Boxing myths

[Nile4000]

Folk don’t believe that Leonard ducked Pryor. I personally think it’s the truth. Forget the weight. Pryor was a lunatic and all wrong for SRL.

Tyson punching holes in the wall before Spinks right.

There’s also a story about Tony TNT Tucker and a cuddly bear...

Ray would've killed Aaron. So would Milton McCrory, Marlon Starling, and Donald Curry. And Saoul Mamby had a chance to beat Aaron as well. Great fighter, but not Superman.

[fizzjambo]

Tyson Fury schooled Wladimir Klitschko. Or that he even won clearly.

I think he won clearly but I agree that some people laughably make out that it was a performance for the ages, it's arguarbly the worst Heavyweight title fight I've ever seen.

Stand down! It wasn’t gripping but you’re forgetting the whole Chris Byrd / Fred Oquendo / John Ruiz merry go round of the mid-2000’s surely. Not that was truly desperate stuff

[Delta Jay]

I think he won clearly but I agree that some people laughably make out that it was a performance for the ages, it's arguarbly the worst Heavyweight title fight I've ever seen.

Stand down! It wasn’t gripping but you’re forgetting the whole Chris Byrd / Fred Oquendo / John Ruiz merry go round of the mid-2000’s surely. Not that was truly desperate stuff

I’ve just had a look through boxrec and some of the fights for world titles around that time aren’t great are they. At least some of them had knockdowns and clear winners. I like Wlad, I really do, but 00s and first half of 10s wasn’t great for heavies.

[Delta Jay]

I think he won clearly but I agree that some people laughably make out that it was a performance for the ages, it's arguarbly the worst Heavyweight title fight I've ever seen.

Stand down! It wasn’t gripping but you’re forgetting the whole Chris Byrd / Fred Oquendo / John Ruiz merry go round of the mid-2000’s surely. Not that was truly desperate stuff

I still think the worst is Martin vs Glazkov

[JC]

Wlad Ibragamov was dire

[banjo]

Just looked at the punch stats for Fury vs Wlad, I didn't realise it was that active a fight, apparently Fury threw 371 punches which is more than he threw vs Wilder in their first bout.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Just looked at the punch stats for Fury vs Wlad, I didn't realise it was that active a fight, apparently Fury threw 371 punches which is more than he threw vs Wilder in their first bout.

Yes, but many of those were flicking jabs that were well out of range and were never intended to reach the target.

Let's make no mistake, it was a dreadful fight, we will never know for sure whether it was Fury's tactics, or his out of ring problems, but Wlad really did almost nothing the whole fight.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Folk don’t believe that Leonard ducked Pryor. I personally think it’s the truth. Forget the weight. Pryor was a lunatic and all wrong for SRL.

Tyson punching holes in the wall before Spinks right.

There’s also a story about Tony TNT Tucker and a cuddly bear...

Ray would've killed Aaron. So would Milton McCrory, Marlon Starling, and Donald Curry. And Saoul Mamby had a chance to beat Aaron as well. Great fighter, but not Superman.

I find the idea that Leonard was afraid of Pryor pretty implausible, the guy took on Hearns at a time when he was absolutely annihilating people, and Hagler after 4 years in retirement - it just doesn't make sense that he feared Pryor who was the naturally smaller man.

[JC]

Also Dempsey having plaster of paris wraps vs Willard.

I thought it was that he had a bolt he held in his glove? And if you watch the tape he does hit with the side / thumb area

The plaster of paris story came from Doc Kearns and, if you look into it, doesn't really make any sense.

I've heard the railway spike theory too but never any actual evidence for it (also you'd think the referee would notice something like that when breaking fighters).

Seems most likely Willard's injuries were the result of a sitting target getting tee'd off on by a brutal puncher wearing 5lbs gloves.

[fizzjambo]

Wlad Ibragamov was dire

This was fornicating brutal.

[TheLeprechaun]

Wlad Ibragamov was dire

HBO banned him from their network for years due to that performance

[banjo]

Doesn't the Dempsey controversy come from his bitter ex-manager?

[JC]

Wlad Ibragamov was dire

HBO banned him from their network for years due to that performance

I think they'd been selling it quite hard too (the first HW unification in years).

[Delta Jay]

Just looked at the punch stats for Fury vs Wlad, I didn't realise it was that active a fight, apparently Fury threw 371 punches which is more than he threw vs Wilder in their first bout.

Yes, but many of those were flicking jabs that were well out of range and were never intended to reach the target.

Let's make no mistake, it was a dreadful fight, we will never know for sure whether it was Fury's tactics, or his out of ring problems, but Wlad really did almost nothing the whole fight.

That’s if you take compubox seriously in the first place, I know I sound a tit saying that but I just don’t myself.

Having said that, what’s the landed % for both fighters in that fight? I bet that’s the real low number.

[margaret thatcher]

Fury-Wilder 1 and 2 was low for output too, it's a lot with Fury and Wlad fights

There are plenty of stinkers that badl tbh, just that the significance of the fight makes it stand out i guess

[Delta Jay]

Fury-Wilder 1 and 2 was low for output too, it's a lot with Fury and Wlad fights

Fury Wlad was 86 vs 52. Wow.

I think Salido V Vargas 1 was about 340 vs 370 each, can’t really use them as a comparison tho

[jamesmcdonnell]

I thought it was that he had a bolt he held in his glove? And if you watch the tape he does hit with the side / thumb area

The plaster of paris story came from Doc Kearns and, if you look into it, doesn't really make any sense.

I've heard the railway spike theory too but never any actual evidence for it (also you'd think the referee would notice something like that when breaking fighters).

Seems most likely Willard's injuries were the result of a sitting target getting tee'd off on by a brutal puncher wearing 5lbs gloves.

As I recall it was Dempsey's disgruntled former manager started the story, claiming he loaded dempseys gloves with plaster of paris.

Willard's injuries were also never confirmed by an physician - and days after the fight reporters remarked that there was no evidence of any teeth missing and other than a black eye and a bit of swelling no evidence of serious injury whatsover.

Nat Fleischer, then editor of the Ring Magazine was present, and attested to the fact that not only did he not see any evidence of foul play, but that Kearns, Dempsey's manager wasn't even present when the hands were wrapped.

Willard was 37 at the time, was known to be slow of foot, pretty crude, and reliant on being able to use his size to batter opponents, and was facing a fercious puncher in his prime, there's no real mystery to him getting battered by Dempsey.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Yes, but many of those were flicking jabs that were well out of range and were never intended to reach the target.

Let's make no mistake, it was a dreadful fight, we will never know for sure whether it was Fury's tactics, or his out of ring problems, but Wlad really did almost nothing the whole fight.

That’s if you take compubox seriously in the first place, I know I sound a tit saying that but I just don’t myself.

Having said that, what’s the landed % for both fighters in that fight? I bet that’s the real low number.

If it was 20% for fury I'd be surprised.

The last time I saw that much feinting was when I watched a victorian melodrama.

[Delta Jay]

That’s if you take compubox seriously in the first place, I know I sound a tit saying that but I just don’t myself.

Having said that, what’s the landed % for both fighters in that fight? I bet that’s the real low number.

If it was 20% for fury I'd be surprised.

The last time I saw that much feinting was when I watched a victorian melodrama.

According to this website I’ve just found called “BoxRec dot com” they both landed at 23%. I wonder if there’s a fight what’s at 100%? Maybe that Tete 6 second K.O.

I think CompuBox stats are a boxing myth unto themselves. The guy who started them was on the Boxing Life Stories podcast and didn’t do much to convince me it was at all objective or accurate.

[margaret thatcher]

Gary Russell landed at like 9 or 10 percent vs Loma on compubox, seemed fairly accurate though I do question lots of compubox numbers. That's the lowest percent listed I've ever seen a world class fighter land at

Compubox had Wilder averaging like 17-18 punches a round in the fury rematch or something I think, was pretty low output there, even when Fury's aggressive guys outputs go down

[dookus]

If it was 20% for fury I'd be surprised.

The last time I saw that much feinting was when I watched a victorian melodrama.

According to this website I’ve just found called “BoxRec dot com” they both landed at 23%. I wonder if there’s a fight what’s at 100%? Maybe that Tete 6 second K.O.

I think CompuBox stats are a boxing myth unto themselves. The guy who started them was on the Boxing Life Stories podcast and didn’t do much to convince me it was at all objective or accurate.

I agree. It sounded as basic as it always has been and there's no correction for errors. Someone is surely going to find a better way of doing it soon.

[Delta Jay]

Their methodology is totally flawed, I always hate to be negative but this is probably my main boxing pet peeve.

It’s just two lads sat there pressing four buttons each; jab miss, jab land, power miss, power land with one operator watching one fighter each. If they’re ringside, they’re subject to the same crowd influence as judges. If they’re in a room, they’re not close enough to see properly (there’s an argument that TV cameras on mute would give you the best position) and each operator having a fighter each creates a bias in how each fighter is scored.

On the podcast I mentioned, the creator said that if he accidentally mis-scores a punch, he will make a mental note NOT to score the next punch of the same type. He then said “well at least I do” which means that different operators use it different. That’s too subjective for me.

I’ve tried to be a bit too clever there, but that’s been bugging me for a while. The biggest myth in boxing is punch stats

[jamesmcdonnell]

I think the highest I ever saw was around the 70% mark, not for a whole fight, in a single round, trying to remember who the fighter was, it was quite some years ago, I've a feeling it might have been Chavez.

[Nile4000]

Ray would've killed Aaron. So would Milton McCrory, Marlon Starling, and Donald Curry. And Saoul Mamby had a chance to beat Aaron as well. Great fighter, but not Superman.

I find the idea that Leonard was afraid of Pryor pretty implausible, the guy took on Hearns at a time when he was absolutely annihilating people, and Hagler after 4 years in retirement - it just doesn't make sense that he feared Pryor who was the naturally smaller man.

Exactly. Find the assertion that Ray was scared ridiculous.

[Onetimeonly]

I think the highest I ever saw was around the 70% mark, not for a whole fight, in a single round, trying to remember who the fighter was, it was quite some years ago, I've a feeling it might have been Chavez.

Bowe and holy tagged each other at crazy clips.

Biggest myth, women weaken legs.