oogiebe wrote: ↑27 Jan 2019, 14:14
Best Coast wrote: ↑26 Jan 2019, 20:18
You conveniently avoid the question of whether you were even a boxing fan during Duran's prime (the 1970s) or whether you were even living in America when you claim Duran was so "beloved" by American sports fans. Did you actually watch his televised fights when he was still active or did you just dredge up YouTube videos long after the fact?
I've heard many stories from older friends & relatives who actually went to see Joe Louis fight and tell me how Americans used to around gather around the radio to hear his fights before TV days. And I have watched videos of Louis' epic fights many decades later, but that's not the same as being around in the days it was actually happening. I admire and respect Louis but it's not like I can ever be a fan of his from the days when he is alive and fighting in his prime.
You said fans at MSG sang happy birthday after Duran "beat the poo out of
a kid from the Bronx." The fact that you cannot even identify world jr middle champ Davey Moore by name sounds like you werent even around back then when
that was one of Roberto's most epic fights!! That shows you probably werent plugged into the sport enough back then to know who Davey Moore was. Were you even alive back then or is the 1970/80s something you watched on the History Channel?
If you were a boxing fan back then, were you even living in the US then (or ever for that matter)? I'm not pompous enough to try lecturing British fans on who was the most popular foreign fighter in the UK in the 1970s (or whenever) because I didnt live there then and never have. So I dont have the personal experience with British boxing culture like someone who does live there, so I wont PRETEND that I do.
I was and I did. Duran was very popular in the states. He fought on ABC a couple of times (Ray Lampkins fight was real good) and HBO as the decade came to close, and most of the folks I knew rooted for him against Leonard the first fight. Many non-boxing fans knew who he was and casuals absolutely knew him and watched his fights. It was during this time (especially at Lightweight up to his beating Leonard) that Duran's popularity rose. Boxing was huge during this period thanks to the HW's (Ali; Frazier; Norton; Foreman) but the lower weights were also enjoying immense popularity. I'd bet the views on his fights were pretty damn good too.
Oogie...you've always been upfront about the fact you are American and have even pointed out you are from the northeastern US. I really appreciate you sharing your personal experience with Duran fans, as well as watching his fights when they happened. You are definitely correct when you point out that Duran's peak popularity in the was in his prime: from his lightweight days through the win over Leonard in June 1980. His nationally televised US debut vs world LW champ Ken Buchanan in June 1972 was his intro to casual American fans. So his peak popularity in the US was 8 years, from 1972-80. Like yourself, I've know many Duran fans over the years and I'm sure you'll agree that a large number of them lost massive respect for Roberto after the "No mas" quit job against SRL.
Living in the southwestern US (less than 10 miles from Mexican border) I was well aware that large number of Mexicans/Mex-Americans on
both sides of the border were big Duran fans, with many claiming Duran as Mexican. His Mexican-American father was stationed in Panama with the US Army and left Panama before Roberto was even born. Hardly ANY of them were claiming Duran as Mexican after the "No mas" debacle, since quitting is considered disgraceful in Mexican culture. Even in Duran's native Panama, his "No Mas" was a
tremendous national disgrace:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugar_Ray ... Post-fight
Durán's stature in his home country, Panama, took a dramatic dive after the fight. The immediate reaction was shock, followed by anger. Within hours, commercials featuring Durán (in both Panama and the United States) were ordered off the air.
I'm not saying Duran was not one of the more popular foreign-born boxers in the US because he was. But he was not as popular as Manny Pacquiao has been for the past decade, following Pac's breakthrough win over box-office superstar Oscar De La Hoya in late 2008. That's when millions of casuals became Pacman fans, even though Pac had large numbers of hardcore fans, well before that, following his US debut in 2001 (when he won his 3rd world title).
As a frequent commenter here at Current Scene, it's obvious you are very well-versed on the American boxing scene and have been for quite a while. I respect your opinion and do not question your credibility regarding the US boxing scene, but this sanctimonious troll "OTO"
insists Duran was more popular in America than Manny has ever been. Yet he refuses to answer the simple question of whether if he has ever even lived in the US, let alone acknowledge where he IS from. That leads me to believe this troll has never even lived here, much less lived here during the time of Duran's prime and peak US popularity.
If you or I started lecturing Russian fans on who the most popular boxer in Russia is, we would be laughed at and justifiably so. Not having ever lived in Russia and personally interacted with Russian boxing fans we would have NO credibility on Russian boxing culture. I would never pretend to have a grasp on Russian boxing culture like I do with American or Mexican boxing culture...that would be ridiculous!!
In like manner I cannot take this guy OTO seriously because he wont even admit whether or not he was living in America during the period when he claims Duran was more popular in the US than Pacquiao has ever been.
Like yourself, I'm upfront about my biases and favorites, but this guy must be afraid to expose his biases/favoritism by admitting where he is from. We all have our biases and favorites but I'm suspicious of those who pretend to have objectivity or neutrality like this guy OTO does.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pay-per-v ... al_boxing)
The leading PPV attraction, Floyd Mayweather Jr. has generated approximately 24 million buys and $1.6 billion in revenue. Manny Pacquiao, ranked second, has generated approximately 19.2 million buys and $1.2 billion in revenue. Oscar De La Hoya, has "sold" approximately 14 million units in total, giving $700 million in domestic television receipts and stands third. In fourth place in buys, Evander Holyfield has achieved 12.6 million units ($550 million); and at fifth, Mike Tyson has reached 12.4 million units ($545 million).
Add another .4 million PPV buys for Pac-Broner and it brings Pac up to 19.6 million, 5 million above Oscar De La Hoya. Keep in mind that PPV buys are
households not individuals and many fans have friends over to share the cost of the PPV. (I watched Pac-Floyd with about 15 people at my buddy's apartment, Pac-Oscar with about 12, Pac-Cotto with about 10, etc. Mexican-Americans usually have a party built around their PPVs.)
Pacquiao drew
50,994 into Cowboy Stadium vs Clottey & 41,734 vs Margarito.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AT%26T_Stadium#Boxing
The Clottey fight crowd was DOUBLE Duran's best live attendance in the US, which was 25,038 for the "No Mas" fight in the Louisiana Superdome (where Ali-Spinks drew 65,000 in 1978).
http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/Rober ... d_meeting)
A crowd of 25,038 at the Superdome produced a gate of $3 million.
