Canelo beating heavier Pavlik or Martinez (without schooling Martinez for sure, like GGG was schooled, and struggling much more than he did against GGG) might be plausible, but it's not certainly a point that proves my argument wrong.apollo creed wrote: ↑27 Dec 2018, 08:32I think the nowadays version of Canelo beats any version of Pavlik or Martinez. So does Jacobs.Jacopodb wrote: ↑27 Dec 2018, 08:26That's a good-enough point, if we consider the boxing middleweight scene of nowadays: but if we compare today's middleweight scene, with the middleweight scene of just a few years ago, you might acknowledge that it's not the same.apollo creed wrote: ↑27 Dec 2018, 07:20 The Ring Magazine's Annual Ratings:
Middleweight division
GGG's top 10 ranked opponents:
Grzegorz Proksa (10) 2012
Matthew Macklin (6); Curtis Stevens(10) 2013
Daniel Geale (4) 2014 for the World Boxing Association Super World Middleweight Title
David Lemieux (4) 2015 IBF champion for the International Boxing Federation World Middleweight Title
Daniel Jacobs (2) 2017
Saul Alvarez, (Champion) 2017
All I can see is that GGG's resume can compete in terms of achievements at 160 lbs weight division with Pavlik, Martinez, Taylor or Hopkins resumes.
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Lemieux, just to name the one I know better among the ones you named, knocked out bums in Canada, just like Bute, but when he came out, he was schooled by Rubio, who, I guess, at his peak, could give GGG a hard time, if not a lesson.
In today's poor boxing middleweight scene, even Lemieux (don't mistake: the guy's alright, dangerous enough for the honest GGG, but not enough to scare Rubio, for instance...) might easily look scarier than he actually is.
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Fact is that GGG has never met a big, relentless heavy puncher like Pavlik, an overly-skilled, hitting-from-all-angles, power puncher like Martinez, or a fast-and-furious swarmer like Taylor.
I respect your point, but we must always contextualise.
Canelo would be fortunate earning a draw or a SD against both, by the way, as I see it.
Canelo has enormous and great professional experience for a guy so young, therefore, as much as amateur boxing is so different from pro, long-term amateurs like GGG will struggle more than a bit to survive to him; a slick, experienced, boisterous guy like Pavlik would be tougher opposition for Canelo. Martinez could be even worse...
I'm praising GGG, he's been honest and courageous enough to face one like Canelo, so props to GGG. Not to mention that GGG might have had a solid payday for his Canelo fights: that's not overly honourable... He cetrainly didn't do it for charity, and years ago, despite being older than Canelo, he was sure unripe enough to fight him, coming from a long amateur career.
Both Jacobs, and that Pirog he lost from (I've checked him and he looks like a dangerous power puncher), haven't built their career against great opposition, so despite Jacobs' great athletic assets, I don't believe he could give Martinez more than a concern... And if that Pirog (who beat Jacobs) would try to go toe-to-toe with 2007's Pavlik, trading shots with him, he might go to sleep a little earlier than he had planned.