Where Do You Rank Sugar Ray Leonard in the Pound per Pound All Time List?

[oogiebe]

I never thought of Tunney as top 5 or even 10. Maybe not even top 20 P4P. He didn't do anything remarkably. He did a lot of things really well. A terrific boxer/puncher who caught Dempsey at the right time. Had he fought a few more title defenses after the rematch his stock may have gone up. Beating Greb 4(?) times certainly helps him, but Harry was a smaller fighter who had beaten Tunney once.

Tunney was 3-1-1 against green if I recall correctly. One being a derided decision for gene. As much as a cock as klompton is, he knows that inside out. If you see the "officious little prick" about, ask him. Bonus points for knowing the literary reference in quotations.

Sounds right. LOL on the 'descriptor.'

[Onetimeonly]

Tunney was 3-1-1 against green if I recall correctly. One being a derided decision for gene. As much as a cock as klompton is, he knows that inside out. If you see the "officious little prick" about, ask him. Bonus points for knowing the literary reference in quotations.

Sounds right. LOL on the 'descriptor.'

You know the book? Hint, worst movie adaption from a book ever.

[oogiebe]

Sounds right. LOL on the 'descriptor.'

You know the book? Hint, worst movie adaption from a book ever.

The Shining.

[Onetimeonly]

You know the book? Hint, worst movie adaption from a book ever.

The Shining.

[oogiebe]

The Shining.

BTW, while movie's are rarely as good or better than the book, I like this one.

[Onetimeonly]

BTW, while movie's are rarely as good or better than the book, I like this one.

The worst. Terrible casting, Wendy is actually supposed to be a sympathetic character. Nothing good to say about that one. Jack was awful.

[oogiebe]

BTW, while movie's are rarely as good or better than the book, I like this one.

The worst. Terrible casting, Wendy is actually supposed to be a sympathetic character. Nothing good to say about that one. Jack was awful.

LOL! I didn't say it followed the book's characters so much. I had the same feelings about The Godfather. If you had read that before seeing the movie, you might have been scratching you head at the casting as well. Books can always delve deeper into characters, as you know.

[Tony1244]

Why isn't Tunney ever listed in the top 5? His track record is quite excellent.

I never thought of Tunney as top 5 or even 10. Maybe not even top 20 P4P. He didn't do anything remarkably. He did a lot of things really well. A terrific boxer/puncher who caught Dempsey at the right time. Had he fought a few more title defenses after the rematch his stock may have gone up. Beating Greb 4(?) times certainly helps him, but Harry was a smaller fighter who had beaten Tunney once.

I scratch my head when I see Dempsey on so many P4P lists, while Tunney is nowhere to be found. I rate Tunney as a top 10 HW of all time, if era and size are taken into account.

My lists, like most people's lists on sports or music fluctuate, but Tunney being #10 or #20 P4P is reasonable. Agreed, top 5 is a bit high.

[Onetimeonly]

The worst. Terrible casting, Wendy is actually supposed to be a sympathetic character. Nothing good to say about that one. Jack was awful.

LOL! I didn't say it followed the book's characters so much. I had the same feelings about The Godfather. If you had read that before seeing the movie, you might have been scratching you head at the casting as well. Books can always delve deeper into characters, as you know.

Yeah, but that's a great movie too. This one is trash.

[Onetimeonly]

I never thought of Tunney as top 5 or even 10. Maybe not even top 20 P4P. He didn't do anything remarkably. He did a lot of things really well. A terrific boxer/puncher who caught Dempsey at the right time. Had he fought a few more title defenses after the rematch his stock may have gone up. Beating Greb 4(?) times certainly helps him, but Harry was a smaller fighter who had beaten Tunney once.

I scratch my head when I see Dempsey on so many P4P lists, while Tunney is nowhere to be found. I rate Tunney as a top 10 HW of all time, if era and size are taken into account.

My lists, like most people's lists on sports or music fluctuate, but Tunney being #10 or #20 P4P is reasonable. Agreed, top 5 is a bit high.

I don't have Dempsey top 10 at heavy so Tunney isn't close for me. Jack could sneak into a top 100 all-time but I doubt it.

[oogiebe]

LOL! I didn't say it followed the book's characters so much. I had the same feelings about The Godfather. If you had read that before seeing the movie, you might have been scratching you head at the casting as well. Books can always delve deeper into characters, as you know.

Yeah, but that's a great movie too. This one is trash.

Sounds like you really love the novel, regardless of the movie.

[Tony1244]

I scratch my head when I see Dempsey on so many P4P lists, while Tunney is nowhere to be found. I rate Tunney as a top 10 HW of all time, if era and size are taken into account.

My lists, like most people's lists on sports or music fluctuate, but Tunney being #10 or #20 P4P is reasonable. Agreed, top 5 is a bit high.

I don't have Dempsey top 10 at heavy so Tunney isn't close for me. Jack could sneak into a top 100 all-time but I doubt it.

I'm amazed by how many "experts" have had Dempsey top 10 even P4P. It's like saying Jackie Robinson is a top 10 BB player of all time. They are both significant characters in American history, but neither are top 10 material.

[gilgamesh]

He was certainly one of Boxing's biggest superstars. A lot of the time that stands out more in people's minds than talent. Especially to casual fans. The real true Pound for Pound geniuses of the sport often go unappreciated by the common folk, who just like brutality, and knockouts.

It's actually quite amazing how lucrative of a career Mayweather was able to have in the last few decades. Goes to show that the idea of P4P #1 has been driven into the psyche of Boxing fans hard, because without that I'm sure his fights wouldn't have been anywhere near the draw they were.

Leonard would be Top 15 if I hadn't already answered that earlier in the thread for the record.

[Onetimeonly]

Yeah, but that's a great movie too. This one is trash.

Sounds like you really love the novel, regardless of the movie.

The book was good, not great. I really hate the movie.

[Onetimeonly]

I don't have Dempsey top 10 at heavy so Tunney isn't close for me. Jack could sneak into a top 100 all-time but I doubt it.

I'm amazed by how many "experts" have had Dempsey top 10 even P4P. It's like saying Jackie Robinson is a top 10 BB player of all time. They are both significant characters in American history, but neither are top 10 material.

Indeed, he may be the most popular and influential fighter ever but his resume isn't close.

[ClivePatrickLyons]

Top 10 and going of your list elmersalsa about 7 id put The Greatest Fighter i seen in the last 40 year's.

[elmersalsa]

Say hey, Sugar Ray! Happy Birthday! He is 69 years old today. Keep it going, champ!

One of the best I have ever seen.

[Ambling Alp II]

Look at you, pretending that you like Leonard so it seems fair that you rank him so low. At least be honest that you don't like him. You once said that he wasn't a real fighter.

[elmersalsa]

Look at you, pretending that you like Leonard so it seems fair that you rank him so low. At least be honest that you don't like him. You once said that he wasn't a real fighter.

I love Sugar Ray Leonard before you ever liked him. What you're talking about?

To rank him at top ten it would be a blasphemy. Not fair . Why? Because there are much more deserving boxers that deserve to be ahead of him.

At #18, I think that is a fair ranking.

[Caractacus]

[Ambling Alp II]

Look at you, pretending that you like Leonard so it seems fair that you rank him so low. At least be honest that you don't like him. You once said that he wasn't a real fighter.

I love Sugar Ray Leonard before you ever liked him. What you're talking about?

To rank him at top ten it would be a blasphemy. Not fair . Why? Because there are much more deserving boxers that deserve to be ahead of him.

At #18, I think that is a fair ranking.

You love him before I ever like him? We are about the same age you know. I saw him in the Olympics too.
You said he was not a "real fighter". Obviously, you would not have said that if you liked him.

[Jeff_lacy_ko]

Leonard was the best fighter out of his era, and it was a hell of an era in those weight classes

I wouldnt confidently pick any fighter in history to beat him. Not that he was unbeatable, but i wouldn't confidently pick someone to beat him

[Ezzard]

I still don't think I've seen a boxer who looks as good on film as Leonard. Maybe Lomachenko.

[keithmoonhangover]

The wins over Benitez, Duran, Hearns and Hagler put him in my top ten.

[Ambling Alp II]

You hit the nail on the head. How many fighters have a better "victim's list is as good or better than that? There are less than 10. Robinson, Greb, Armstrong, Charles, Langford, and Ali. Thats it.

The main arguments against him usually are: His career was too short -To which I respond with, so what. He beat 4 great fighters in a relatively short time. Doesn't matter if another guy fought way longer if he didn't beat as good of competition.

The other one is that he didn't have enough fights. Again, so what? In boxing, you can always find an automatic win. Leonard could have padded his win total with wins over tomato cans that he could not possibly have lost to.
Sure, we could say that so and so won 70 or 80 fights. That would not make them better than Leonard if they didn't beat better fighters. Carnera won 89 fights and Ali won 56. Nobody thinks Carnera was better or even remotely close.

Robinson, Greb, Armstrong, Charles, Langford, Ali and Leonard are rock solid Top 10. There should be no debate about this. Which means that there are three other guys who could comprise the Top 10. Guys like Monzon, Moore, Louis, Duran, Pep, etc. Debating between those guys is much more interesting.