BOWE AT HIS BEST..............

[overhand_right]

He's a troll.

He does seem like a troll. I notice he doesn't answer questions, and responds to your answers by just piling on more and more questions.

That being said, if that 1946 is the year of his birth he might honestly just have alzheimer's. He sounds confused by everything.

[Syntax Error]

I'm still convinced that if Bowe weren't with Rock Newman, his career would have been much better.

Agreed.

I don't think Bowe was scared of Lewis, but Rock Newman was.

Bowe was his cash cow and he saw $ signs and heard the sound 'kerching' every he looked at Bowe, so he rinsed Riddick rather than risk throwing him against Lewis.

It's a shame they didn't fight in '93 and I believe if they did, he would have won too because Lewis wasn't fully developed and still reckless and Right hand happy.

[overhand_right]

Me too. Bowe would have exposed Lewis's lack of development in the pros and bashed him up, the same way he did JL Gonzalez.

I agree Newman made a mess of his career, however, I don't think ANY manager would have put their new champion straight in with Lewis for his first defence.

[clubberlang]

One thing that was completely overlooked in Bowe vs Golota 2 (because we were ignorant of Golota’s failings at the time) is that just prior to AG been disqualified he was hurt by Bowe, if you ask me Golota getting disqualified was his way of quitting that night.

[Onetimeonly]

I think with hindsight, it is pretty clear that is what happened, though it's funny how it didn't seem like it at the time. But, Evander went to war with you, I suspect he shortened a few careers with his pace and ferocity in there.

I think the thing about Bowe is, he was a mercurial personality to begin with. I mean, this is a guy who joined the marine corp after becoming a hugely successful fighter, who in their right mind does that?? Obviously, it didn't work out, not that you needed to be clairvoyant to see that coming...

I think he was destined to have a short prime, Holyfield in his life or not.

[overhand_right]

One thing that was completely overlooked in Bowe vs Golota 2 (because we were ignorant of Golota’s failings at the time) is that just prior to AG been disqualified he was hurt by Bowe, if you ask me Golota getting disqualified was his way of quitting that night.

Golota quit both times versus Bowe.

[Cojimar 1946]

Did Lewis overcome them again and again? After McCall knocked him out, it took him years to get a title shot again.

It took till he was 34 and Holyfield 37 to unify the belts! Bowe had already eaten himself out of boxing by then but his fights with Holyfield looked hugely impressive after Lewis's two dreary contests.

Lewis didn't fight Tyson till Tyson was 36! Tyson had been avoiding the best fighters since Holyfield crushed him twice. When Holyfield KOd Tyson in 96, Bowe's KO of Holyfield a year earlier looked mightily impressive. It still does.

Bowe's best wins are Evander Holyfield, Tony Tubbs, and Andrew Golota. By contrast Lewis holds wins over Donovan Ruddock, Tony Tucker, Frank Bruno, Ray Mercer, Oliver McCall, Henry Akinwande, Andrew Golota, Evander Holyfield, David Tua, Hasim Rahman, Mike Tyson, and Vitali Klitschko. That's a vastly deeper resume than Bowe which is one reason he rates far ahead of him. He beat roughly 4x as many top contenders as Bowe did.

[Ambling Alp II]

He rates above Bowe, but not far above Bowe. He simply was on top for a longer period of time and so deserves to be higher. But it's closer than you think.

You should not just just say a win over a guy in the top 10 are all the same. They aren't. Bowe's wins over Holyfield vastly superior to anything Lewis ever did.

Akinwande was not any good. Bowe had wins not mentioned that are superior to that.
Tucker was past his best as well.
Beating Klitschko is not a big deal He never beat anyone very good.
Even beating McCall wasn't anything special. Nobody thought much of him until he beat Lewis. His next biggest wins is scratching out a close decision over an ancient Larry Holmes, and a tough fight with Bruce Seldon. (whom Bowe blew out in one round)

The wins over Holyfield and Tyson don't mean a lot. They were both way past it when Lewis beat them. The rematch "win" over Holyfield was not impressive and was a questionable decision.

The Mercer decision was iffy. He should not have got more than a draw in that fight.

You also have to look at the losses. Bowe's only loss was to a prime Evander Holyfield. He fought a very good fight and lost a close decision; probably could have got a draw. That should not be held against him.
Lewis lost to two weaker fighters. -Rahman and McCall (albiet it controversially.)

In summary, you have to look at the fights much more closely than you do. You have to take into consideration the stages of fighter's career as well as the stages of opponent's in their career .

You have to look at the losses- How close were they, who were they to? A close loss to a great fighter is not something you should hold against someone. A one-sided loss and/or a loss to an inferior fighter counts heavily against you.
Ultimately you should weight the importance of all the wins against all the losses draws, bad performances.

[Onetimeonly]

You can rate bows over Tyson, Lennox is a tier above them with holyfield. I think wander was the best of the era.

[overhand_right]

Riddick Bowe, besides his three Mega Epics with Evander Holyfield, which prove his greatness (and make Tyson and Lewis look bad by comparison) also collected the scalps of Smokin' Bert Cooper, Tyrell Biggs, Tony Tubbs, Pinklon Thomas, Bruce Seldon, Pierre Coetzer, Michael Dokes, Jesse Ferguson, Larry Donald, Herbie Hide, Jorge Luis Gonzalez and Andrew Golota twice. I wish he could have lived like an athlete like Holyfield or Lewis did; I wish he could have fought Lewis in his first defence because I think he would have crushed him; I wish he could have fought Tyson in 96 rather than Golota because he would have trained like a demon for Tyson and I think he would have squashed him. Bowe could have beaten everybody but he had two very difficult opponents: Rock Newman and Riddick Bowe. What he achieved given these handicaps is amazing really.

[BoxBuzz]

What was the explanation for Hide going down for the first time in the third round vs Bowe?

He seemingly never really recovered from whatever it was.

I've never seen anything that explains it. The camera angles I've seen don't explain it.

Anyone know anything about that moment?

[Syntax Error]

What was the explanation for Hide going down for the first time in the third round vs Bowe?

He seemingly never really recovered from whatever it was.

I've never seen anything that explains it. The camera angles I've seen don't explain it.

Anyone know anything about that moment?

That was curious to say the least.

It looked to me like Hide fainted.

[DrDuke]

That wasn't the only strange going down of Hide. He was put down by Vitali in a pretty awkward way too.

[BoxBuzz]

That was curious to say the least.

It looked to me like Hide fainted.

That would give an explanation to what can be seen. Wonder if he's ever been interviewed and answered that question.

[Ambling Alp II]

Watched it several times and it is odd. It looks like Bowe did hit him high on the back, (it doesn't look like the back of his head) and he sort of fell forward. What was especially weird was that he actually looked pretty hurt.

[oogiebe]

Watched it several times and it is odd. It looks like Bowe did hit him high on the back, (it doesn't look like the back of his head) and he sort of fell forward. What was especially weird was that he actually looked pretty hurt.

Maybe he got hit on the back of the neck around the shoulders...that can do some funny things to a man.

[Ambling Alp II]

That's what I thought might be the case at first or maybe the back of the head. However, I watched it several times and it looks lower than that. Not that is that important, but the knockdown should not have counted.

[Seamus]

People remember all the fouls by Golota which obviously weakened Bowe, but even before they started, Bowe was being dominated. Golota floored him in the 2nd rd of the 2nd fight before there had been a single foul and Bowe was hurt bad. He showed alot of grit in that fight though.

[oogiebe]

People remember all the fouls by Golota which obviously weakened Bowe, but even before they started, Bowe was being dominated. Golota floored him in the 2nd rd of the 2nd fight before there had been a single foul and Bowe was hurt bad. He showed alot of grit in that fight though.

I haven't watched in years, but I do recall that the Foul Pole was beating Bowe up pretty good.

[Onetimeonly]

That was curious to say the least.

It looked to me like Hide fainted.

My friend and I watching the fight were cracking up and saying goes had ether on his gloves.

[Cojimar 1946]

He rates above Bowe, but not far above Bowe. He simply was on top for a longer period of time and so deserves to be higher. But it's closer than you think.

You should not just just say a win over a guy in the top 10 are all the same. They aren't. Bowe's wins over Holyfield vastly superior to anything Lewis ever did.

Akinwande was not any good. Bowe had wins not mentioned that are superior to that.
Tucker was past his best as well.
Beating Klitschko is not a big deal He never beat anyone very good.
Even beating McCall wasn't anything special. Nobody thought much of him until he beat Lewis. His next biggest wins is scratching out a close decision over an ancient Larry Holmes, and a tough fight with Bruce Seldon. (whom Bowe blew out in one round)

The wins over Holyfield and Tyson don't mean a lot. They were both way past it when Lewis beat them. The rematch "win" over Holyfield was not impressive and was a questionable decision.

The Mercer decision was iffy. He should not have got more than a draw in that fight.

You also have to look at the losses. Bowe's only loss was to a prime Evander Holyfield. He fought a very good fight and lost a close decision; probably could have got a draw. That should not be held against him.
Lewis lost to two weaker fighters. -Rahman and McCall (albiet it controversially.)

In summary, you have to look at the fights much more closely than you do. You have to take into consideration the stages of fighter's career as well as the stages of opponent's in their career .

You have to look at the losses- How close were they, who were they to? A close loss to a great fighter is not something you should hold against someone. A one-sided loss and/or a loss to an inferior fighter counts heavily against you.
Ultimately you should weight the importance of all the wins against all the losses draws, bad performances.

In rating someone you have to take the good with the bad and the Golota fights while not technically losses don't reflect well at all on Bowe and raise questions as to how Bowe deals with different styles. The theory that we should throw them out because Bowe was shot by that point doesn't seem very plausible.

[Ambling Alp II]

I never said that Bowe was shot when he fought Golota or that we should throw out the Golota fights.

[Cojimar 1946]

I never said that Bowe was shot when he fought Golota or that we should throw out the Golota fights.

Another thing I find odd is that people are often bringing up the competition argument when it suits them and then disregarding it at other times. Most people today don't rate anyone Joe Louis beat in their top 10 and many don't have anyone he beat in their top 15. Yet so far I haven't seen anyone, even Onetimeonly argue Bowe should rate ahead of Joe Louis despite beating better opponents. I also don't see any of Marciano's victims in anyone's top 15 aside from a far-past it Louis.

[overhand_right]

Another thing I find odd is that people are often bringing up the competition argument when it suits them and then disregarding it at other times. Most people today don't rate anyone Joe Louis beat in their top 10 and many don't have anyone he beat in their top 15. Yet so far I haven't seen anyone, even Onetimeonly argue Bowe should rate ahead of Joe Louis despite beating better opponents. I also don't see any of Marciano's victims in anyone's top 15 aside from a far-past it Louis.

This from the man who picks Henry Akinwande, who beat nobody, over Riddick Bowe, who beat prime Holyfield twice, nearly thrice, who is in literally everyone's all-time top 10.

But go on, tell me about people bringing up competition arguments when it suits them.

[Cojimar 1946]

This from the man who picks Henry Akinwande, who beat nobody, over Riddick Bowe, who beat prime Holyfield twice, nearly thrice, who is in literally everyone's all-time top 10.

But go on, tell me about people bringing up competition arguments when it suits them.

So who did Joe Louis beat who was as good as Holyfield? Because as best I can tell he doesn't have any comparable wins and neither do Jack Johnson, Larry Holmes, Rocky Marciano and many others.