Is Muhammad Ali in Everybody's 'Top 10'

[oogiebe]

Who said SRL is top 10 P4P of all time?

Ambling Alp. Really? Should he be? Can we do a thread about him if he should be top ten all time when there were more deserving fighters?

That question is a far cry from you calling his career a farce. You can't keep moving the goal posts. Makes you seem like a troll idiot.

[Tony1244]

He should have had more longevity? Well he had a lot more huge wins than some quitters I know.
Sure he could have fought more often. If Leonard would 30 more automatic wins over stiffs nobody ever hear of, proved anything?
Quick rematches? Well if the guys he beat at welter would not have left the division they would have got quick rematches.

After 1982 his career was a joke? Well he did come back even though he had nothing to prove. Beat Marvin somebody or another. Had a draw with Thomas something or another. But yeah, it's not like he beat some stiffs from Panama that nobody ever heard of. Guess that is what the great ones do.

He didn't give Benitez a rematch.
He didn't give Hearns a rematch until 8 years later.
He didn't give Duran a rematch. Duran gave it to him.

His career was A FARCE after 1982. The ONLY GOOD thing he did after 1982 was to beat a FADING MARVELOUS when the fight was supposed to be, guess what year? 1982.

And he supposed to be top 10? Gimme a break!

Duran is a top 5 Lightweight of all time and SRL is a top 5 WW of all time. We all wish fighter X fought fighter B at a certain time.

[Duran1970]

I don't have Leonard in my top ten all time either.. nothing to do with hatred..would you guys have ray top ten if he rightfully wasn't awarded the Hagler fight or the Hearns rematch?

[oogiebe]

I don't have Leonard in my top ten all time either.. nothing to do with hatred..would you guys have ray top ten if he rightfully wasn't awarded the Hagler fight or the Hearns rematch?

Been through this many times before on other threads. I don't have him top 10 P4P, but he's not that far off.

[Duran1970]

With all the great fighters in the history of the sport I don't think it's that far fetched to not have ray top 10

[oogiebe]

With all the great fighters in the history of the sport I don't think it's that far fetched to not have ray top 10

Not at all. Doesn't take anything away from his skills and accomplishments either.

[elmersalsa]

Ambling Alp. Really? Should he be? Can we do a thread about him if he should be top ten all time when there were more deserving fighters?

That question is a far cry from you calling his career a farce. You can't keep moving the goal posts. Makes you seem like a troll idiot.

I have never called his career a farce. I have said that after 1982, his career was a COMPLETE JOKE and a FARCE.

Learn to have reading comprehension. Now you seem like a troll idiot.

[elmersalsa]

With all the great fighters in the history of the sport I don't think it's that far fetched to not have ray top 10

[oogiebe]

That question is a far cry from you calling his career a farce. You can't keep moving the goal posts. Makes you seem like a troll idiot.

I have never called his career a farce. I have said that after 1982, his career was a COMPLETE JOKE and a FARCE.

Learn to have reading comprehension. Now you seem like a troll idiot.

...and there you have it.

[Ambling Alp II]

Name me 10 guys who had wins over four different guys that were better than Wilfred Benitez?

Can anybody come up with 10?

[Duran1970]

Which four were better than Benitez

[gilgamesh]

To say that the great Sugar Ray Leonard is a top 10 of all time pound per pound could be that you're EXTREMELY BIASED, don't know the history of great fighters or is NOT A JUST PERSON.

There are plenty of boxers that should be DESERVING top 10 pound per pound all time in my view ahead of Leonard.

Guys like the great Tony Canzoneri is one. He should be ahead of Leonard miles ahead.

Archie Moore is another deserving great that should be top 10 in many writer's books.

Willie Pep. How can a man that has won 230 fights should be beneath Leonard? He did not fight stiffs all his life. He beat greats like Sandy Saddler and Manuel Ortiz. Should Leonard be ahead of him because he beat 4 greats? I didn't see a bantamweight whupping him? But a lightweight beat Leonard.

Joe Gans, Benny Leonard, Jack Johnson, Carlos Monzon, Bob Fitzsimmons, Floyd Mayweather, Jr, Joe Louis. They didn't beat 4 great ones. But, look at their resume. They were constantly fighting. They had more longevity than Leonard. They even beat more top contenders and champions than Leonard did. Some of them had more championship fights.

Did the great Sam Langford beat 4 great ones? Why he isn't lower than Leonard?
How about Muhammad Ali? How many of them he beat in his opponent's prime?

From 1977 to 1982, Sugar Ray was awesome. He only had 3 years of complete prime (1979-82). And he should be top 10? No way! His career after 1982 was a COMPLETE JOKE! You know what happened. Or do we have to revisit his career? Shall we?

Who said SRL is top 10 P4P of all time?

I say it. If he's not Top 10 he's definitely Top 15.

[oogiebe]

Who said SRL is top 10 P4P of all time?

I say it. If he's not Top 10 he's definitely Top 15.

See the earlier posts Gil.

[Ambling Alp II]

My point about Ray Leonard is that I think many people dismiss him from the top 10 without much thought.

As I have said, there are less than 10 fighters in the history of the sport who have beaten four guys better than Benitez, who is the 4th best fighter than Leonard.

Right away, that should put him in the running. elmer's usual BS aside, what is the real argument against him? What are are the specific criticisms?

[oogiebe]

My point about Ray Leonard is that I think many people dismiss him from the top 10 without much thought.

As I have said, there are less than 10 fighters in the history of the sport who have beaten four guys better than Benitez, who is the 4th best fighter than Leonard.

Right away, that should put him in the running. elmer's usual BS aside, what is the real argument against him? What are are the specific criticisms?

I'd bet there are more than 10 guys who had at least arguably beat four better fighters than Benitez.

[elmersalsa]

Name me 10 guys who had wins over four different guys that were better than Wilfred Benitez?

Can anybody come up with 10?

It's all relative. Not too many fighters fought lots of great fighters, but they were great in other areas, not quality of opposition.

[elmersalsa]

I have never called his career a farce. I have said that after 1982, his career was a COMPLETE JOKE and a FARCE.

Learn to have reading comprehension. Now you seem like a troll idiot.

...and there you have it.

Yes. The guy that doesn't have reading comprehension skills.

[oogiebe]

...and there you have it.

Yes. The guy that doesn't have reading comprehension skills.

[Ambling Alp II]

My point about Ray Leonard is that I think many people dismiss him from the top 10 without much thought.

As I have said, there are less than 10 fighters in the history of the sport who have beaten four guys better than Benitez, who is the 4th best fighter than Leonard.

Right away, that should put him in the running. elmer's usual BS aside, what is the real argument against him? What are are the specific criticisms?

I'd bet there are more than 10 guys who had at least arguably beat four better fighters than Benitez.

I don't think there this. I'm not just saying this off of the top of my head. I have looked at this pretty closely. You may be surprised by how few some greats have:

Monzon had two.
Pep had one.
Moore had one.
Duran had one.
Louis had zero.
Fitz had zero.
Gans had zero.

[gilgamesh]

I say it. If he's not Top 10 he's definitely Top 15.

See the earlier posts Gil.

If they're elmersalsa's posts I don't really need to.

[elmersalsa]

See the earlier posts Gil.

If they're elmersalsa's posts I don't really need to.

What do you mean, gilgamesh?

[gilgamesh]

If they're elmersalsa's posts I don't really need to.

What do you mean, gilgamesh?

I mean whatever comments you may have made about Sugar Ray Leonard's legacy can be disregarded as you speak from blatantly obvious bias.

[elmersalsa]

What do you mean, gilgamesh?

I mean whatever comments you may have made about Sugar Ray Leonard's legacy can be disregarded as you speak from blatantly obvious bias.

So, you are saying that after 1982, he had a great career? I don't know if you was around in the 80s decade when he was fighting, but he didn't do all that great after the retina issues.

[gilgamesh]

I mean whatever comments you may have made about Sugar Ray Leonard's legacy can be disregarded as you speak from blatantly obvious bias.

So, you are saying that after 1982, he had a great career? I don't know if you was around in the 80s decade when he was fighting, but he didn't do all that great after the retina issues.

He had one of the great wins of his career after 1982. He didn't have a great run after that exactly, but the win in 1987 has to be up near the top of his best accomplishments.

[Duran1970]

It wasn't a win.. a fixed gift