decisive and emphatic. thats no statement about this fight but just in general

[Ambling Alp II]

Bruno is by no means a legend. But at least he does have wins over Coeztee and McCall. Compared to Muhammad Ali that is a joke. Compared to Joshua and most of these guys, that is a big deal.
Almost none of these guys have huge wins. We have to compare decent wins to wins that mean even less.

[cfang]

Ah yes but both those wins are questionable. Coetzee went over easy, looked flabby and spent most of his time in London site seeing. He was a shell of the fighter of a few years earlier and was finished. He clearly came for the pay day. McCall a lot of issues not least mental or drug related.

[Neil Gee]

Bruno was far from perfect, but he least he had some decent scalps. So far, Fury and Joshua biggest win is over a guy in his 40s.

Some guy in his 40's who had been heavyweight champion for 11 years, Alp. If that's not a decent scalp, what is?

[Ambling Alp II]

Beating Coeztee and McCall for example. Not legends by any means. They certainly had their flaws. But they were decent wins. They didn't have glass jaws and had decent stamina. They weren't senior citizen's either. Bruno fought well to win these fights.

Klitschko was 41 years old when he Joshua beat him. klitschko had had a fight in 17 months. Klitschko had not won a fight in two years. And Joshua got decked and almost stopped. That is embarrassing. He doesn't deserve any credit for that win. Lamon Brewster's win over Klitschko was more impressive.

[jamamb]

lol, ya ajs cant possibly be better then bruno because bruno beat coetzee

[Cojimar 1946]

Coetzee was probably well past his prime against Bruno and had a far less impressive career than Wladimir begin with. Frankly the Klitschko win seems far more impressive.

Wladimir Klistchko was still highly rated going into the fight with Joshua, being ranked number 2 by Ring Magazine and viewed by virtually all boxing fans as still one of the best heavyweights in the world. There is no valid reason I can see to say the win is anything less than a win over one of the best heavyweights in the world and thus an extremely impressive win.

[oogiebe]

Coetzee was probably well past his prime against Bruno and had a far less impressive career than Wladimir begin with. Frankly the Klitschko win seems far more impressive.

So what if he hadn't won a fight in 17 months, many fighters have successfully come off layoffs to deliver good performances. Vitali Klitschko against Peter for example.

AJ is far from done so his body of work isn't complete. Much can happen. Mike Tyson was being considered the greatest of all time through thirty something fights and now that he's done, he's no longer in the discussion. We'll see in good time what AJ is all about. Until then, I take Bruno.

[jamamb]

go for bruno but the whole angle of bruno beating far far better opposition that puts him well beyond aj as a fighter is ridiculous

lol well bruno beat coetzee so therefore brunos superior to aj?

[oogiebe]

go for bruno but the whole angle of bruno beating far far better opposition that puts him well beyond aj as a fighter is ridiculous

lol well bruno beat coetzee so therefore brunos superior to aj?

No, that doesn't make sense.

[DrDuke]

Joshua is a noticeably more accomploshed and a better boxer overall, than Bruno. I don't know, how it can even be argued.

[cfang]

Joshua is a noticeably more accomploshed and a better boxer overall, than Bruno. I don't know, how it can even be argued.

[Jacopodb]

I'm still convinced that Coetzee and McCall were more dangerous than the Klitschko and Povetkin that faced Joshua, as well as the other less-talented journeymen that Bruno had to face before reaching the big names.

I'm still convinced, moreover, that Joshua is the most overhyped boxer of his era, to say the least, and the hysterical laughing emoticons used in this thread to back up Joshua hype are pretty much confirming my argument.

I cannot figure how anyone could claim Joshua's "Olympic gold" as an argument to state his greatness: that was a plain shame for the sport: some even say that he was given the silver medal too easy, by a British-biased jury; I don't know, it's not my problem, but the gold at least was a blatant robbery, and people all over the world have acknowledged this: it's not certainly something to be proud of.

Joshua is just a fair craftsman with great physical/athletic assets who's merrily floating in a pond alongside much smaller fishes. One like Bruno would just need to train with the right trainers, responsibly enough, trusting the right entourage and getting fit enough for the job (Joshua doesn't have much more than his impressively fit body, that's why he only won against older, smaller or fatter opponents with none of his complexion-related advantages: he would lose to pretty much any big and fit heavyweight champion in history, including Bruno), to give Joshua a good old-fashioned beating.

[Jacopodb]

All the arguments used to back up a possible Joshua's win over Bruno I have met until now, including the ones used in this thread, are pretty much as worthy as low-profile, mindlessly self-indulgent cheerleading.

[Jacopodb]

Joshua is a noticeably more accomploshed and a better boxer overall, than Bruno. I don't know, how it can even be argued.

Just figure out you could put prime Bruno inside the Mayweather Boxing Club and give him Roger Mayweather's care for a couple of years: he would unify all of today's belts and get rid of Joshua.

[Jacopodb]

Just for the chronicles: Joshua is a better boxer than Bruno as much as he's slower than him (Bruno had clearly faster hands than Joshua), so, considering that Joshua could barely stand a washed-up older fighter with similar physical assets, it's logical that Bruno would've eaten Joshua alive, pretty much.

[DrDuke]

They both are robotic and not very inventive fighters. However, Joshua is still more advanced.

[Jacopodb]

They both are robotic and not very inventive fighters. However, Joshua is still more advanced.

Count in the fact that boxing technique has evolved a lot since the 80's. One like Lomachenko could've never happened 35 years ago.

We must contextualize everything: also consider that Joshua, despite being more refined than Bruno and possessing a terrific one-two, has never faced a boxer with his same physical assets, or just the shadow of a footwork.

Facing a guy as big and fit as him, with Bruno's hanspeed (nevertheless remarkable for a boxer his size), mean jab and thunderous right hand, would be an utter trauma for Joshua, who would have to rely on his own defense (the only real Bruno's weak spot), being continuously roughed up and hammered around by the 80's champion.

So we'd have to take a boxer who has Bruno's makings and transfer him to nowadays, with nowadays' technological and technical assets: in that case, he would make a much better fighter than Joshua, IMHO.

[Bodyshot3]

Coetzee would have been a nasty prospect for Frank if the clock had been wound back a couple of years....maybe another Bonecrusher moment because Coetzee could crack more than a bit.

But Lawless and Duff got their timing right for that one and Gerrie knew that he'd make a bundle of Rand.

Personally, I always felt the later Bruno was the far better if less exciting version.

He finally learned a bit about pacing himself, using some of that strength to tie up a guy and give himself a breather and showed some patience by using that thudding jab to win rounds.

He was the complete article against McCall and I don't think Oliver was in La-La Land at that juncture...it is a big win for a decent belt and deserves some kudos because McCall was 'with it' at this juncture.

[Cojimar 1946]

I'd pick the Klitschko that lost to Joshua to easily beat Bruno. What wins does Bruno have suggesting he is remotely near the level of even a faded Klitschko?

[cfang]

I'd pick the Klitschko that lost to Joshua to easily beat Bruno. What wins does Bruno have suggesting he is remotely near the level of even a faded Klitschko?

Agreed. This is like some alternative reality lol. I mean, I've been on this board for well over a decade and I've seen some stuff but Bruno to beat the likes of wlad and Joshua ..... ridiculous. There just no evidence to suggest it.

[dr_devious]

Bruno would have a punchers chance against both of them, especially Vlad whose chin hasn't always answered the questions asked of it

[Jacopodb]

Coetzee would have been a nasty prospect for Frank if the clock had been wound back a couple of years....maybe another Bonecrusher moment because Coetzee could crack more than a bit.

But Lawless and Duff got their timing right for that one and Gerrie knew that he'd make a bundle of Rand.

Personally, I always felt the later Bruno was the far better if less exciting version.

He finally learned a bit about pacing himself, using some of that strength to tie up a guy and give himself a breather and showed some patience by using that thudding jab to win rounds.

He was the complete article against McCall and I don't think Oliver was in La-La Land at that juncture...it is a big win for a decent belt and deserves some kudos because McCall was 'with it' at this juncture.

That's a lucid-enough analysis: Bruno had a remarkable record before meeting Bonecrusher Smith, which was no Alice in wonderland, either.
A record earned mainly over journeymen, anyhow more fit than the fat, short, desperate-enough bums (with all due respect) that faced Joshua, earning the payday of their dreams, without having a clue on anything else than their own payday.

Bruno was robotic: Vitali Klitschko was on the other hand as robotic and intricate as they come, more fit for kickboxing than for the sweet science, yet was tough as nails, giving Lennox Lewis "the time of his life": Klitschko gave Lewis hell, and Lewis knew it, claiming in the post-fight interview that he was "tougher" than Vitali... that fight could've been a huge upset, and Lennox knew it better than anyone else.

So be careful with intricate, awkward, unorthodox fighters, for they're as dangerous as they can get: one time I sparred with an ugly-styled amateur boxer who was not-so-gentle with me, as I had been with him, probably out of fear, I don't know. I was much less than irresistible either, I know enough.
So I told my trainer: "that guy's just stiff, I could counter him downstairs", and the trainer told me: "he could even be stiff, but he does one hell of a damage".

So, Bruno might have been widely robotic, unorthodox, awkward, stiff... all you want, but he was causing one hell of a pain with those jab-faint/pause-overhand rights, dangerous lead rights or else.

Besides, the term "bruno", in Italian, can be translated in "moor", or "dark": I wonder where he got that surname from.