Is Fury a lineal champion?

[ewenhay]

But nobody will, either. You'll be able to play "somebody else still has XYZ belt" until the cows come home.

There are 4 major belts. Crawford and Usyk established new lineages, but they both moved up, so those disappeared.

Where does it state that you have to win four belts to establish a new lineage?

[boxing_rocks]

These are opinions. Wlad never met formal requirements to become a lineal champion.

Which would have required him to fight his own brother? Because he did everything else but that.

And what are these formal requirements? Are they written down somewhere?

The same could be said about Vitaly. He did everything else except fighting his brother.

Two unquestionable ways to become a lineal champion are to beat "the man" or to become undisputed. There are no written rules, but the only other way is when two best men (accepted by overwhelming majority) at a certain weight fight each other, for example if Spence and Crawford fought before the accident, a winner would likely be accepted as a new lineal champion.

[ewenhay]

Which would have required him to fight his own brother? Because he did everything else but that.

And what are these formal requirements? Are they written down somewhere?

The same could be said about Vitaly. He did everything else except fighting his brother.

Two unquestionable ways to become a lineal champion are to beat "the man" or to become undisputed. There are no written rules, but the only other way is when two best men (accepted by overwhelming majority) at a certain weight fight each other, for example if Spence and Crawford fought before the accident, a winner would likely be accepted as a new lineal champion.

Who are qualified to be the overwhelming majority?

What if the accepted best two only hold one belt each and someone else has two?

And who decided it was 4 belts and not 2 or 3?

[boxing_rocks]

The same could be said about Vitaly. He did everything else except fighting his brother.

Two unquestionable ways to become a lineal champion are to beat "the man" or to become undisputed. There are no written rules, but the only other way is when two best men (accepted by overwhelming majority) at a certain weight fight each other, for example if Spence and Crawford fought before the accident, a winner would likely be accepted as a new lineal champion.

Who are qualified to be the overwhelming majority?

What if the accepted best two only hold one belt each and someone else has two?

And who decided it was 4 belts and not 2 or 3?

Whatever, everybody knows that you get undisputed by winning the 4 major belts. I am not continuing arguing for the sake of arguing.

[ewenhay]

Who are qualified to be the overwhelming majority?

What if the accepted best two only hold one belt each and someone else has two?

And who decided it was 4 belts and not 2 or 3?

Whatever, everybody knows that you get undisputed by winning the 4 major belts. I am not continuing arguing for the sake of arguing.

I'm not having a go at you. Just that it is ludicrous and almost impossible in the modern era not least because of inactivity, promoters and TV deals etc to become undisputed.

In addition to being unfairly denied for not fighting his brother Klitschko beat Povetkin who was recognised as number 2. Plus Vitali was retired for a few years.

The overwhelming majority recognised Klitschko as the only credible champion during his final reign. Im no fan of Klitschko as a fighter but fair is fair.

[Enlightened-One]

Fury is the lineal champion, at least until he faces Wilder for the second time.

End of thread.

[Brute]

Fury is the lineal champion, at least until he faces Wilder for the second time.

End of thread.

Now what? Until he fights him for the third time?

[oogiebe]

I may not think Fury is lineal, but he is now surely number one. What a performance!

[Cyclops]

Fury is the champ. Swallow it pudenda

[oogiebe]

Fury is the champ. Swallow it pudenda

what did I say wrong?

[sturm vogel]

Fury always was The Champ -he defeated Klitschko and then the British Wankers Associations took out their tea cups and spoons and starting tinking.

[p4p1]

In regards to Fury's positive test, wasn't his B sample clean? Normally the B sample being clean exonerates someone.

[6 Pack]

It only exists for hw usually because nobody can move up i weight so its easier to track

Wlad was the recognized champion after beating chagaev

Fury beat him. But was suspended for ped usage(i dont count the bogus retirement)

So you look at it 3 ways:

Accept the official results and fury is champ

Accept he won but cheated and is stripped and it should be vacant

Say he cheated, wlad should have kept the title and Joshua is champ

I think number 2. Espn says number 1

The lineal championship exists for all weight classes (i.e. Canelo at 160lbs and Artur Beterbiev at 175lbs).

The lineal champion is usually considered "the man who beat the man" (i.e. by beating the previous lineal titleholder).

Tyson Fury is technically the lineal champion. There’s no ambiguity about this.

That being said, the “lineal” champion isn’t necessarily the best fighter in that division (i.e. Shannon Briggs [when Lewis and Holyfield held all the titles] & Michael Spinks [when Mike Tyson was the undisputed champion]).

Also, Guillermo Rigondeaux has been the lineal champion at super bantamweight for the last 2½ years, despite not possessing any of the official world titles at that weight, not currently being considered the best fighter at 122lbs, as well as losing to Lomachenko at 130lbs after acquiring the lineal championship in the lower division.

So it's clear that lineal champions are simply considered “the man that beat the man”. It isn't always a prestigious status to hold.

Top Rank and ESPN will inevitably market Fury’s lineal title reign to the mainstream masses, because it elevates his status, so that naive casuals “buy” into the idea that his status is on a par with Deontay Wilder and Anthony Joshua.

I don’t really see the point in contesting Tyson Fury’s lineal titleholder credentials, because it’s a non-issue. Most hardcore fight fans couldn’t care less about this moniker.

Could not disagree more. Most hardcore fans agree with the lineal title. Most Johnny come late fans do not. But true fans who understand the history of the sport know the lineal title is the title that has always been. Way before we ever had these alphabet organizations that are crooked and corrupted. You likely did not follow the sport then, or know much about the sport in those days.

The lineal title has a history of recognition back to John L. Sullivan.

If you think the hardcore fans don't give the lineal title much credit I want to question your boxing history knowledge.

It's how Ali said he was still champ when they stripped him. Cuz he was the lineal champion.

Stick around, read about the sport's history, and humble yourself. Please don't speak for the "hardcore" fans until you learn about the history of the sport.

[samwbr]

In regards to Fury's positive test, wasn't his B sample clean? Normally the B sample being clean exonerates someone.

He accepted the ban, he was guilty. Same as his cousin. It just doesn't get mentioned very much.

[SteveO]

For those that don't fully understand the lineal title:
It has absolutely nothing to do with any boxing organizations or their various 'world title' belts.

[ewenhay]

For those that don't fully understand the lineal title:
It has absolutely nothing to do with any boxing organizations or their various 'world title' belts.

Exactly.

[boxing_rocks]

For those that don't fully understand the lineal title:
It has absolutely nothing to do with any boxing organizations or their various 'world title' belts.

It doesn't if you beat the man. It does when you want to start a new lineage.

[SteveO]

No.....it's got nothing to do with belts - never has, never will.
It's simply the #1 boxer beating the #2 boxer.
Anway Fury has won all the belts. WBA, WBO, IBF, IBO and RING MAGAZINE from his first reign and now the WBC belt from his second reign

[Jeff_lacy_ko]

What we are just going to pretend fres oquendo doesnt exist and have a claim here?

[margaret thatcher]

What we are just going to pretend fres oquendo doesnt exist and have a claim here?

Needs to settle that with Chris Lovejoy before a true champ can be crowned

[Paci]

What we are just going to pretend fres oquendo doesnt exist and have a claim here?

Needs to settle that with Chris Lovejoy before a true champ can be crowned

Word.