Sonny Liston (1963) vs. current HWs ?

[oogiebe]

We are all terrified. But you still don't answer my question. You obvious lack of courage means I win. LMFAO!

BTW: I've always felt that EO reminded me of someone and I couldn't figure it out. I did just now. Captain Queeg from "Caine Mutiny" as he became unglued at the courtmartial. LMFAO! I'ts spot on!

EO would never say, "I'd have no way of knowing."

True, but it's the behaviour.

[Thomastearns]

He talks about red herring arguments; he is the master of that. His "logic" is Liston never beat anyone who weighed more than 230, so therefore he couldn't have beaten anyone who weighed more than 230.

He doesn't like facts such as Liston's and Louis' best opponents, weren't their biggest opponents.

All people drink water. All people die. Water makes you die. That generally says it all for EO's logic.

Yes, generalisation and logic are easily confused, but they are not the same thing.

It's also known as 'jumping to the wrong conclusion', as many a policeman the world over has no doubt later discovered to his embarrassment.

[Ambling Alp II]

It's not just him; though look at the poll numbers some far. Only four people have number 1.

[margaret thatcher]

It's not just him; though look at the poll numbers some far. Only four people have number 1.

Nothing wrong with that at all, is it bothering you a bit alp that not everyone just defaults him to 1

[Ambling Alp II]

Only because it's pretty obvious. I have this crazy notion that ability actually matters. Only four people have number 1. 7 people actually don't think he would crack the top 8. We have gotton to that point. Just look at the scales, nothing more to think about.

[margaret thatcher]

The majority have him top 5, I rarely see people who say it's only size that matter. Saying just that size matters is fair and reasonable, not something that should be ignored

[oogiebe]

Opinions are fine. Most have him 2-5. At least no one else is going off the deep end saying Liston only fought CW's.

[margaret thatcher]

Opinions are fine. Most have him 2-5. At least no one else is going off the deep end saying Liston only fought CW's.

2-5 isn't enough god dammnit!! alp needs him #1 or else everyone is just an idiot !!!

[oogiebe]

Opinions are fine. Most have him 2-5. At least no one else is going off the deep end saying Liston only fought CW's.

2-5 isn't enough god dammnit!! alp needs him #1 or else everyone is just an idiot !!!

LOL! C'mon...he didn't say that.

[margaret thatcher]

Lol, but only 4 people have him #1! such an know nothing injustice! waah

[oogiebe]

Lol, but only 4 people have him #1! such an know nothing injustice! waah

I guess I'm an idiot then. I had him 2-5.

[margaret thatcher]

Lol, but only 4 people have him #1! such an know nothing injustice! waah

I guess I'm an idiot then. I had him 2-5.

Absolutely nothing wrong with that, only a true idiot would think so

Slick Cleveland Williams !!

[Ambling Alp II]

You have started at least three Cleveland Williams threads so far. Time for another?

[margaret thatcher]

You have started at least three Cleveland Williams threads so far. Time for another?

Hell ya bruh, I love myself some of sweet pea Willy , thanks for the suggestion , you have some good ideas when you're not moaning for a change

[Tony1244]

You have started at least three Cleveland Williams threads so far. Time for another?

If Cleveland Williams was fat and 245, some people would be giving Liston more credit. As others alluded to, some of the modern size difference is simply being fat!

[gilgamesh]

You have started at least three Cleveland Williams threads so far. Time for another?

If Cleveland Williams was fat and 245, some people would be giving Liston more credit. As others alluded to, some of the modern size difference is simply being fat!

In many cases that's exactly what it is.

Sonny Liston could've easily been 235 pounds, he just wouldn't have had as much stamina, wouldn't have been as fast...etc.

Having extra weight just because you can shouldn't be the goal, and to a select few. It's not.

[Tony1244]

If Cleveland Williams was fat and 245, some people would be giving Liston more credit. As others alluded to, some of the modern size difference is simply being fat!

In many cases that's exactly what it is.

Sonny Liston could've easily been 235 pounds, he just wouldn't have had as much stamina, wouldn't have been as fast...etc.

Having extra weight just because you can shouldn't be the goal, and to a select few. It's not.

How many really good big men have there've been so far? The 2 Klit brothers, LL, and Fury. Am I missing anyone?

[gilgamesh]

In many cases that's exactly what it is.

Sonny Liston could've easily been 235 pounds, he just wouldn't have had as much stamina, wouldn't have been as fast...etc.

Having extra weight just because you can shouldn't be the goal, and to a select few. It's not.

How many really good big men have there've been so far? The 2 Klit brothers, LL, and Fury. Am I missing anyone?

Jury's still out on how good AJ may ultimately prove to be.

Wilder I figure has hit his ceiling though he may still have a few significant wins in him.

[Tony1244]

How many really good big men have there've been so far? The 2 Klit brothers, LL, and Fury. Am I missing anyone?

Jury's still out on how good AJ may ultimately prove to be.

Wilder I figure has hit his ceiling though he may still have a few significant wins in him.

Yeah, I guess AJ is pretty big too. Wilder is big enough to compete with Fury and AJ. We all agree another division is moronic.

[gilgamesh]

Jury's still out on how good AJ may ultimately prove to be.

Wilder I figure has hit his ceiling though he may still have a few significant wins in him.

Yeah, I guess AJ is pretty big too. Wilder is big enough to compete with Fury and AJ. We all agree another division is moronic.

It would be a slap in the face to the whole history of the sport.

[Tony1244]

Yeah, I guess AJ is pretty big too. Wilder is big enough to compete with Fury and AJ. We all agree another division is moronic.

It would be a slap in the face to the whole history of the sport.

I know exactly what would happen. Some fat fvck like Ruiz or freak show giant like Valuev would be "Super" champion.

He'd have no chance in the ring against the real HW champion, but the idiots would think bigger is better.

[gilgamesh]

It would be a slap in the face to the whole history of the sport.

I know exactly what would happen. Some fat fvck like Ruiz or freak show giant like Valuev would be "Super" champion.

He'd have no chance in the ring against the real HW champion, but the idiots would think bigger is better.

Regardless of who The Top Dog is. He should always be known as "The Heavyweight Champion of the World"

Not Super Heavyweight. Not Strikeweight. Not any of that horsesh*t.

[Tony1244]

I know exactly what would happen. Some fat fvck like Ruiz or freak show giant like Valuev would be "Super" champion.

He'd have no chance in the ring against the real HW champion, but the idiots would think bigger is better.

Regardless of who The Top Dog is. He should always be known as "The Heavyweight Champion of the World"

Not Super Heavyweight. Not Strikeweight. Not any of that horsesh*t.

Perhaps the CW division limit needs to be increased slowly over the decades. But no more divisions and the Heavyweight champion is the lead dawg.

[gilgamesh]

Regardless of who The Top Dog is. He should always be known as "The Heavyweight Champion of the World"

Not Super Heavyweight. Not Strikeweight. Not any of that horsesh*t.

Perhaps the CW division limit needs to be increased slowly over the decades. But no more divisions and the Heavyweight champion is the lead dawg.

No. Cruiserweight has already been increased from 190 to 200.

All Time great Heavyweight Champions weighed less than what the Cruiserweight division is now. Leave it alone.

[Tony1244]

Perhaps the CW division limit needs to be increased slowly over the decades. But no more divisions and the Heavyweight champion is the lead dawg.

No. Cruiserweight has already been increased from 190 to 200.

All Time great Heavyweight Champions weighed less than what the Cruiserweight division is now. Leave it alone.

I would for now.