BoxRec Forum HW TOP 15 Ranking update - Usyk vs Witherspoon

[margaret thatcher]

Don't agree with which part? What is so different about it happening at cruiser? In the ring they were both easily around 210 and they fought like they usually fight. Watch some of thaat fight and tell me what is so different about each of them? A domination of Hunter is far better than the likes of anything Hrgovic has done.

The problem with people saying he's done nothing is that he has actually dominated a guy who is on this list, as well as beaten guys who had successfull fights at HW. Not having him top 15 at all is IMO really weak.

[Lennox]

Easy to understand how ABC rankings get screwed up.

You got a great fighter who has dominated at cruiser not worthy of a ranking according to some.

You put Hunter in who he has beaten and Hunter gets in because he beat a top 40 heavyweight.

Hrgovic has done little.

Quite a worry really when you put peoples heads in charge.

[margaret thatcher]

Ya, I mean to me you gotta at least be able to explain why Hunter-Usyk happening at cruiserweight changed the dynamic between them so much that the fight is now totally irrelevant as consideration. To me you simply can't do that when looking at the fight---physically they look pretty much identical to how they do now, and are the same fighters. Sweating off a few pounds for the day before just renders all of it irrelevant?

And beating the tops cruisers is no joke even at HW. Look at what Breidis did to Charr for example.

I get why people wouldn't rank Usyk near the very top yet, but not even top 15??

[Onetimeonly]

Breidis, gassiev and dorticos are all top 15 in reality, IMO.obviously

[margaret thatcher]

To the guys who think Uzzy should be out, if he beat Artur Szpilka or Eric Molina next would that land him a spot? Would those mean more than dominating Hunter, for example.

[oogiebe]

If/when Usyk beats a top 25 HW and considering how he gets the job done, I'll gladly move him into the top 10 if warranted. Saying Hunter is the very same fighter that lost to him 2 1/2 years ago isn't fair either. Witherspoon said he wasn't hurt, but was dog tired. That fight did little in telling us what kind of HW Usyk will be. The rest is purely conjecture. Not sure what's so hard to understand. I don't rate Hrgovic that highly, by the way.

[oogiebe]

To the guys who think Uzzy should be out, if he beat Artur Szpilka or Eric Molina next would that land him a spot? Would those mean more than dominating Hunter, for example.

LOL! How many posts on your point are you going to make?

[margaret thatcher]

If/when Usyk beats a top 25 HW and considering how he gets the job done, I'll gladly move him into the top 10 if warranted. Saying Hunter is the very same fighter that lost to him 2 1/2 years ago isn't fair either. Witherspoon said he wasn't hurt, but was dog tired. That fight did little in telling us what kind of HW Usyk will be. The rest is purely conjecture. Not sure what's so hard to understand. I don't rate Hrgovic that highly, by the way.

He already beat a top 15 HW. There is a fighter ranked on this list whom he dominated.

[greg]

..boxers should rather be ranked on merit than on conjecture...top ten is max imo..

[oogiebe]

If/when Usyk beats a top 25 HW and considering how he gets the job done, I'll gladly move him into the top 10 if warranted. Saying Hunter is the very same fighter that lost to him 2 1/2 years ago isn't fair either. Witherspoon said he wasn't hurt, but was dog tired. That fight did little in telling us what kind of HW Usyk will be. The rest is purely conjecture. Not sure what's so hard to understand. I don't rate Hrgovic that highly, by the way.

He already beat a top 15 HW.

I read that the the first several times you posted that. that was 2 1/2 years ago and Hunter is a better fighter today then he was then. I didn't think Usyk looked great against Chazz. A 38 year old; fat; inactive top 100 fighter who quit on his stool (he was gassed) and was never really hurt.

[margaret thatcher]

Ha, can you imagine being asked to analyze a Hunter-Usyk rematch, and then being told anything that happened in the first fight is totally irrelevant and not allowed to be considered

[oogiebe]

Ha, can you imagine being asked to analyze a Hunter-Usyk rematch, and then being told anything that happened in the first fight is totally irrelevant and not allowed to be considered

Why? Who said that? Much has happened since then. Hunter is comfortably at HW now. I already said Usyk would probably beat most of the top 15 guys. I want him to earn the ranking. If that's funny, then you are an easy audience.

[margaret thatcher]

He already beat a top 15 HW.

I read that the the first several times you posted that. that was 2 1/2 years ago and Hunter is a better fighter today then he was then. I didn't think Usyk looked great against Chazz. A 38 year old; fat; inactive top 100 fighter who quit on his stool (he was gassed) and was never really hurt.

You previously said Usyk did everything he was supposed to do and you couldn't deduce anything from it. You're sounding a little more negative now?

I repeat it because it's just silly to me to act like Hunter-Usyk doesn't count because they sweat off a few more pounds. That is weight class extrimism. They phsyically looked pretty much identical to their HW shapes and Usyk beat the crap out of Hunter. Not sure how that is irrelevant when we got guys here saying Usyk hasn't done anything.

[margaret thatcher]

Ha, can you imagine being asked to analyze a Hunter-Usyk rematch, and then being told anything that happened in the first fight is totally irrelevant and not allowed to be considered

Why? Who said that? Much has happened since then. Hunter is comfortably at HW now. I already said Usyk would probably beat most of the top 15 guys. I want him to earn the ranking. If that's funny, then you are an easy audience.

Anyone who says Usyk's done nothing is saying that when the guy he dominated is in the rankings. If it's not irrelevant, then it matters and he has done something that carries over to HW

[oogiebe]

I read that the the first several times you posted that. that was 2 1/2 years ago and Hunter is a better fighter today then he was then. I didn't think Usyk looked great against Chazz. A 38 year old; fat; inactive top 100 fighter who quit on his stool (he was gassed) and was never really hurt.

You previously said Usyk did everything he was supposed to do and you couldn't deduce anything from it. You're sounding a little more negative now?

I repeat it because it's just silly to me to act like Hunter-Usyk doesn't count because they sweat off a few more pounds. That is weight class extrimism. They phsyically looked pretty much identical to their HW shapes and Usyk beat the crap out of Hunter. Not sure how that is irrelevant when we got guys here saying Usyk hasn't done anything.

Not at all. I'm now discussing rankings. Never said the first fight with Hunter is irrelevant. Just not weighing it as much as you at this time. I debated with myself to have Usyk at 13 or 14, but that would have been based on me believing he'd beat Kabayel and Hrg. But Hunter got in the way. I think if they fight again, it's a different fight. Probably Usyk wins, but not as one-sided. Just think he needs to fight a better HW to prove himself. A top 25.

[oogiebe]

Why? Who said that? Much has happened since then. Hunter is comfortably at HW now. I already said Usyk would probably beat most of the top 15 guys. I want him to earn the ranking. If that's funny, then you are an easy audience.

Anyone who says Usyk's done nothing is saying that when the guy he dominated is in the rankings. If it's not irrelevant, then it matters and he has done something that carries over to HW

Sure. He's being considered for top 15 ranking here after beating a old/fat Chazz Witherspoon. That surely says something about what we think of Usyk.

[margaret thatcher]

You wanted to put him over the less proven and talented Hrg, but then the guy Usyk dominated and battered got in the way? Okay, we'll have to disagree on this , seems to me a really weak way of rating guys and giving way to much consideration just of the weight class technicality and not of what actually has happened between these guys.

I get people saying they can't rank Usyk high yet, but saying he's not top 15 is extreme

[oogiebe]

You wanted to put him over Hrg, but the guy Usyk dominated got in the way? Okay, we'll have to disagree on this , seems to me a really weak way of rating guys and giving way to much consideration just of the weight class technicality and not of what actually has happened between these guys.

Maybe we should also consider Usyk beating Joyce in the ams? Go back and read what I posted. We're repeating ourselves. Call it weak, stupid, or whatever. My vote stands as it is.

[margaret thatcher]

This is the pros , Usyk beat him up as a pro

[oogiebe]

This is the pros , Usyk beat him up as a pro

[margaret thatcher]

Ya, Mike must have had a long sleep that night, sure needed it too after that beatdown.

[oogiebe]

My vote. No change. See you all next major fight.

[ewenhay]

Doesn't count because they didn't cut a few pounds? Seems weak...

He's at a new weight and he fought someone who was out of shape and seven years past his best work. Whilst appreciating he's been injured and out of action for a while I didn't think he looked that great on Saturday night. What do you want exactly?

He probably would beat Hunter at heavyweight but he hasn't...yet. I never voted Hunter at 14, the concensus did.

He might be top 5 at heavyweight on paper but he hasn't proved it.... yet.

I like Usyk and he should bring something new to the division and extra interest but he's done nothing at heavyweight yet.

Everyone gets a vote. You made yours. Others made theirs. There's a wide variance in the results so far and that's fair enough. Each to their own opinion.

[Jonny22Kupfer]

Usyk to #14

[tiny_acres]

My vote. No change. See you all next major fight.

So he should stay behind Hunter who he clearly beat