Did Jerry Quarry ever floor or KO Ken Norton in sparring during the early 1970s?

[Tony1244]

Quarry went 10 rounds 30 days before his fight with Norton, so the rust argument is a tough one to make. If he was coking and drinking and not training all in between that who is to blame?

Arguably Quarry's best wins were against Shavers and Lyle in 1973 which is not that far removed from the Spring of 1975.

In conclusion, I think the problems were Ali, Frazier, and Norton, not 1972, 1974, and 1975.

As another poster wrote, Ali, Foreman, Frazier, Norton were simply superior to Bonavena, Ellis, Quarry, Lyle.

Sorry, if Frazier or Norton were Jerry's opponent the nights Jerry beat Lyle and Shavers, I still think Frazier and Norton would have won.

[oogiebe]

I would have loved to see Quarry vs Norton in their respective primes. Would've been a great fight. Quarry was the far tougher man and could box, counter, and slug. Would be interesting.

I thought we did. Quarry was only 30 in 1975.

He wasn't prime. It was four or five years too late, IMHO. Quarry was in too many wars earlier in his career and had a short prime.

[Tony1244]

I thought we did. Quarry was only 30 in 1975.

He wasn't prime. It was four or five years too late, IMHO. Quarry was in too many wars earlier in his career and had a short prime.

Norton 1975 VS Quarry 1969, I'd still give the edge to Ken, but who knows?

[oogiebe]

He wasn't prime. It was four or five years too late, IMHO. Quarry was in too many wars earlier in his career and had a short prime.

Norton 1975 VS Quarry 1969, I'd still give the edge to Ken, but who knows?

I'd favor Norton, but it would be a much better fight.

[Tony1244]

Norton 1975 VS Quarry 1969, I'd still give the edge to Ken, but who knows?

I'd favor Norton, but it would be a much better fight.

Quarry was quite inconsistent. You'd think looking at his top 5 or so big wins he would have done better against Frazier and Ali. Bugner went the distance with those guys 3 times. Quarry zero. But Bugner couldn't get by Shavers or Lyle.

Geez, arguably guys like Rudi Lubbers did better against Ali than Quarry did.

[oogiebe]

I'd favor Norton, but it would be a much better fight.

Quarry was quite inconsistent. You'd think looking at his top 5 or so big wins he would have done better against Frazier and Ali. Bugner went the distance with those guys 3 times. Quarry zero. But Bugner couldn't get by Shavers or Lyle.

Geez, arguably guys like Rudi Lubbers did better against Ali than Quarry did.

Quarry did have a cut problem. He was game in a lot of fights he was stopped on cuts.

[Tony1244]

Quarry was quite inconsistent. You'd think looking at his top 5 or so big wins he would have done better against Frazier and Ali. Bugner went the distance with those guys 3 times. Quarry zero. But Bugner couldn't get by Shavers or Lyle.

Geez, arguably guys like Rudi Lubbers did better against Ali than Quarry did.

Quarry did have a cut problem. He was game in a lot of fights he was stopped on cuts.

I was about to say that when you said a younger Jerry may have done better against Norton. Norton-Quarry could have been better in '75 had Jerry not cut.

[Ambling Alp II]

It's always something with Quarry. Getting cut is part of the deal. It's not a coincidence that good defensive fighters get cut less than bad defensive fighters.

As 1969, in that year Quarry got dominated by Frazier. He also got knocked out by George Chuvalo.

[Tony1244]

Jerry had decent power and was a decent boxer. He never put on a great performance against a great fighter like Norton did against Ali and Holmes. Jerry had a lot of heart but he could not take a hard shot and his defense was generally poor.

[hhaehre]

Jerry had decent power and was a decent boxer. He never put on a great performance against a great fighter like Norton did against Ali and Holmes. Jerry had a lot of heart but he could not take a hard shot and his defense was generally poor.

Not a great defence, but couldn't take a hard shot? You have got to be kidding. Norton on the other hand..

[Ambling Alp II]

Had an underrated chin.

[Tony1244]

Jerry had decent power and was a decent boxer. He never put on a great performance against a great fighter like Norton did against Ali and Holmes. Jerry had a lot of heart but he could not take a hard shot and his defense was generally poor.

Not a great defence, but couldn't take a hard shot? You have got to be kidding. Norton on the other hand..

I know the conventional wisdom is Quarry took a great shot, but a fighter who can take a very hard shot doesn't get stopped by Ali in 7. I don't think there was a cut in that fight.

He was no Duane Bobick; he could take a shot to a degree, but frankly I don't think he took a shot as well as Norton or even Scott LeDoux.

[Ambling Alp II]

It was really an accumulation of punches against Ali. As Quarry often did, after a few rounds he went into punching bag mode. He stopped throwing punches and kept getting hit. And contrary to popular belief, Ali could hit.

[hhaehre]

Had an underrated chin.

I actually agree, but chin wise he wasn't in the same league as Quarry

[hhaehre]

It was really an accumulation of punches against Ali. As Quarry often did, after a few rounds he went into punching bag mode. He stopped throwing punches and kept getting hit. And contrary to popular belief, Ali could hit.

Quarry wasn't ko'ed by Ali, he could easily have continued. Nevertheless a good stoppage as he was just talking punishment at that point. Quarry's biggest problem was always stamina.

[hhaehre]

Not a great defence, but couldn't take a hard shot? You have got to be kidding. Norton on the other hand..

I know the conventional wisdom is Quarry took a great shot, but a fighter who can take a very hard shot doesn't get stopped by Ali in 7. I don't think there was a cut in that fight.

Ali ko'ed both Foreman and Bonavena so I don't think it's such a shame to be stopped on your feet like Quarry was. Norton's chin was average, especially later in his career he didn't react well when hit. Norton had a much better defence than Quarry, especially a tired Quarry.

[klompton]

Not a great defence, but couldn't take a hard shot? You have got to be kidding. Norton on the other hand..

I know the conventional wisdom is Quarry took a great shot, but a fighter who can take a very hard shot doesn't get stopped by Ali in 7. I don't think there was a cut in that fight.

He was no Duane Bobick; he could take a shot to a degree, but frankly I don't think he took a shot as well as Norton or even Scott LeDoux.

Foreman got dropped and stopped in 8. Quarry was TKOd without ever going down in 7. I guess Foreman couldnt take a hard shot either...

[Tony1244]

I know the conventional wisdom is Quarry took a great shot, but a fighter who can take a very hard shot doesn't get stopped by Ali in 7. I don't think there was a cut in that fight.

Ali ko'ed both Foreman and Bonavena so I don't think it's such a shame to be stopped on your feet like Quarry was. Norton's chin was average, especially later in his career he didn't react well when hit. Norton had a much better defence than Quarry, especially a tired Quarry.

Very true Norton had much better defense than Quarry, but when he did get hit he took Ali's punches better.

Bonavena bothered Ali (Quarry didn't) and got into the 15th round.

[Tony1244]

I know the conventional wisdom is Quarry took a great shot, but a fighter who can take a very hard shot doesn't get stopped by Ali in 7. I don't think there was a cut in that fight.

He was no Duane Bobick; he could take a shot to a degree, but frankly I don't think he took a shot as well as Norton or even Scott LeDoux.

Foreman got dropped and stopped in 8. Quarry was TKOd without ever going down in 7. I guess Foreman couldnt take a hard shot either...

Foreman unquestionably had stamina issues. I never said Quarry had a glass jaw, but it wasn't as good as Bugners.

[oogiebe]

I know the conventional wisdom is Quarry took a great shot, but a fighter who can take a very hard shot doesn't get stopped by Ali in 7. I don't think there was a cut in that fight.

He was no Duane Bobick; he could take a shot to a degree, but frankly I don't think he took a shot as well as Norton or even Scott LeDoux.

Foreman got dropped and stopped in 8. Quarry was TKOd without ever going down in 7. I guess Foreman couldnt take a hard shot either...

Foreman went down from sheer exhaustion.

[margaret thatcher]

A stoppage itself doesn't say anything about a chin. You can go the distance getting dropped several times and badly hurt, yet get stopped without so much as being wobbled. Boxing fans should know there is more to it than just the result on paper.

Look at a fighter like Mariusz Wach, never been even close to going down , took shots from Wlad, Pov, Whyte like they were nothing, but got stopped by Bakole and Miller simply because he was taking so many punches that the ref thought it was too much. He has been stopped more times than 15x knock down victim Hassan N'dam has, so does Ndam have a better chin?

I can't remember how Quarry Ali went though

[Caractacus]

I was reading Ken Norton's autobiography GOING THE DISTANCE the other day.
He wrote when he turned pro in late 1968 he was based in San Diego but trained at the Hoover Street Gym
in South-Central Los Angles.
His first trainer there was Henry Davidson but after a few fights Eddie Futch
became his trainer in 1969.
in 1969 Eddie Futch joined Joe Fraziers team to help train him.
Ken Norton became a sparring partner to Frazier around that time.
at the Hoover street gym in L.A one day in January 1970,Muhammad Ali stopped by and had a spirtited sparring session with Ken Norton. Ali came back the next day to sparr with him again but Futch had Norton stay in his street clothes.
they didnt fight until 1973.

[Caractacus]

[klompton]

Foreman got dropped and stopped in 8. Quarry was TKOd without ever going down in 7. I guess Foreman couldnt take a hard shot either...

Foreman unquestionably had stamina issues. I never said Quarry had a glass jaw, but it wasn't as good as Bugners.

So your point is that simply being stopped in a certain round doesnt necessarily mean a fighters chin is suspect? Im glad you understood my point and that we agree. Now go find a film of Ken Norton flopping all over the ring after getting dropped by Harold Dutra and youll see why his chin was never considered anything more than suspect...

[Tony1244]

Foreman unquestionably had stamina issues. I never said Quarry had a glass jaw, but it wasn't as good as Bugners.

So your point is that simply being stopped in a certain round doesnt necessarily mean a fighters chin is suspect? Im glad you understood my point and that we agree. Now go find a film of Ken Norton flopping all over the ring after getting dropped by Harold Dutra and youll see why his chin was never considered anything more than suspect...

I rate Norton's chin as marginally better than Quarry's. Maybe a 7 to 7.5 respectively. When I think of a great HW chin I think of Ali, McCall, Chuvalo.

As PM Thatcher said it depends how a fighter got stopped. Quarry wasn't taking Ali's shots well a third of the way thru their fight in 1972 and Ali was never a 9 or 10 puncher, think we can all agree on that. Norton was stopped by Garcia, but that was one fight. After he got his sh!t together and read Power of Positive Thinking ) it took a very hard puncher to stop him in his prime, Foreman and Shavers.