SenorPipino wrote: ↑05 Sep 2018, 16:58
Clottey and Margarito were big guys, especially compared to the smallish Pacquiao.
And they both had great chins.
Pacquiao being unable to take them out really had nothing to do with a decline in skills. Welters and super welters with tough beards simply weren't going to budge versus Pacquiao.
And hell. Pacquiao didn't take ANYBODY out for nearly 9 years until he feasted on Matthysse.
He had a tough time destroying 147 pounders. When he found himself banging on bigger bodies, knockouts became the exception, not the rule.
The Margarito fight was for a vacant title against a former welterweight. Just an easy easy of becoming an Octuple champion.
And do you remember the size of that guy compared to Pacquiao? Margarito looked like a light heavyweight even though he was only 150.
Pacquiao did great to actually wobble him in the 10th round.
It was a lopsided fight, but I don't think it was as easy on Pacquiao as it appeared.
Margarito was very physical and strong. Pacquiao would later admit that he took a body shot in about the 6th round and didn't know if he would survive.
chrisjs1985 wrote: ↑05 Sep 2018, 18:45
It was probably around 2010/2011 perhaps not one specific fight. I think he had started to get bored with the sport/had many other responsibilities which had started to catch up. I felt he didn't have his edge in Marquez III and was taken to school and that served as something of a wake-up because he seemed to have that edge back to him in fight IV and looked very good pre-KO. He beat Bradley in fight I with something to spare too and was robbed but IMO looked somewhat disinterested in that one.
Physically the Marquez KO was the tip of the iceberg.
Have to agree here. Maybe mentally aswell that controversial loss to Bradley got to him..
Like you said he was doing well up until the KO. Didn’t he drop JMM in the IV’th fight too.
Yes, he did. It was more of a flash knockdown though. His foot appeared to be on Marquez' but he did hurt Marquez more than the previous two fights in the fifth round. Marquez did well to weather that and be calm in the sixth round.
drunkenpiper36 wrote: ↑28 Nov 2018, 15:54
I voted after 2009. Of course he still had quite a bit left in the tank for years after that, but from 2008-2010 he seemed practically unstoppable.
Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑23 Apr 2019, 15:54
So he was still juicing until the Mayweather fight, then stopped so that he could get a big pay day?
Regardless, he had been past it for years by the time they fought.
I'm guessing he stopped around Marquez 3. Probably started after Erik beat him. One things for sure if you want a picture of a primed juiced fighter look no further than PAC vs cotto. Epo personified.
He's not a patch on the old Pacquaio and can't go all night like then but his Boxing IQ had gotten pretty damn good and he uses his experience well. I think he was way passed his best after Marquez KO'd him. You don't recover from that. However, he's dominated Bradley twice, Algieri, Rios, Vargas, Horn (he won easily), Mattheyse, Broner and Thurman. Maybe nothing individually jumps out as special but collectively and the fashion is good. The Thurman fight being excellent as an achievement. He was clean vs. Floyd whereas I'm almost certain Floyd wasn't (IV gate) so I don't really hold that fight in any regard as they were both passed it anyway and the playing field wasn't level.
I've never been a fan of Pacquaio but to me he's unquestionably the most accomplished boxer of the last 20 years. Perhaps Floyd's more skilled or whatever and I felt Marquez never lost to him, but his overall career has few equals especially in the modern era.
chrisjs1985 wrote: ↑25 Jul 2019, 13:44
He's not a patch on the old Pacquaio and can't go all night like then but his Boxing IQ had gotten pretty damn good and he uses his experience well. I think he was way passed his best after Marquez KO'd him. You don't recover from that. However, he's dominated Bradley twice, Algieri, Rios, Vargas, Horn (he won easily), Mattheyse, Broner and Thurman. Maybe nothing individually jumps out as special but collectively and the fashion is good. The Thurman fight being excellent as an achievement. He was clean vs. Floyd whereas I'm almost certain Floyd wasn't (IV gate) so I don't really hold that fight in any regard as they were both passed it anyway and the playing field wasn't level.
I've never been a fan of Pacquaio but to me he's unquestionably the most accomplished boxer of the last 20 years. Perhaps Floyd's more skilled or whatever and I felt Marquez never lost to him, but his overall career has few equals especially in the modern era.
I think Pac-Man's score with Juan Manuel Marquez is 2-2. I think that Manny won clearly the first two fights.
