BoxRec Forum HW TOP 15 Ranking update - Whyte's doping case

[Pukka Cheese]

No change.

Wait for something official or 12month inactivity.

[Finkel]

Well the trouble with doing that is the damage to the reputation of the boxer, loss of earning through sponsorships disappearing is a likely outcome.

Imagine there was a public investigation into Joshua, and it turned out he was innocent.
Will the sponsors want to be attached to his name when many people would assume he is guilty?

Would his reputation ever be fully restored even if he was shown to be innocent?

I agree to a point. Did the failed testing affect Canelo, Tyson Fury or did rumors of peds hurt Mayweather or Pacquiao?

Yeah I can't really argue with that. The tainted meat argument seems like a winner really for Canelo. But the episode has probably hurt his legacy.

It probably did hurt Fury financially as well, but in the end he has still won out due to the ESPN contract which is no small part due to his recovery from depression and obesity story. Lack of sponsors, was probably more to do with his forthrite fundamentalist Christian views though.

Mayweather or Pacquiao: I'd still say those rumours result in people chatting shit on pretty much every comments section of their YouTube videos. But they are two figures that transcended the sport, and have armies of fans defending them to the hilt, so it's probably less damaging for them. But in 50 years will be people still be arguing, yeah they were great BUT...

Unfortunately I think you are right, something drastic needs to be done. Your examples just show how murky everything is in the sport.

[dagilechia]

for me it's like - you get caught, your rating gets re-started, you start from zero. Povetkin, Fury, Ortiz etc all had fights after their doping affairs.

If Whyte gets removed, he may well be voted in after his next fight, but i doubt that people would vote him as high as he was before.

Since Ortiz last tested positive (29/09/17), he's 4-1 with wins over Hammer, Kauffman, Martz and Cojanu yet, in January (prior to the Hammer fight) you voted him 5th...

His loss to Wilder is worth more than all the wins you mention combined

[dagilechia]

Since Ortiz last tested positive (29/09/17), he's 4-1 with wins over Hammer, Kauffman, Martz and Cojanu yet, in January (prior to the Hammer fight) you voted him 5th...

Not to mention Fury was suspended during his wilderness years. So, I'm not sure getting a draw with Wilder and beating 3 no hopers really justifies being ranked #1...

Anyway, to be blunt, Presumption of Innocence is not something I'm going to mess with. So, for me he stays until there is an official announcement from a legitimate governing body.

I personally think that he defeated Wilder and that is Why i rank him at #1

[Finkel]

Not to mention Fury was suspended during his wilderness years. So, I'm not sure getting a draw with Wilder and beating 3 no hopers really justifies being ranked #1...

Anyway, to be blunt, Presumption of Innocence is not something I'm going to mess with. So, for me he stays until there is an official announcement from a legitimate governing body.

I personally think that he defeated Wilder and that is Why i rank him at #1

I think so too, but...

Surely actually beating Joshua is a better achievement, than not actually doing so against Wilder. Given most people ranked Joshua higher than Wilder, shouldn't Ruiz be number #1 by your standard?

[dagilechia]

I personally think that he defeated Wilder and that is Why i rank him at #1

I think so too, but...

Surely actually beating Joshua is a better achievement, than not actually doing so against Wilder. Given most people ranked Joshua higher than Wilder, shouldn't Ruiz be number #1 by your standard?

who beat who is a one, very important factor.. next, at least for me, is who i think would beat who, and i can't imagine Ruiz defeating Fury, basing only on ''who beat who'' would be difficult because the top 15 fighters barely fight each other... rankings are always subjective, there are no perfect rankings.. If Ruiz beats Joshua again and proves his worth, i will reconsider voting him to #1 or #2

[Finkel]

I think so too, but...

Surely actually beating Joshua is a better achievement, than not actually doing so against Wilder. Given most people ranked Joshua higher than Wilder, shouldn't Ruiz be number #1 by your standard?

who beat who is a one, very important factor.. next, at least for me, is who i think would beat who, and i can't imagine Ruiz defeating Fury, basing only on ''who beat who'' would be difficult because the top 15 fighters barely fight each other... rankings are always subjective, there are no perfect rankings.. If Ruiz beats Joshua again and proves his worth, i will reconsider voting him to #1 or #2

That's fair enough, and that's how I would personally go about ranking fighters, but just to be clear that doesn't really align with what you wrote above when you were justfying the removal of Whyte when you said:

"for me it's like - you get caught, your rating gets re-started, you start from zero. Povetkin, Fury, Ortiz etc all had fights after their doping affairs."

[dagilechia]

who beat who is a one, very important factor.. next, at least for me, is who i think would beat who, and i can't imagine Ruiz defeating Fury, basing only on ''who beat who'' would be difficult because the top 15 fighters barely fight each other... rankings are always subjective, there are no perfect rankings.. If Ruiz beats Joshua again and proves his worth, i will reconsider voting him to #1 or #2

That's fair enough, and that's how I would personally go about ranking fighters, but just to be clear that doesn't really align with what you wrote above when you were justfying the removal of Whyte when you said:

"for me it's like - you get caught, your rating gets re-started, you start from zero. Povetkin, Fury, Ortiz etc all had fights after their doping affairs."

Why not? Fury defeated Wilder, Ruiz defeated Joshua, two similar level of wins in my eyes, the eye test suggest me that Fury that fought Wilder would defeat Ruiz that fought Joshua. Both Fury and Ruiz were close to lose by KO, Ruiz's win was more impressive cuz it was by KO, but styles make fights, for example, i think that Wilder is the most dangerous opponent for Fury, but i also think that he is beatable by some fighters that would be no match for Fury, sometimes it's like A beats B, B beats C, C beats A, it's hard to rank them if they barely fight each other.

For the record, i had Fury outside the top 15 in my personal ranking after his fight vs Seferi.

[Bandog]

That's fair enough, and that's how I would personally go about ranking fighters, but just to be clear that doesn't really align with what you wrote above when you were justfying the removal of Whyte when you said:

"for me it's like - you get caught, your rating gets re-started, you start from zero. Povetkin, Fury, Ortiz etc all had fights after their doping affairs."

Why not? Fury defeated Wilder, Ruiz defeated Joshua, two similar level of wins in my eyes, the eye test suggest me that Fury that fought Wilder would defeat Ruiz that fought Joshua. Both Fury and Ruiz were close to lose by KO, Ruiz's win was more impressive cuz it was by KO, but styles make fights, for example, i think that Wilder is the most dangerous opponent for Fury, but i also think that he is beatable by some fighters that would be no match for Fury, sometimes it's like A beats B, B beats C, C beats A, it's hard to rank them if they barely fight each other.

For the record, i had Fury outside the top 15 in my personal ranking after his fight vs Seferi.

Fury defeated Wilder? You could look at it as both were robbed of victories. Fury of a narrow points win and Wilder of a KO. A rematch is warranted. Ruiz was close to losing by KO? No. He was knocked down.

[dagilechia]

Why not? Fury defeated Wilder, Ruiz defeated Joshua, two similar level of wins in my eyes, the eye test suggest me that Fury that fought Wilder would defeat Ruiz that fought Joshua. Both Fury and Ruiz were close to lose by KO, Ruiz's win was more impressive cuz it was by KO, but styles make fights, for example, i think that Wilder is the most dangerous opponent for Fury, but i also think that he is beatable by some fighters that would be no match for Fury, sometimes it's like A beats B, B beats C, C beats A, it's hard to rank them if they barely fight each other.

For the record, i had Fury outside the top 15 in my personal ranking after his fight vs Seferi.

Fury defeated Wilder? You could look at it as both were robbed of victories. Fury of a narrow points win and Wilder of a KO. A rematch is warranted. Ruiz was close to losing by KO? No. He was knocked down.

Wilder didn't knocked Fury out. TF was ready clearly ready to fight before the 10 count.

[KiwiRider]

Fury defeated Wilder? You could look at it as both were robbed of victories. Fury of a narrow points win and Wilder of a KO. A rematch is warranted. Ruiz was close to losing by KO? No. He was knocked down.

Wilder didn't knocked Fury out. TF was ready clearly ready to fight before the 10 count.

Not only that- Fury finished the 12th really strong, which made it all the more impressive

[dagilechia]

The voting is over.

For now, Whyte stays in.

Current ranking:

1. Tyson Fury - 28(20) 0 1 - next fight: 14.09.2019 vs Otto Wallin - 20(13) 0 0 - (unranked, BoxRec's #46)

2. Deontay Wilder - 41(40) 0 1 - next fight: 09.11.2019 vs Luis Ortiz - 31(26) 1(1) 0 - (#7)

3. Andy Ruiz Jr - 33(22) 1(0) 0 - next fight: 07.12.2019 vs Anthony Joshua - 22(21) 1(1) 0 - (#4)

4. Anthony Joshua - 22(21) 1(1) 0 - next fight: 07.12.2019 vs Andy Ruiz Jr - 33(22) 1(0) 0 - (#3)

5. Dillian Whyte - 26(18) 1(1) 0 - next fight: TBA

6. Alexander Povetkin - 34(24) 2(1) 0 - next fight: 31.08.2019 vs Hughie Fury - 23(13) 2(0) 0 - (unranked, BoxRec's #21)

7. Luis Ortiz - 31(26) 1(1) 0 - next fight: 09.11.2019 vs Deontay Wilder - 41(40) 0 1 - (#2)

8. Kubrat Pulev - 27(14) 1(1) 0 - next fight: TBA

9. Joseph Parker - 26(20) 2(0) 0 - next fight: TBA

10. Óscar Rivas - 26(18) 1(0) 0 - next fight: TBA

11. Adam Kownacki - 20(15) 0 0 - next fight: TBA

12. Dereck Chisora - 31(22) 9(3) 0 - next fight: TBA

13. Filip Hrgović - 9(7) 0 0 - next fight: TBA

14. Agit Kabayel - 19(13) 0 0 - next fight: TBA

15. Dominic Breazeale - 20(18) 2(2) 0 - next fight: TBA

[greg]

Wilder didn't knocked Fury out. TF was ready clearly ready to fight before the 10 count.

Not only that- Fury finished the 12th really strong, which made it all the more impressive

..miracle no less ...wonder what the long-term effects of this blow and subsequent continuation might be for a mentally unstable undividual with a suicidal past..