Lets Discuss - Tim Witherspoon v Frank Bruno 1986

[GPTM1403]

With or without Don King, Witherspoon didn't take advantage of his natural skills.

Can't argue with that really but I do think King's continual screwing over of Witherspoon confirmed his falling out of interest in being even remotely what he could have been.

[bigjack]

With or without Don King, Witherspoon didn't take advantage of his natural skills.

Can't argue with that really but I do think King's continual screwing over of Witherspoon confirmed his falling out of interest in being even remotely what he could have been.

Witherspoon had everything skill wise and was only let down by hunger and ambition at times

[THEBUTCH]

The Bonecrusher Smith loss wasn't a stamina issue IMO. Frank was miles ahead on points but got caught with a heavy shot that staggered him in the 10th and last round. Frank lacked survival instincts in those situations, not to mention Smith was a hard puncher who went all out for the stoppage once he hurt Bruno.

[Roco]

Do you honestly think Tim would have got a decent payday against Tyson? you only have to go back to the Bruno fight to work that out

I'd have more belief in the 'thrown' Smith fight, if Witherspoon went on after to produce devastating boxing displays, but he didn't, he boxed average at best and was out of shape time and again.

With or without Don King, Witherspoon didn't take advantage of his natural skills.

Remember that long undefeated streak he put together to get himself back in contention only to drop a decision against big foot Martin.,

[bigjack]

I'd have more belief in the 'thrown' Smith fight, if Witherspoon went on after to produce devastating boxing displays, but he didn't, he boxed average at best and was out of shape time and again.

With or without Don King, Witherspoon didn't take advantage of his natural skills.

Remember that long undefeated streak he put together to get himself back in contention only to drop a decision against big foot Martin.,

Look at the list of no hopers,past it opponents Bruno beat inbetween each title challenge,compare that to the quality fighters in the past that got one chance if they were lucky

[GPTM1403]

Look at the list of no hopers,past it opponents Bruno beat inbetween each title challenge,compare that to the quality fighters in the past that got one chance if they were lucky

I'd say that possibly held Bruno back, potentially too many fights where he was either bowling over guys or able to beat them with the same basic style, so he didn't make the development as as boxer to help him compete at the top level.

[bigjack]

Look at the list of no hopers,past it opponents Bruno beat inbetween each title challenge,compare that to the quality fighters in the past that got one chance if they were lucky

I'd say that possibly held Bruno back, potentially too many fights where he was either bowling over guys or able to beat them with the same basic style, so he didn't make the development as as boxer to help him compete at the top level.

It did,he never learned to grab when hurt,only managed that on one occasion against McCall

[forcefraser]

Tezzer Tim showed he was a level above Bruno. Just rode it out and gradually turned the key.

Old Frank was just not savvy enough to mix it with Tezzer over the hard yards.

At the time it gutted me but over time I reflect on it differently.

Time changes most things, including opinions. I mean who would still prefer a crack at Razzle rather than pornhub these days?

[polecateddy]

Look at the list of no hopers,past it opponents Bruno beat inbetween each title challenge,compare that to the quality fighters in the past that got one chance if they were lucky

I'd say that possibly held Bruno back, potentially too many fights where he was either bowling over guys or able to beat them with the same basic style, so he didn't make the development as as boxer to help him compete at the top level.

I think that's a good point. Bruno tried to bolt on a lot of skills right at the end of his career, which he could really do with at the beginning. The over protection didn't do him a lot of favours in the department. The extra stone of muscle he packed on pre Lewis and kept to the end of his career, although looking imposing, probably took away from him as an effective fighter.

I think the match making particularly in Bruno's case was shocking. Historically Duff probably did him a massive disservice by not finding better quality opposition between title tries. It's interesting that in terms of records, it hurts Bruno that the Mercer fight didn't come off, even if he might not have been good enough to win it. Likewise Hide - Morrison, Akinwande - Holyfield. Bruno, Hide and Akinwande needed more competitive contests - and I think that was their promoter's fault.

[GPTM1403]

I'd say that possibly held Bruno back, potentially too many fights where he was either bowling over guys or able to beat them with the same basic style, so he didn't make the development as as boxer to help him compete at the top level.

It did,he never learned to grab when hurt,only managed that on one occasion against McCall

And stopped throwing the kind of combos he threw against Witherspoon. Had he developed more down that line, than body building, there'd be more margin for debate about him overachieving.

[bennie]

Mickey Duff says that Bruno never displayed the ability to dig deep in a losing fight and turn it around, which is a pretty fair point although Duff had an axe to grind after Bruno left him for the other guy. Bruno did display real grit against Jumbo Cummings (copiously helped by the bell) and in his ABA heavyweight final with Rudi Pika in 1980 but that's about it. Nevertheless, he should have beaten the blubbery Tim Witherspoon in 1986 and even a 'lost' Mike Tyson in 1989, for which I will get panned. Tyson never looked worse up to then. Make no mistake about it, Bruno would have gone 15 rounds over and over again in the gym prior to those two challenges but Tyson and Witherspoon beat him on sheer brute strength in the end and that is disappointing. Oh well, he got there in the end.