The end of the Great White Hope: a historical not racist perspective

[oogiebe]

Talking about today's athlete's choosing other sports and yesteryear's HW's playing basketball are a completely different topics and frankly silly. Maybe Frazier and Tyson could've been running backs and chosen that path in order to get a proper education. Maybe ethey would have still boxed. Holy played football but he chose boxing. I'd bet he could've been a mean linebacker. Exceptions happen. Nothing is 100%. But I'd bet money that Tony and my point is 80% correct. American athletes have had more and more opportunities in other sports and as a means of attending college far more than their predecissors. Also here in the states, there are oodles of more organized basketball; football; and baseball programs for kids outside of what were one or two programs when I was a kid, namely little league; and PAL. Your constant reference to b-ball is silly. Million dollar pro sports contracts didn't happen until the late 1970's (baseball) and early 80's (football). Universaties weren't as open back then to minority athletes as they were beginning in the late 70's. Christ, the NFL wouldn't even think of using black QB's until the 80's with very few exceptions. In fact it's only the past couple of decades that miniority athletes are making inroads into the NHL. Disagree if you wish, but don't ridicule something you don't understand.

It's not a completely different issue at all. There are certain great HWs like the ones I mention. People talk about why we don't see any more of these American greats, and guys like you and Tony mention 'ball'. But if those guys like that wouldn't have been ballers anyway, it misses the point and can't explain why we aren't seeing guys like this still emerging. Of course you say no one is talking about guys like that being ballers, but then post this huge block of text about precisely that , fantasy world where they are doing other sports instead of boxing

Like a 747.

[margaret thatcher]

From the alternate dimension, Mike Tyson on the right, after taking up basketball and not becoming a top boxer. Clearly the rise of ball is stopping guys like Tyson from becoming standout hws

[Tony1244]

I'm waiting for them to say the reason they couldn't find someone to beat Ali or Liston was that there weren't enough boxing gyms and interest in Europe at that time.

Lolol 'they', as if I find the success of the wack ass 60s Euro HWs a matter of personal pride F@cking hell mate, those Euro wimps of the 60s would have or did all get their sh!t battered in by superior American beasts (who of course would now be star point guards LOL_

Considering how quick you are to think everyone's arguments must be natioanislm , and considering you came up with the infamous 'Americas hate' simply for arguing that Gerald Wash should be behind Helenius and Kownacki (lololol), you seen very eager to impute national and even pan-national bias to people and seem to think it's what dictates every opinion, if you really enjoy seeing that type of thing a forum like stormfront would have far more of this overly broad thinking

The great success of today's European fighters is a matter of personal pride for you, so I merely extrapolated the last 100 years or so must have been a tough time. Your salad days, if you will.

If you want to believe AJ and Fury would have had very easy fights against a 1973 Foreman or a 1967 Ali, drink up and enjoy your unproven fantasy.

I never chimed in on the Helenius, Washington, Kownacki debate. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you simply confused me with another post and you aren't a Chuck.

I rooted for LL against Mike Tyson. I like both Fury and Wilder; they both amuse me outside of the ring and entertain me inside of it. Unless I make a wager on the fight (Fury-Wilder 3), I couldn't care less who wins the rubber match. I do not want a disputed decision, or the fight ended by a headbutt. I will say that.

[margaret thatcher]

I take no pride in the success of Euro hws. It's not me winning the fights. And again, you are lumping hugely diverse areas into 1 box. This is ongoing with you, you think way too broadly. Take the Klits for example, I have no connection to Ukraine and slag them off all the time. And plenty of Russians hate Ukranians, and Brits have really nothing to do with Bulgarians, etc. There are just all sorts of these non-connections between Euro countries and I am actually a fan of vey few Euro HWs, maybe only AJ and Mak. I have ragged on the Klits for years too.

I have never said Fury and AJ would have an easy time with the likes of ALi and Foreman, jeez mate you are going off the rails.

LOLol you did chime in bruh. Go look, amidst that debate you but in and bring up this so called Americas hate. If that debate had nothing to do with it, and you just felt like getting totally random with mentioning that, then all the power to you :TU

The way it seems to work with you Tonster, is if people don' t agree with you on this basketball fantasy land argument, they are pan-Euroists who don't like the US, kinda strange tbh

[ewenhay]

I'm struggling to see why it's that hard for some to imagine guys like Holyfield or Tyson playing American football or baseball.

Or taller guys like Wilder etc playing basketball.

Have I missed something amongst this cluster fornicate of a thread?

[oogiebe]

No you haven't missed anything. Marge was focused on boxers merely playing basketball. A ridiculous point.

[ewenhay]

Like Alice through the looking glass down a rabbit hole

[margaret thatcher]

lol, I mention those guys doing sports other than boxing, but then get told no one is actually talking about that except me

We can just move on to Mike Tyson, homerun king, same arguments (holyfield did play football btw and wasnt that great)

I tell you one thing, Joe Frazier wouldn't become a swimmer in any day and age lol

[ewenhay]

Yeah but you're picking the most unlikely scenario and repeating it ad infinitum.

[oogiebe]

lol, I mention those guys doing sports other than boxing, but then get told no one is actually talking about that except me

We can just move on to Mike Tyson, homerun king, same arguments (holyfield did play football btw and wasnt that great)

I tell you one thing, Joe Frazier wouldn't become a swimmer in any day and age lol

LMFAO on Frazier! He nearly drowned on national TV!

[oogiebe]

Yeah but you're picking the most unlikely scenario and repeating it ad infinitum.

That's what he does. Let's him emoji away.

[margaret thatcher]

Doesn't change the core of the argument at all really, you can switch the sports around as you wish, of course leave it to pooey ewey to just chime in on petty things

[oogiebe]

Doesn't change the core of the argument at all really, you can switch the sports around as you wish, of course leave it to pooey ewey to focus just on petty things

I'm smelling some irony in this post...

[ewenhay]

[margaret thatcher]

I address it all bruh, the meat, the core, the crux, whatever you want to call it, plus all the petty matters you can think of . Ewey runs from the good stuff and just comes out of hiding for little short chirps on the least important stuff, I think he needs to work on his confidence lol

[oogiebe]

I address it all bruh, the meat, the core, the crux, whatever you want to call it, plus all the petty matters you can think of . Ewey just comes out of hiding for little short chirps on the least important stuff, I think he needs to work on his confidence lol

Isn't he the one who has the greatest 100 infinity thread in the history forum?

[margaret thatcher]

I think that's elmer with the greastest 100 thread, the one that 50 years from now will be on fighter number 75 lol

[ewenhay]

I address it all bruh, the meat, the core, the crux, whatever you want to call it, plus all the petty matters you can think of . Ewey just comes out of hiding for little short chirps on the least important stuff, I think he needs to work on his confidence lol

Isn't he the one who has the greatest 100 infinity thread in the history forum?

What is 100 infinity?

[ewenhay]

I address it all bruh, the meat, the core, the crux, whatever you want to call it, plus all the petty matters you can think of . Ewey runs from the good stuff and just comes out of hiding for little short chirps on the least important stuff, I think he needs to work on his confidence lol

[margaret thatcher]

Exactly my friend, exactly

[Tony1244]

I take no pride in the success of Euro hws. It's not me winning the fights. And again, you are lumping hugely diverse areas into 1 box. This is ongoing with you, you think way too broadly. Take the Klits for example, I have no connection to Ukraine and slag them off all the time. And plenty of Russians hate Ukranians, and Brits have really nothing to do with Bulgarians, etc. There are just all sorts of these non-connections between Euro countries and I am actually a fan of vey few Euro HWs, maybe only AJ and Mak. I have ragged on the Klits for years too.

I have never said Fury and AJ would have an easy time with the likes of ALi and Foreman, jeez mate you are going off the rails.

LOLol you did chime in bruh. Go look, amidst that debate you but in and bring up this so called Americas hate. If that debate had nothing to do with it, and you just felt like getting totally random with mentioning that, then all the power to you :TU

The way it seems to work with you Tonster, is if people don' t agree with you on this basketball fantasy land argument, they are pan-Euroists who don't like the US, kinda strange tbh

""" It's not me winning the fights."""

I like that line. It proves you're not completely insane.

Ok, we're both agnostic on how the past greats would do with the present greats. That's a start.

Call me insane but $20,000,000 sports contracts and free college may appeal to the minority community more than getting hit in the face. Europeans are less likely to have this option.

Also, you couldn't find a woman in America in 1940 who didn't know who Joe Louis was, or in 1970 who Ali was. Same with Tyson in 1990. Ask a woman, or man, in the US who Deontay Wilder is now. Good luck. If you don't see how this correlates with how many Americans box, I can't help that.

[ewenhay]

Exactly.

Imagine you're a talented athlete.

You get offered two choices.

A multi million dollar contract to go college, receive an education, meet lots of young women around campus and get paid for throwing and catching a ball.

Or

An opportunity to take your chances in the shark infested boxing game where you'll get punched in the face every day, only get good money if you reach the top few in the division and likely get dumped on the scrapheap if you lose a fight relatively early in your career.

You decide.

[margaret thatcher]

Those perks have already existed for decades and decades and decades, long before the US had great HWs, Ewey showing he knows nothing about it lol

[ewenhay]

As oogie explained further up the thread those opportunities weren't available until the early 80s.

And certainly weren't available to a kid in a detention centre such as Tyson.

Boxing will always be a way out for kids with nothing.

But it will always be a last resort for young athletes with options.

[margaret thatcher]

They were already there, you clearly know nothing about the situation yourself. There have been fame and money and education in those sports for a long time now