British boxers taken to sacrificial altar in USA

[TheGman]

Kal Yafai the latest Matchroom offering.

$$$$$$$$$

I dont agree,if your world champ you fight the best simple as that.

[ThereByTheGrace]

Danny williams was "offered" as a sacrifice to mike tyson and put him on his ass.

The very next fight he was offered again to vitali Klitschko. Well you cant win them all

[PredatorHayds]

Yafai started that fight as favourite with the bookies.
A fight Yafai needed. Treading water as a champ. Estrada fight fell through last year.
I thought Gonzalez was his usual fantastic self.
Easily one of the Top 5 fighters of the last decade.

[maverick23]

What are Matchroom meant to do? Yafai’s been champ a few years, hasn’t done anything special (other than a good title win) and the names/money in the division are in North America.

Yafai had 2 titles before in the US against lower level guys and won and now faces one of the very best and got beat. That happens when you want fighters to be stepped up. Fighters are criticised for poor title defences and then when they are stepped up, and lose, the promoters are criticised.

Without knowing the odds on the fight I would have thought they were pretty tight

They could have stepped him up gradually, instead of feeding him low level guys and then suddenly put him in with an elite level guy?

He’s a world champion though who beat a good champ for the title. I can’t really make a case for him needing to be built gradually after that before facing one of the top 3/4.

[Terminator666]

Have any of them upset the apple cart?

[mickey1975]

Have any of them upset the apple cart?

Tyson Fury

[margaret thatcher]

Kal gott beaten up but not sacrificed, he was the fave and I think they thought RG was shot and beatable

[Ricky]

Kal gott beaten up but not sacrificed, he was the fave and I think they thought RG was shot and beatable

Won a big score on Roman by KO last night
Absolutely bizarre odds. I used to bet on Roman by KO when he shared cards with GGG and he'd always be very short odds. I'm not sure why he's fell so far in people estimations simply due to the wangek fights. I had him winning the first and the 2nd fight he just got clipped, it happens. Roman will beat Wangek if they fight a 3rd time.

[Loftgroov]

Have any of them upset the apple cart?

Kell Brook?

[keirw]

Have any of them upset the apple cart?

Kell Brook?

Froch (vs Taylor)

[KiwiRider]

Kal gott beaten up but not sacrificed, he was the fave and I think they thought RG was shot and beatable

Won a big score on Roman by KO last night
Absolutely bizarre odds. I used to bet on Roman by KO when he shared cards with GGG and he'd always be very short odds. I'm not sure why he's fell so far in people estimations simply due to the wangek fights. I had him winning the first and the 2nd fight he just got clipped, it happens. Roman will beat Wangek if they fight a 3rd time.

I think it was also Roman's age and recent inactivity that swung the odds to Kal. Wanger had the measure of Gonzales, razor close first fight, and emphatic second.

[TheGman]

Kell Brook?

Froch (vs Taylor)

Taylor the middleweight moving up 8lbs tp fight a full fledged 168lb fighter? Froch was meant to blow taylor away,taylor had been smashed by pavlik 2 fights before this and was never the same guy who beat hopkins twice. I dpnt thinks warrants being taken to be sacrificed

[keirw]

Froch (vs Taylor)

Taylor the middleweight moving up 8lbs tp fight a full fledged 168lb fighter? Froch was meant to blow taylor away,taylor had been smashed by pavlik 2 fights before this and was never the same guy who beat hopkins twice. I dpnt thinks warrants being taken to be sacrificed

My memory isn't the greatest, but I'm pretty sure the former undisputed middleweight champ was expected by many (particularly in the US) to become a two weight world champion.

The champion he had to beat was unknown and relatively unproven and had just won a vacant title against another unknown and unproven fighter.

Obviously, at the time nobody knew the great careers both said unknown fighters would go on to have.

[margaret thatcher]

Jean Pascal was an Olympian who had been on US TV (Friday Night Fights) several times, not sure he was unknown. Think Taylor was a slight fave?

[Terminator666]

I’m just wondering would Lloyd Honeyghan be classes as someone who upset the apple cart against Curry -I mean he certainly was a big under dog- was he a sacrificial lamb though?

[keirw]

Jean Pascal was an Olympian who had been on US TV (Friday Night Fights) several times, not sure he was unknown. Think Taylor was a slight fave?

Maybe not unknown, but certainly unproven at the top level.

As I say, I seem to remember a lot of people fancying Taylor prior to the fight.

[rd350lc]

I’m just wondering would Lloyd Honeyghan be classes as someone who upset the apple cart against Curry -I mean he certainly was a big under dog- was he a sacrificial lamb though?

Yes ,that was a massive upset at the time and not many expected him to beat curry but I always associate the sacrificial lamb tag to someone who has absolutely no chance of winning .

[oogiebe]

I’m just wondering would Lloyd Honeyghan be classes as someone who upset the apple cart against Curry -I mean he certainly was a big under dog- was he a sacrificial lamb though?

Yes ,that was a massive upset at the time and not many expected him to beat curry but I always associate the sacrificial lamb tag to someone who has absolutely no chance of winning .

Being an American, I remember my utter shock at Curry losing that fight. But I didn't think it was supposed to be a Curry demolition of Lloyd.

[Delta Jay]

Don’t agree with the tone here. If you’re a pro fighter you want to fight the best. You’re not being sacrificed, you’re getting a shot.

People would complain if the same fighter took an easy option. And Yafai was a proper world champion and started the fight as favourite, no way should he be in this conversation.

[TheGman]

Don’t agree with the tone here. If you’re a pro fighter you want to fight the best. You’re not being sacrificed, you’re getting a shot.

People would complain if the same fighter took an easy option. And Yafai was a proper world champion and started the fight as favourite, no way should he be in this conversation.

I agree

[keirw]

To be fair, I don't think any of the fighters mentioned took their fights without believing they have at least a small chance of winning.

Nationality aside, most of the fights listed on this thread are fights between contenders and proven champions.

Most of the time those fights go the way of the champion anyway.

[bennie]

Not read all the comments so sorry if been repeated

Barry McGuigan v Steve Cruz

McGuigan went over as a huge betting favourite against the unheralded Cruz, who only got the job when Argentina's Fernando Sosa picked up eye trouble in training. McGuigan, defending his WBA featherweight title, was part of a triple-headliner that also featured Tommy Hearns against Mark Medal and a comebacking Roberto Duran against Marvin Hagler's half-brother Robbie Sims. Nobody gave Cruz a chance but McGuigan fought as badly as he had in his previous two defences against Bernard Taylor and Danilo Cabrera and this time he failed to come through. A lot is made of the Nevada climate but the same outdoor temperatures didn't affect Colin Jones in his rematch with Milton McCrory three years earlier in Las Vegas (admittedly, a 12-rounder but Jones was robbed) and McGuigan was known to train in red-hot conditions in the gym - "the hotter, the better," cracked his manager Barney Eastwood, with whom McGuigan had completely fallen out so I suppose Eastwood would say that
Nevertheless, Barry lost something once he won the world title, he lost his spark, and his performance against Cruz echoed the displays of Hearns and Duran on the night, both of whom started brilliantly but then faded and looked pretty damn ordinary, although Hearns did manage to beat the gutsy Medal. Hearns and Duran shrugged their shoulders and would come again but McGuigan never really got over his defeat.

[Stuarty]

Remember Paul Smith taking an absolute tanking from Andre Ward. Was pretty good to watch

Bloody sadist

He had no business being in a ring with Ward

[Glass Joe]

Casuals dont really care about fighters (under 9ST) Frampton most recent exception, so they generally have to fight in the States to earn a semi-decent purse.

[bennie]

I’m just wondering would Lloyd Honeyghan be classes as someone who upset the apple cart against Curry -I mean he certainly was a big under dog- was he a sacrificial lamb though?

Yes, he was expected to lose and lose convincingly to the unbeaten Curry who had destroyed Milton McCrory in two blistering rounds in a unification showdown nine months earlier in Las Vegas and then blasted a challenger from Panama on home soil in Texas, again in two rounds, although Curry did look a bit sloppy against the latter. Honeyghan was also unbeaten but nobody really knew him in the States ("How do I sell this guy?" cracked an exasperated Irving Rudd, Bob Arum's PR man) so nobody really knew his form here against the likes of Sylvester Mittee, Roger Stafford and Horace Shufford, all of whom he totally outclassed, and his stunning knockout of Gianfranco Rosi in three rounds Italy lacked the impact it deserved at the time because Rosi was then unknown outside Italy.
Moreover, Honeyghan had looked terrible in two appearances in the States against Danny Paul and Kevin Austin - just terrible - and those appearances were probably defining him in Team Curry and Team Arum. However, boxing is all about timing and Curry, unbeknown to many, was rowing with manager Dave Gorman and just couldn't make welterweight safely any more. He was bone dry on his way to the ring. Throw in the gruff, unafraid, superfit Honeyghan, who trained harder than anyone will ever really know, and it was Turpin-Robinson all over again, if not on the same scale.