Your HW ratings

[Tony1244]

It was said in jest and even if it was true, rooting for or against a region makes it fun.

I think you stung the poor lad. PS: Did you find those bikini pics?

Yeah, I saw a few. Not bad, especially for the category of a presidential candidate.

I wonder how Horse is taking Tulsi's and Bernie's kind words about Biden? Horse may need some counseling on this. )

[oogiebe]

I think you stung the poor lad. PS: Did you find those bikini pics?

Yeah, I saw a few. Not bad, especially for the category of a presidential candidate.

I wonder how Horse is taking Tulsi's and Bernie's kind words about Biden? Horse may need some counseling on this. )

Odd one that Horse fella.

[margaret thatcher]

No one is more stung than the snowflakes who see bias and hate in everything

Eww, Tony in a bikini, no thanks

[Tony1244]

No one is more stung than the snowflakes who see bias and hate in everything

Eww, Tony in a bikini, no thanks

We finally agree on something. You wouldn't like Tulsi, she's from the Americas.

[margaret thatcher]

Ah, so she's one of those socialist, Portugese speaking, peso spending, Canada goose lovers

[Tony1244]

Even if you did root against the US, I would not call that hate. We all have biases, even you marg.

[Tony1244]

Ah, so she's one of those socialist, Portugese speaking, peso spending, Canada goose lovers

You have her bad side.

[candyslim]

I mean think about it, of course Kownacki was way ahead of Wash prior to their last fights

So then they both get knocked out, Kownacki while ahead and Washington while pitifully losing every round. Both stopped by opponents the other beat but Kow was being far more competitive.

Yet somehow now, off the back of a 5-0 KO loss to Chuck, Wash moves closer to the front of the pack, ahead of a guy who quickly KTFO him and has a vastly better record? I mean, I just can't see how there is really any good sense how this happens, unless perhaps you are also going to put Helenius ahead of Washington. After all, Helenius and Wash were much more evenly matched that Kow and Wash were, if Wash should be ahead of Kow, Helly should be ahead of Wash

And these guys treating Kow-Wash as 'old' ummmm, bruhs,well the most recent result in the series was Helly's win, yet that does nothing to keep him ahead of Wash like Wash is ahead of Kow??

All, I wanted to say is - you can use various principles, all consistent for themselves - and in spite of this you will end up with very different results
The mess is, when you try to operate with doctrines ...
In reality, the rankings with every system are unsure at a level, where the boxers may be well ranked inside a range of 4 times higher or 1/4 of the rating points, eg. BoxRec ratings

I empathize with the difficulty of formulating a set of rules which can and must apply to any situation. It is necessary to include such rulies as the oldest result is discarded when you have awkward and conflicting rock, paper, scissors pattern. It would greatly complicate the algorithm to differentiate between the quality of each win, whether it was a wide decision, a close maybe a highly controversial decision, maybe an out and out robbery.

We can consider the fights individually and make our own personal evaluation based on our own impressions but BoxRec has no such luxury. They have to apply the existing formula developed over years. It can produce some eyebrow raising results on occasion, that is the inevitable disadvantage of applying a set of rules without grace or favour.

The upside is one I value enormously, and that is the ratings produced are free from subjectivity and individual bias.

[BoxFrancis]

1.Fury - Ring Mag Champ

2.Wilder - 10 defences only beat by the best

3.Joshua - Solid defences of 4 titles, ko’d by Ruiz

4.Whyte - good wins vs top level fighters

5.Ortiz - takes 5th spot based on ability 2 good showings vs wilder, looks to be on the decline.

6.Povetkin - Former Champion , fought the best. Olympic gold 2004. Thought he did enough to win vs Hunter but could of gone either way.

7.Ruiz - Dethroned Joshua, split decision loss vs Parker ( I though he won the fight ). Who knows how the Joshua rematch would of went if he came in shape and didn’t loose focus.

8. Usyk - Purely based on ability, unproven at the weight. He will win a version of a world title. Shame we didn’t get to see him in vs Povetkin would of been a great fight.

9. Parker - Highly skilled , seems to lack that killer instinct. Good win over unbeaten Ruiz. Seconds away from stopping Whyte. Not the best showing vs Joshua.

10 - Kabayel - looks a really good talent. Young, unbeaten. Could of went for Pulev, Miller or Martin but Kabayel looks impressive.

[Heretic]

About this Helenius, Kownacki, Martin, Washington situation...

Styles makes fights. Washington is not good against the swarmer types. He does not have the skills, power and durability to deal with pressure guys like Kownacki and Miller.

Helenius on the other hand has all the three things needed for those types of fights. In the past Helenius has done very well against that types of opponents. Wins over Teper, Peter and Kownacki. Going 12 against Whyte and Chisora.

On the other hand Helenius is slow and does hes best work at the mid range. He's distance boxing is good but not great. I think he will always struggle against boxers like Washington. I doubt that he could win a round against guys like Pulev or shades of Ali

So how to rank these guys?

Not an easy task.

Discarding the matches between the four does not work since the resumes are so weak without them. All most every ones best wins are inside the group.

Just by wins I would say

Kownacki
Helenius
Martin
Washington

But the recent proof in the ring puts Helenius ahead of Kownacki... So I will go with.

Helenius
Kownacki
Martin
Washington

Helenius vs Martin would be good fight. I hope it will happen. Hard one to predict

[margaret thatcher]

That is what I call making perfect f@cking sense mate

[joshj909]

About this Helenius, Kownacki, Martin, Washington situation...

Styles makes fights. Washington is not good against the swarmer types. He does not have the skills, power and durability to deal with pressure guys like Kownacki and Miller.

Helenius on the other hand has all the three things needed for those types of fights. In the past Helenius has done very well against that types of opponents. Wins over Teper, Peter and Kownacki. Going 12 against Whyte and Chisora.

On the other hand Helenius is slow and does hes best work at the mid range. He's distance boxing is good but not great. I think he will always struggle against boxers like Washington. I doubt that he could win a round against guys like Pulev or shades of Ali

So how to rank these guys?

Not an easy task.

Discarding the matches between the four does not work since the resumes are so weak without them. All most every ones best wins are inside the group.

Just by wins I would say

Kownacki
Helenius
Martin
Washington

But the recent proof in the ring puts Helenius ahead of Kownacki... So I will go with.

Helenius
Kownacki
Martin
Washington

Helenius vs Martin would be good fight. I hope it will happen. Hard one to predict

Hard to disagree with that ranking.

Helenius Vs Martin or even a rematch Vs Washington would solve this and provide a good fight. Having faced all three, Kownacki should face someone else.

[candyslim]

Agree first and last but after a bit of dithering I put Martin ahead of the man that beat him, because it was a highly competitive fight, whereas Kownacki's defeat was a crushing one.

On the other hand Kownacki beat two of the four to Martin's one so I'm not going to protest about anyone having Kownacki ahead.

[Finkel]

It's my 4th attempt to post this message, I hope it's not going to get deleted again.

I'll be back to the board only if my original account gets unbanned, hovewer, probability of it getting done is lesser than getting infected by a COVID-19 causing virus.

I liked to maintain the rankings (I've made some other stats), doing stats, rankings etc is a good time killer when I have nothing to do and it's actually relaxing to me. Now, due to Coronavirus outbreak and panic (I'm in Spain) I have even more time and I'm bored most of time, but as I said, there is no way of my old account getting unbanned so I hope that someone, for example Finkel, will continue maintaining it. I will make my first and most likely last vote now. So bad that I got banned before the big things happened in HW, it could result in some decent discussions.

It was always much appreciated. I might have time due to the corona virus, but that probably also means there won't be any fights to vote on.

Anyway, I see there have been a few more people adding their top tens and top fifteens, so I have added them to the calculation. Though it seems we have a pretty stable top 15 now:

The (dagilechia memorial) Boxrec Forum Heavyweight Top 15:

1. Tyson Fury - 30(21) 0 1

2. Anthony Joshua - 23(21) 1(1) 0

3. Deontay Wilder - 42(41) 1(1) 1

4. Dillian Whyte - 27(18) 1(1) 0

5. Andy Ruiz Jr - 33(22) 2(0) 0

6. Alexander Povetkin - 35(24) 2(1) 1

7. Joseph Parker - 27(21) 2(0) 0

8. Kubrat Pulev - 28(14) 1(1) 0

9. Luis Ortiz - 31(26) 2(2) 0

10. Michael Hunter - 18(12) 1(0) 1

11. Oleksandr Usyk - 17(13) 0 0

12. Dereck Chisora - 32(23) 9(3) 0

13. Joe Joyce - 10(9) 0 0

14. Charles Martin - 28(25) 2(1) 1

15. Óscar Rivas - 26(18) 1(0) 0