Your HW ratings

[Lennox]

when you have situation where A beats B and B beats C but C beats A, you have to align the result to most recent first.

Andy Ruiz beat Joshua first time, as soon as Joshua beats him it is in the past.

No one said Joe Parker should be #1 when Ruiz beat Joshua because, Joshua and Whyte defeated Parker.

We are not going to agree on the correct way of doing it though.

[margaret thatcher]

Helenius has the most recent win and he is the only guy to beat someone with wins over 2 of the other 3. Clearly he is superior on that front. Wash and Kow just got stopped. Martin beat a guy who has just 1 win out of the 3 guys. Helenius triumphs here.

Having Washington ahead of Kownacki, yet then at the same time also ahead Helenius based on their head to head, makes absolutely f@ck all sense. Kownacki butchered Washington and has a way stronger record. They both lost recently to opponents who the other beat, but Kownacki was far more competitive in his loss. Saying f@ck all this, and going just to the most recent triangle fights makes no sense if you are also keeping Helenius behind Washington. There is no good reason to do that when you have 0 issue putting Washington ahead of a guy who KTFO him in far more one sided fashion than he beat Helenius

I don't see at all how Washington has somehow earned a ranking ahead of Kownacki if Helenius hasn't earned one ahead of Washington. Helenius-Washington was far closer than Kownacki-Washington and Helenius and Wash are much closer in resumes than Wash and Kownacki are.

Who woulda thunk it that Gerald Washington was the big winner in all this, maybe he'll get a title shot soon

[gilgamesh]

That’s pretty good.

Yeah that's pretty solid - not sure about Usyk, though.
Not doubting talent or potential, but I find it difficult to rank fighters in a weight category they haven't really competed in. Bashing up Chazz wouldn't land a guy a top 10 spot. Though yeah, you wouldn't rank him as a debutant.

Admittedly Usyk is ranked off of being THE MAN in the Cruiserweight division, and being one of the top P4P guys more than anything he's achieved as a Heavyweight, but I can't imagine he won't at least be fighting a significant contender soon enough.

If he continues dragging ass, and fighting the Witherspoon's of the world for another year or so he'll drop or people will rise past him. I'd be shocked if that were the case though.

[DrDuke]

The four of Martin-Helenius-Kownacki-Washington should go exactly in that order.

Martin is the best out of them. He KOed Washington, lost to Kownacki, but in a close, competetive fight. He also has a sort of a privilege due to being a former World champ, however, it's more impressive and important on the paper, than in the reality. He comes out of a win.

Helenius follows. He lost to Washington, but it was a relatively close bout with him winning before getting KOed. While his win over Kownacki is the most important win among this four. And he comes out of this win right now.

Kownacki follows, he simply can't be higher the guy, by whom he has just being KOed.

Washington goes after them all for sure. Yes, he KOed Helenius, but he was KOed himself by the other two and he comes out of a KO loss. Also he has the least impressive resume among them.

This picture gives a hint, how logocal Helenius-Martin fight is right now.

[oogiebe]

1. Fury
2. Joshua
3. Wilder
4. Usyk
5. Whyte
6. Ortiz
7. Ruiz Jr.
8. Hunter
9. Povetkin
10.Pulev
11. Parker
12. Chisora
13. Dubs
14. Joyce
15. Hrgovic

[Tevfik1907]

1- Fury
2- Wilder
3- Joshua
4- Ruiz Jr.
5- Whyte
6- Parker
7- Rivas
8- Pulev
9- Hunter
10- Usyk
11- Ortiz
12- Joe Joyce
13- Povetkin
14- Chisora
15- Hrgovic

[jezzamundo]

Champ - Joshua
1. Fury
2. Wilder
3. Whyte
4. Ruiz
5. Parker
6. Usyk
7. Pulev
8. Ortiz
9. Povetkin
10. Hunter

[Tevfik1907]

Champ - Joshua
1. Fury
2. Wilder
3. Whyte
4. Ruiz
5. Parker
6. Usyk
7. Pulev
8. Ortiz
9. Povetkin
10. Hunter

Others are obviously debatable, and I won't argue on that.

But Fury > Joshua is debatable too?

I mean, if Fury doesn't lose to Wilder in the third fight, Joshua has nothing on Fury right now.

Fury beat 2015 Klitschko in Germany
Joshua beat 2017 Klitschko in England

Fighting 2015 Klitschko in neutral territory > fighting 2017 Klitschko in home.

Fury beat Wilder twice, one by points and the other by TKO
AJ got KOed by Andy Ruiz Jr., and won the second round by points.

And it's obvious that Wilder > Andy Ruiz Jr.

I want to hear your arguments on why you think Joshua > Fury?

[KiwiRider]

1, Joshua
2, Fury
3, Whyte
4, Wilder
5, Ruiz
6, Pulev
7, Parker
8, Usyk
9, Povitkin
10, Ortiz
11, Hunter
12. Chisora
13. Joyce
14. DDD
15. Hrgovic

If Pulev loses, he is out of my top #15. Ortiz is only on my list due to lack of anyone else even though I think he is done in the top #10.
In fact, the only guys I can see moving up soon are Hrgovic, and the winner of DDD/Joyce.

[gregregegg]

1, Joshua
2, Fury
3, Whyte
4, Wilder
5, Ruiz
6, Pulev
7, Parker
8, Usyk
9, Povitkin
10, Ortiz
11, Hunter
12. Chisora
13. Joyce
14. DDD
15. Hrgovic

If Pulev loses, he is out of my top #15. Ortiz is only on my list due to lack of anyone else even though I think he is done in the top #10.
In fact, the only guys I can see moving up soon are Hrgovic, and the winner of DDD/Joyce.

Pulev at 6 yet if he loses to number 1 he is out of the top 15.... I can't say I'm against it but it's odd.
I think pulev realy is the hardest to rank. It kinda shows how the division is kinda deep but people rarely fight good guys. Puleves recent "good wins" Hughie? Close Chisora fight 5 years ago? Before that probly somthing in 2013. ... Yet noone below him has a recent win decisively better than Hughie fury....

[tiny_acres]

1, Joshua
2, Fury
3, Whyte
4, Wilder
5, Ruiz
6, Pulev
7, Parker
8, Usyk
9, Povitkin
10, Ortiz
11, Hunter
12. Chisora
13. Joyce
14. DDD
15. Hrgovic

If Pulev loses, he is out of my top #15. Ortiz is only on my list due to lack of anyone else even though I think he is done in the top #10.
In fact, the only guys I can see moving up soon are Hrgovic, and the winner of DDD/Joyce.

Pulev at 6 yet if he loses to number 1 he is out of the top 15.... I can't say I'm against it but it's odd.
I think pulev realy is the hardest to rank. It kinda shows how the division is kinda deep but people rarely fight good guys. Puleves recent "good wins" Hughie? Close Chisora fight 5 years ago? Before that probly somthing in 2013. ... Yet noone below him has a recent win decisively better than Hughie fury....

No matter what the scorecards said.
Pulev clearly and decisively beat Chisora.
The rest of your post is spot on

[margaret thatcher]

Pulev won a minimum of 8 rounds vs Chisora, I had it 10-2

[Heretic]

1, Joshua
2, Fury
3, Whyte
4, Wilder
5, Ruiz
6, Pulev
7, Parker
8, Usyk
9, Povitkin
10, Ortiz
11, Hunter
12. Chisora
13. Joyce
14. DDD
15. Hrgovic

If Pulev loses, he is out of my top #15. Ortiz is only on my list due to lack of anyone else even though I think he is done in the top #10.
In fact, the only guys I can see moving up soon are Hrgovic, and the winner of DDD/Joyce.

The best list so far. All the way down to spot 13. I see your point with the rest of the list but to me it is too early to rank any of the three up and comers.

I would instead look at names like Miller, Helenius and Rivas Or even guys like Martin, Hammer and Wallin.

I agree about Ortiz. He is really hard to rank currently. Almost beat Wilder the first time but has not done nothing else in years. I hope he takes loss soon and we can be done with him.

[margaret thatcher]

The four of Martin-Helenius-Kownacki-Washington should go exactly in that order.

Martin is the best out of them. He KOed Washington, lost to Kownacki, but in a close, competetive fight. He also has a sort of a privilege due to being a former World champ, however, it's more impressive and important on the paper, than in the reality. He comes out of a win.

Helenius follows. He lost to Washington, but it was a relatively close bout with him winning before getting KOed. While his win over Kownacki is the most important win among this four. And he comes out of this win right now.

Kownacki follows, he simply can't be higher the guy, by whom he has just being KOed.

Washington goes after them all for sure. Yes, he KOed Helenius, but he was KOed himself by the other two and he comes out of a KO loss. Also he has the least impressive resume among them.

This picture gives a hint, how logocal Helenius-Martin fight is right now.

Agree, Wash is clearly last , and if someone bizarrely rates him ahead of Kow (a guy who destoryed him in 2 in 2019 and has a far strongeer resume) they also need to have Helenis ahead of Wash (competitive fight + probably a better resume for Helenius if anything)

[Paci]

Either I go by the Ring or those exile ring-guys who made their own, and boxrecs ratings.

C - Fury
1.Jousha
2.Wilder
3.Whyte
4.Ruiz
5.Pulev
6.Povetkin
7.Ortiz
8.Parker
9.Chisora
10.Martin
11.Usyk
12.Hunter
13.Helenius
14.Breazale
15.Rivas

Honourable mentions - Joyce, Kownacki, H.Fury, Hammer and Lovejoy*.


*=19 fights and 22 rounds baby!

[Finkel]

Give me your ratings, to whatever number you want

There have been some big results for the division lately

Were you planning to collate these ratings?

[Cyclops]

Champion: Tyson Fury
1. Joshua
2. Wilder
3. Whyte
4. Ortiz
5. Ruiz
6. Pulev
7. Povetkin
8. Parker
9. Chisora
10. Joyce

I can't rank Usyk because he's been inactive and has only fought a crap opponent at HW. Hunter has provided some gutsy efforts but not enough to make him top 10 yet IMO. If Whyte does a number on Povetkin I might have him over Wilder, and if joyce beats Dubois convincingly then I'd swap his place with the Russian. It would be nice for Povetkin, Ortiz and Pulev to finally get smashed out of the top ten and the new blood really take over this year.

[Cyclops]

One thing everyone seems to have Ruiz in front of Wilder. Not sure why. Ruiz beat Joshua (no 2 rated by most) convincingly by ko. In the rematch he lost on points but was hardly an inspiring fight and he didnt train. Wilder got battered convincingly by Fury and stopped. Didnt win a second. I mean battered. Why is wilder rated above ruiz? I reckon it would be 50/50 fight between them but ruiz hasn't been given a leathering just was too fat to perform. I dont get the faith in wilder to keep him at 3. He was more or less at 3 anyway before his hiding.

Unless he pulls something magical out of the bag for part 3 I struggle to even see him making top 5 soon. But Ruiz has one good win. It's not enough for me to unseat Wilder from his third best heavy spot.

[Tevfik1907]

Why is wilder rated above ruiz?

Wilder has 10 title defenses.
Andy Ruiz Jr. has none.

Andy Ruiz Jr. lost to Joseph Parker, it would be hard to imagine that Wilder losing to Parker.

Wilder has far better KO ratio than Andy Ruiz Jr. has.
Infact, even Tyson Fury's KO ratio (67%) > Andy Ruiz Jr.'s KO ratio (63%).

[Tony1244]

C. Fury
1. Joshua
2. Wilder
3. Ruiz
4. Whyte
5. Povetkin
6. Pulev
7. Ortiz
8. Parker
9. Usyk
10.Hunter

[KiwiRider]

1, Joshua
2, Fury
3, Whyte
4, Wilder
5, Ruiz
6, Pulev
7, Parker
8, Usyk
9, Povitkin
10, Ortiz
11, Hunter
12. Chisora
13. Joyce
14. DDD
15. Hrgovic

If Pulev loses, he is out of my top #15. Ortiz is only on my list due to lack of anyone else even though I think he is done in the top #10.
In fact, the only guys I can see moving up soon are Hrgovic, and the winner of DDD/Joyce.

Pulev at 6 yet if he loses to number 1 he is out of the top 15.... I can't say I'm against it but it's odd.
I think pulev realy is the hardest to rank. It kinda shows how the division is kinda deep but people rarely fight good guys. Puleves recent "good wins" Hughie? Close Chisora fight 5 years ago? Before that probly somthing in 2013. ... Yet noone below him has a recent win decisively better than Hughie fury....

Pulev has been ticking over for years. Doing just enough to be relevant. I think Joshua retires him. Or if not, puts him out of relevance. Just my thoughts. He is like a guy at university, getting straight C grades for years, just enough to stay in, but not enough to get a degree. Then he fails his master's exam and drops out.

[margaret thatcher]

Give me your ratings, to whatever number you want

There have been some big results for the division lately

Were you planning to collate these ratings?

Nah, just curious what people have now since there have been some notable results the last few months, with Ruiz, Wilder, and Kownacki losing etc

[Perkin Warbeck]

1. Tyson Fury
2. Anthony Joshua
3. Oleksandr Usyk
4. Dillian Whyte
5. Andy Ruiz Jr
6. Deontay Wilder
7. Alexander Povetkin
8. Michael Hunter
9. Joseph Parker
10. Daniel Dubois or Filip Hrgovic

[Finkel]

Were you planning to collate these ratings?

Nah, just curious what people have now since there have been some notable results the last few months, with Ruiz, Wilder, and Kownacki losing etc

Ah, okay, well as it seemed around the same time you started this thread, you were talking about wishing we still had that vote on the Box Rec Forum HW Rankings. I've also seen quite a few posters say the same thing the past few months. so......


Based on what everyone has put in this thread this is the collated

BoxRec Forum HW top 15:

1. Tyson Fury
2. Anthony Joshua
3. Deontay Wilder
4. Dillian Whyte
5. Andy Ruiz Jr.
6. Alexander Povetkin
7. Kubrat Pulev
8. Joseph Parker
9. Luis Ortiz
10. Michael Hunter
11. Oleksandr Usyk
12. Dereck Chisora
13. Joe Joyce
14. Charles Martin
15. Robert Helenius

I looked at a few methods of averaging the votes, but the one I settled on that seemed to reflect the general consensus was:

To take a top 30 list from PBO ranking (don't worry no votes fell outside of the top30). I then included everyone's rankings from this thread up to the 15 spot. Then if people went beyond 15, I defaulted to rank 16. If people only went to say a 10 rank, I also defaulted to 16 beyond that. Finally I removed one vote for the highest score and one from the lowest for each fighter (to smooth out any outliers).
I apologise if your vote was an outlier, but it seemed the fairest way to do it. Truth be told I would prefer not to include Usyk until after the Chisora fight, but as I say, this is the outcome the board have voted for.

Now if anyone wants to use this, and take the batton to start up a rankings voting thread please do. But I am afraid I will be juggling a near full time job and a PhD from April, so I won't be able to take on this task.


p.s. If anyone wants to add their own Rankings to this thread I will happily include them aswell.
p.p.s. If anyone has comments or suggestions for my method please let me know (I'm not a statistician).

[Heretic]

Thanks for compiling the list.

I was thinking of doing one vote list my self. Just didn't have time to do it.

If someone would take up the job that Dac(don't remember the rest of the name) and I think it was jezzamundo before him did I would be really happy to vote on it.

One easier way to do it would be to just have vote once every month. Lot less of hassle than running the proper one with votes after each fight.

It would be worse ranking but still something.