Whyte says Joshua lost because he wasn't taking his drugs

[Enlightened-One]

I would like to know which boxers have TUE's. As we all know pretty much all British cyclists have asthma.

People have tried to use the freedom of information act but to no avail

Joshua could have been diagnosed with asthma and low testosterone levels for all we know.

Until we can see what TUE's are in place there's no point talking about drugs and drug testing. As there is a system in place to allow legalized cheating.

What on earth has the ‘Freedom of Information Act’ got to do with anything related to the medication being prescribed to an individual or any ailments they may suffer from? That’s private and confidential information!

Please provide some actual details of the alleged persons that tried to acquire information about TUE's requested by boxers and cyclists via the ‘Freedom of Information Act’?

I actually understand what the ‘Freedom of Information Act’ means, because I read about it and understand its scope and intended purpose.

Also, you can’t apply a “god-of-the-gaps” type approach, whereby:

• There is a gap in your understanding of AJ’s TUE’s
• Therefore, AJ must be performing legalised cheating

The general public doesn’t need to know about TUE’s. Only the professionally-trained medical professionals working for the anti-doping agencies and governing bodies, which are legally obliged protect sensitive information and ensure medical confidentiality, should be made aware of TUE’s.

[Enlightened-One]

Correct.

And the other programme he signs up to is a whereabouts programme which testing bodies can use. Therefore testing bodies only use this when a fighter is signed up. Also, a large part of its remit is to administer TUEs

Again I'm not pointing the finger but Joshua has at least 6 months per year where he will not be subjected to testing.

The answer to all of this is year round testing both when in and out of competition. All existing methods are fundamentally flawed.

Drug testing in the sport of boxing is fundamentally-flawed and no one is willing to fund all year-round tests.

This affects all boxers, not just Anthony Joshua.

And I know you’re not personally accusing AJ of being a cheat, but in the context of the topic of this thread, it’s important to highlight the fact that almost all fighters aren’t tested out-of-competition, with most of them not tested during training camp either.

I honestly don’t know the solution to this issue, because boxing is sport where the rules differ per geographical region and per governing body/regulator.

Unfortunately, for many people that frequent this forum who choose to refrain from researching matters prior to formulating their personal opinions, they always seem to wrongly assume that certain fighters are cheating out-of-competition or they aren’t being tested at all, when they clearly possess no evidence to justify their unfairly slanderous stance.

I strongly suspect that AJ has actually been tested more frequently than most fighters competing today.

[Wa1nuts]

What on earth has the ‘Freedom of Information Act’ got to do with anything related to the medication being prescribed to an individual or any ailments they may suffer from? That’s private and confidential information!

Please provide some actual details of the alleged persons that tried to acquire information about TUE's requested by boxers and cyclists voa the ‘Freedom of Information Act’?

I actually understand what the ‘Freedom of Information Act’ means, because I read about it and understand its scope and intended purpose.

Also, you can’t apply a “god-of-the-gaps” type approach, whereby:

• There is a gap in your understanding of AJ’s TUE’s
• Therefore, AJ must be performing legalised cheating

The general public doesn’t need to know about TUE’s. Only the professionally-trained medical professionals working for the anti-doping agencies and governing bodies, which are legally obliged protect sensitive information and ensure medical confidentiality, should be made aware of TUE’s.

I think what hes getting at, if a fighter, Aj or anybody else gets a doctor to say hes got low levels of testosterone, he is then allowed to inject synthetic tesosterone (the main hormone used in anabolic steroids). The low testosterone could be caused from using synthetic testosterone in the past, causing his own body to stop producing the correct amount of tesotserone

Therefore with some fighters being allowed to inject testosterone and others not, they have an advantage an what is the point in testing fighters at all?

It would be interesting to know how much athletes with low test are prescribed, I think the average amount a male produces is 50mg / week, however test to be injected usually comes in 250mg / ml with a long acting ester (over 1 week half life). So I doubt anybody thats allowed to inject under TUE then has normal amounts. Plus im pretty sure the amount a male can produce can vary massively, I havent looked in to this type of thing in years so I could be wrong but it would be interesting to know more on TUE

You seem very defensive over Aj. His physique for somebody that does a lot of cardio for his boxing training is ridiculous. There are natural bodybuilders that dedicate their lives to it and have nowhere near the size of Joshua, if you asked them to then do cardio several times a day theyd be a lot smaller. To me Id think hes taken gear in the past or present. If not then hes a freak of genetics an the amount of muscle he gained since the olympics goes against science plus then theres the distented gut etc. But people dont want to hear that

I think when an athlete gets to that level theyre always taking something, it might just be that what theyre taking hasnt been banned yet or that theyre using a masking agent that hasnt been found yet or that theres some corruption going on. Theres a documentary called bigger faster stringer Id recommend, it will be outdated now, but its still a good watch

Anyways Aj lost because Ruiz was better than him on the night, no excuses needed

[lazboy]

Who’s seen the documentary Icarus. Ped use is rampant. It’s more likely than not that top pros, with money, at some stage in their careers have used. Especially given there are pronounced periods where they are not being tested.

Ps, I appreciate this abstract concept may be too difficult for a particular poster.

[Thomastearns]

I would like to know which boxers have TUE's. As we all know pretty much all British cyclists have asthma.

People have tried to use the freedom of information act but to no avail

Joshua could have been diagnosed with asthma and low testosterone levels for all we know.

Until we can see what TUE's are in place there's no point talking about drugs and drug testing. As there is a system in place to allow legalized cheating.

Absolutely.

Medical ethics and rights to privacy have little validity when there's millions of £/$ at stake.

The entire course of many lifetimes is influenced by the outcomes of sporting results - not to mention individual health and wellbeing.

The sheer number of famous names revealed to be using TUE's by the Fancy Bears hack of 2016 was eye opening. How many more are there?

This is an infection that can easily be wiped out by more openness. The fans can then make up their own minds. Until then unsavoury rumours will not go away.

By the way, when is Jarrell Miller coming back??

[Enlightened-One]

I think what hes getting at, if a fighter, Aj or anybody else gets a doctor to say hes got low levels of testosterone, he is then allowed to inject synthetic tesosterone (the main hormone used in anabolic steroids). The low testosterone could be caused from using synthetic testosterone in the past, causing his own body to stop producing the correct amount of tesotserone

Therefore with some fighters being allowed to inject testosterone and others not, they have an advantage an what is the point in testing fighters at all?

It would be interesting to know how much athletes with low test are prescribed, I think the average amount a male produces is 50mg / week, however test to be injected usually comes in 250mg / ml with a long acting ester (over 1 week half life). So I doubt anybody thats allowed to inject under TUE then has normal amounts. Plus im pretty sure the amount a male can produce can vary massively, I havent looked in to this type of thing in years so I could be wrong but it would be interesting to know more on TUE

You seem very defensive over Aj. His physique for somebody that does a lot of cardio for his boxing training is ridiculous. There are natural bodybuilders that dedicate their lives to it and have nowhere near the size of Joshua, if you asked them to then do cardio several times a day theyd be a lot smaller. To me Id think hes taken gear in the past or present. If not then hes a freak of genetics an the amount of muscle he gained since the olympics goes against science plus then theres the distented gut etc. But people dont want to hear that

I think when an athlete gets to that level theyre always taking something, it might just be that what theyre taking hasnt been banned yet or that theyre using a masking agent that hasnt been found yet or that theres some corruption going on. Theres a documentary called bigger faster stringer Id recommend, it will be outdated now, but its still a good watch

Anyways Aj lost because Ruiz was better than him on the night, no excuses needed

I’m not sure if it’s as simple as that. I suspect the various anti-doping agencies and sports’ governing bodies won’t simply take a doctor’s word for the medical justification for the medication being prescribed to a fighter. They’ll very likely also have to provide test results.

And I do believe you’re right. I have no doubt that some athlete take PED’s that can’t be detected or consume substances that aren’t included in the prohibited list.

For the record, I am not defensive over AJ, but I do find it rather exasperating to see forum members spending more time typing posts alleging that Anthony Joshua is a drug cheat, when it would have actually been far quicker to fact-check the validity of their claims.

It’s as if people enjoy barking random completely unfounded accusations, as if they’ve got some weird form of keyboard Tourette’s Symdrome.

Put it this way, people seriously claimed that one of the reasons for AJ losing his bout to Andy Ruiz Jr. was because he was being tested by VADA for the very first time, when this clearly isn’t the case. Anthony Joshua has undergone VADA testing since 2017 for all of his world title fights. The VADA website even says so.

I’m a fan of the truth. And even though I was delighted about Andy Ruiz Jr. defeating AJ (there are a load of posts of mine lavishing praise on the Mexican), I’d be a complete lunatic if I denied real-world facts by pretending that Anthony Joshua does his upmost to avoid PED testing, when this is clearly untrue. It only takes a few seconds to verify this.

Even if I really hated a fighter, I won’t lie and make a claim that is blatantly wrong! Would you? Others might, but I won’t.

Anyway, I believe that all human beings deserve to have their sensitive personal medical information to remain private and confidential. This information should not be easily accessible via the public domain, regardless of anyone’s profession.

[Ilya Muromets]

"Whatever it was, he looked very very different, right from the start when he was just standing there hanging on the ropes playing with his mouthguard in his mouth, he looked pathetic, like he was lost in the woods. "




Look at Joshua's facial expression after he was knocked down. He looked scared, and he looked like that for the rest of the fight too.

[Wa1nuts]

I’m not sure if it’s as simple as that. I suspect the various anti-doping agencies and sports’ governing bodies won’t simply take a doctor’s word for the medical justification for the medication being prescribed to a fighter. They’ll very likely also have to provide test results.

And I do believe you’re right. I have no doubt that some athlete take PED’s that can’t be detected or consume substances that aren’t included in the prohibited list.

For the record, I am not defensive over AJ, but I do find it rather exasperating to see forum members spending more time typing posts alleging that Anthony Joshua is a drug cheat, when it would have actually been far quicker to fact-check the validity of their claims.

It’s as if people enjoy barking random completely unfounded accusations, as if they’ve got some weird form of keyboard Tourette’s Symdrome.

Put it this way, people seriously claimed that one of the reasons for AJ losing his bout to Andy Ruiz Jr. was because he was being tested by VADA for the very first time, when this clearly isn’t the case. Anthony Joshua has undergone VADA testing since 2017 for all of his world title fights. The VADA website even says so.

I’m a fan of the truth. And even though I was delighted about Andy Ruiz Jr. defeating AJ (there are a load of posts of mine lavishing praise on the Mexican), I’d be a complete lunatic if I denied real-world facts by pretending that Anthony Joshua does his upmost to avoid PED testing, when this is clearly untrue. It only takes a few seconds to verify this.

Even if I really hated a fighter, I won’t lie and make a claim that is blatantly wrong! Would you? Others might, but I won’t.

Anyway, I believe that all human beings deserve to have their sensitive personal medical information to remain private and confidential. This information should not be easily accessible via the public domain, regardless of anyone’s profession.

Yeah Id to like to know more about TUE. I didn't even know it existed until this fight. Id be interested how they regulated it

[ewenhay]

"Whatever it was, he looked very very different, right from the start when he was just standing there hanging on the ropes playing with his mouthguard in his mouth, he looked pathetic, like he was lost in the woods. "




Look at Joshua's facial expression after he was knocked down. He looked scared, and he looked like that for the rest of the fight too.

I think that scared look is anxiety and fear of losing.

I think Joshua was starting to feel the pressure of being champion. Sometimes it's easier psychologicallly to strive for something you don't have than hold on to something you don't want to lose.

[Ilya Muromets]

I’m not sure if it’s as simple as that. I suspect the various anti-doping agencies and sports’ governing bodies won’t simply take a doctor’s word for the medical justification for the medication being prescribed to a fighter. They’ll very likely also have to provide test results.

And I do believe you’re right. I have no doubt that some athlete take PED’s that can’t be detected or consume substances that aren’t included in the prohibited list.

For the record, I am not defensive over AJ, but I do find it rather exasperating to see forum members spending more time typing posts alleging that Anthony Joshua is a drug cheat, when it would have actually been far quicker to fact-check the validity of their claims.

It’s as if people enjoy barking random completely unfounded accusations, as if they’ve got some weird form of keyboard Tourette’s Symdrome.

Put it this way, people seriously claimed that one of the reasons for AJ losing his bout to Andy Ruiz Jr. was because he was being tested by VADA for the very first time, when this clearly isn’t the case. Anthony Joshua has undergone VADA testing since 2017 for all of his world title fights. The VADA website even says so.

I’m a fan of the truth. And even though I was delighted about Andy Ruiz Jr. defeating AJ (there are a load of posts of mine lavishing praise on the Mexican), I’d be a complete lunatic if I denied real-world facts by pretending that Anthony Joshua does his upmost to avoid PED testing, when this is clearly untrue. It only takes a few seconds to verify this.

Even if I really hated a fighter, I won’t lie and make a claim that is blatantly wrong! Would you? Others might, but I won’t.

Anyway, I believe that all human beings deserve to have their sensitive personal medical information to remain private and confidential. This information should not be easily accessible via the public domain, regardless of anyone’s profession.

No it's not far quicker and easier to fact check validity of claims because they don't leave a paper trail, and certainly not a paper trail on their politically corrected internet search engines.

That's just it too, get a compliant doctor (a dime a dozen) to say you have some illness requiring some performance enhancing drugs and it is then all confidential by law.

Those confidentiality laws they passed cover up all sorts of mischief. Most if not all of the US school shooters - I believe it's all - are on hard psychoactive narcotics like Ritalin that cause suicidal and homicidal thoughts, but they have passed laws making that info top secret. 10% of USA school children are on those drugs for imaginary diseases they've invented like ADD that exist nowhere else in the world and never were known here until the drug pushing doctors and pharma companies and invented them a couple of decades ago. Most of those children are boys, meaning almost 20% of US schoolboys are now government-mandated psycho-junkies.

The drug testing process in boxing is also thoroughly unfairly administered and corrupted. The fact that it's run out of Mafia Vegas of all places tells a lot in and of itself!

I don't know the real story on Joshua, but I have been cynical of the drug and drug testing business in boxing and other sports for a long time. I'd rather they legalize drugs than keep doing what they're doing - but then that would interfere with the huge profits a lot of very powerful outfits - like the Mexican drug cartels and the US government - are making with their BS "war on drugs".

[candyslim]

Whyte says a lot of things !

Is the correcr answer. I think Dill is great but his mouth doesn't half generate some shite. He says whatever he feels like and frequently contradicts himself according to his mood. Now who does that remind you of? (clue: he's not really royalty and he's had run-ins with UKAD)

[Jeff_lacy_ko]

I believe in ocams razor

Ruiz gave joshua a concussion hence the bizarre behavior

[oogiebe]

I believe in ocams razor

Ruiz gave joshua a concussion hence the bizarre behavior

Perfect.

[Ilya Muromets]

I believe in ocams razor

Ruiz gave joshua a concussion hence the bizarre behavior

He didn't look concussed, glassy eyed, unfocussed, confused, disoriented, sick etc., nor did his corner or the ring doctor think there was a problem requiring medical attention.

[Jeff_lacy_ko]

He was repeating questions, not responding to referee directions and missed the after fight press conference because he was in concussion protocol. His promoter even said he had a concussion

Id say overwhelming evidence thats what happened

But if you want to believe something else evidence wont matter so believe what you want

[Ilya Muromets]

He was repeating questions, not responding to referee directions and missed the after fight press conference because he was in concussion protocol. His promoter even said he had a concussion

Id say overwhelming evidence thats what happened

But if you want to believe something else evidence wont matter so believe what you want

Then he should have been put on a gurney and rushed to a hospital.

[SenorPipino]

Hearn isn't a doctor.

He had no idea whether Joshua was concussed or not.

I doubt he personally performed any evaluation or scans.

[candyslim]

I believe in ocams razor

Ruiz gave joshua a concussion hence the bizarre behavior

Is that the basic type with only the one blade ?

You may be right but there was something very odd about Joshua's manner/behaviour before the first bell, long before Ruiz got the chance to separate him from his senses. I don't pretend to have a clue what was wrong but something clearly was

[lazboy]

Is that the basic type with only the one blade ?

You may be right but there was something very odd about Joshua's manner/behaviour before the first bell, long before Ruiz got the chance to separate him from his senses. I don't pretend to have a clue what was wrong but something clearly was

I don't think anything was CLEARLY wrong. There was something off but not clearly so. It could be as simple as Joshua expected an easy night, Joshua wasn't motivated by the opponent in front of him, Joshua was distracted by his multiple millions and silk sheets.

[ewenhay]

I don't think anything was CLEARLY wrong. There was something off but not clearly so. It could be as simple as Joshua expected an easy night, Joshua wasn't motivated by the opponent in front of him, Joshua was distracted by his multiple millions and silk sheets.

Neither do I. According to some on here Joshua won rounds 1,2,4 and 5 and was "seconds away" from stopping Ruiz in round 3.

So how could something be so badly wrong if that was the case?

[lazboy]

Neither do I. According to some on here Joshua won rounds 1,2,4 and 5 and was "seconds away" from stopping Ruiz in round 3.

So how could something be so badly wrong if that was the case?

Exactly. Not that I agree exactly with what others are saying however he was performing. From my perspective this is an attitude thing although I’m not a doctor or psychologist so.....maybe wilder put something in his drink bottle for all I know.

[candyslim]

I don't think anything was CLEARLY wrong. There was something off but not clearly so. It could be as simple as Joshua expected an easy night, Joshua wasn't motivated by the opponent in front of him, Joshua was distracted by his multiple millions and silk sheets.

Well that could well be what was wrong. It doesn't have to be something physical but Joshua very definitely wasn't what we have come to expect from him. That looked pretty clear to me.

[Onetimeonly]

He looked good until he got careless trying to make an emphatic statement and got caught with a shot he never recovered from.

[Counter-puncher]

Is that the basic type with only the one blade ?

You may be right but there was something very odd about Joshua's manner/behaviour before the first bell, long before Ruiz got the chance to separate him from his senses. I don't pretend to have a clue what was wrong but something clearly was

it's so clear, you can't say what it is.

the kind of 'clarity' I have come to expect from you.

[Onetimeonly]

it's so clear, you can't say what it is.

the kind of 'clarity' I have come to expect from you.

somehow wilder was involved!