Daniel Dubois vs. Joe Joyce - November 28, 2020 on ESPN+

[DrDuke]

Let's give Dubois a break here. The young man panicked clearly and was probably scared of a career threatening injury (you never know how these things go). I just hope he's back in good shape and to continue his career. Let's support the man, he can only be good for the heavyweight division.

Huge credit to Joe Joyce here. Apart from that granite chin, what gets me is the man's composure. He's always cool and composed both in the ring and outside it. He's a limited boxer but boy he just keeps coming and he like we saw yesterday, is supremely effective. The last jab that got DDD was brutal..so much power on it. Great weekend, and for the United fans here there's just one word. Cavani

Good points. Dub will come back for sure. Joyce deserves a huge credit, he proved many wrong, including myself. Joyce can keep boxing even in such tough fights, he's very durable both physically and mentally.

[morm]

He is young Dubois but broken.. he never come back... he is a quieter
No heart

[Ruthless-RKO]

CompuBox Punch Stats



Olympic silver medal winner Joe Joyce maximized his two-inch reach advantage by firing jabs that swelled Daniel Dubois' left eye by round four and had it nearly shut by the end.

A piercing jab to that injured orb caused Dubois to grimace, take a voluntary need and take the full 10-count, acts that led to Joyce becoming the new British, Commonwealth and European heavyweight champion.

This tense, tactical match was dominated by jabs, which comprised 79.6% of Joyce's total output and 61.7% of Dubois' -- far above the heavyweight average of 46% -- while also making up 78.4% of Joyce's total connects and 43.8% of Dubois' (much more than the 34% heavyweight norm).

Because Dubois mixed in more power shots (82-27) and connected more accurately in that regard (44%-24%), Dubois ended the fight ahead 146-125 overall, but the CompuBox round-by-round breakdown of total connects had the fight even at 4-4-2. Joyce was more active (59.1 punches per round to Dubois' 52.8) and led 51-29 in landed body shots but Joyce averaged 10.7 jab connects per round to Dubois' 7.0, and -- in this heavyweight fight at least -- the jab was everything.

[Bard of Boxrec]

He is young Dubois but broken.. he never come back... he is a quieter
No heart

I’ll tell you who should be ‘quieter’ - you !

[jamesmcdonnell]

Let's give Dubois a break here. The young man panicked clearly and was probably scared of a career threatening injury (you never know how these things go). I just hope he's back in good shape and to continue his career. Let's support the man, he can only be good for the heavyweight division.

Huge credit to Joe Joyce here. Apart from that granite chin, what gets me is the man's composure. He's always cool and composed both in the ring and outside it. He's a limited boxer but boy he just keeps coming and he like we saw yesterday, is supremely effective. The last jab that got DDD was brutal..so much power on it. Great weekend, and for the United fans here there's just one word. Cavani

Agreed, of all the takeaways about joyce, the most positive is his calmness under fire. He managed to ride out the power shots dubois landed, taking the sting away, and he never looked disorganised nor did he get dragged into a firefight, which would have suited dubois.

[DrDuke]

Again some bizzare punchstats.

[victor-romeo]

Unfortunately for him, I think Dubois probably made the right choice. May not be good for him long term psychologically as a competitor buy losing an eye for fight not really worth it.

Also big ko concussion probably coming next in that fight, to Dubois, which really would hurt his career and punch resistance long term.

Hats off to Joyce for being more rugged and having a great jab.

Also at 35 Joyce really could not afford to lose that fight, Dubois is 23 he can re group.

[ValMar]

Unfortunately for him, I think Dubois probably made the right choice. May not be good for him long term psychologically as a competitor buy losing an eye for fight not really worth it.

Also big ko concussion probably coming next in that fight, to Dubois, which really would hurt his career and punch resistance long term.

Hats off to Joyce for being more rugged and having a great jab.

Also at 35 Joyce really could not afford to lose that fight, Dubois is 23 he can re group.

X2

[cormack]

He is young Dubois but broken.. he never come back... he is a quieter
No heart

try google translate

[morm]

He is young Dubois but broken.. he never come back... he is a quieter
No heart

try google translate

Ok quiter....only 1 e

[dookus]

He is young Dubois but broken.. he never come back... he is a quieter
No heart

try google translate

Ok quiter....only 1 e

nearly there buddy

[DrDuke]

Kwittah is correct actually.

[geronimo]

Like i said (and the punchstats confirmed that), Dubois made the fight with the power punches. Joyce won due to the jabs, very strange situation. I can't remember a bout like that. Anyway, i hope Dubois will come back strong, he has some potential.

[Enlightened-One]

Like i said (and the punchstats confirmed that), Dubois made the fight with the power punches. Joyce won due to the jabs, very strange situation. I can't remember a bout like that. Anyway, i hope Dubois will come back strong, he has some potential.

Watson-Benn
Klitschko-Haye
Lewis-Tua
Fury-Chisora II
The list goes on-and-on...

We've even seen the jab successfully executed (as the primary weapon of choice) in MMA (i.e. St-Pierre-Koscheck).

Even dripping water wears away stone...

[lazboy]

Like i said (and the punchstats confirmed that), Dubois made the fight with the power punches. Joyce won due to the jabs, very strange situation. I can't remember a bout like that. Anyway, i hope Dubois will come back strong, he has some potential.

Watson-Benn
Klitschko-Haye
Lewis-Tua
Fury-Chisora II
The list goes on-and-on...

We've even seen the jab successfully executed (as the primary weapon of choice) in MMA (i.e. St-Pierre-Koscheck).

Even dripping water wears away stone...

Have to agree with old EO here. The jab is the most important punch in boxing.

[geronimo]

Like i said (and the punchstats confirmed that), Dubois made the fight with the power punches. Joyce won due to the jabs, very strange situation. I can't remember a bout like that. Anyway, i hope Dubois will come back strong, he has some potential.

Watson-Benn
Klitschko-Haye
Lewis-Tua
Fury-Chisora II
The list goes on-and-on...

We've even seen the jab successfully executed (as the primary weapon of choice) in MMA (i.e. St-Pierre-Koscheck).

Even dripping water wears away stone...

Man, they are different matches. In this match Dubois landed the majoraity of power punches. In the bouts you mentioned it's not, it's very different.

[Enlightened-One]

Like i said (and the punchstats confirmed that), Dubois made the fight with the power punches. Joyce won due to the jabs, very strange situation. I can't remember a bout like that. Anyway, i hope Dubois will come back strong, he has some potential.

Watson-Benn
Klitschko-Haye
Lewis-Tua
Fury-Chisora II
The list goes on-and-on...

We've even seen the jab successfully executed (as the primary weapon of choice) in MMA (i.e. St-Pierre-Koscheck).

Even dripping water wears away stone...

Man, they are different matches. In this match Dubois landed the majoraity of power punches. In the bouts you mentioned it's not, it's very different.

The primary weapon of choice employed by the victors in all the fights I listed, whereby the losing fighters were considered big-punchers, were jabs.

For instance, more than 70% of the punches landed by Lennox Lewis during the course of his victory over David Tua, were jabs.

Similarly, 78% of the punches landed by Joe Joyce during his victory over the big-punching Daniel Dubois were jabs.

If you watch the Benn-Watson fight, it’s abundantly clear that ‘The Dark Destroyer’ landed far more power punches than Michael did, but Nigel lost the fight because of the jab. The sheer volume of jabs that landed overwhelmed Benn.

Michael Watson also used to the left jab to drop Nigel Ben and force the stoppage. And coincidentally, the final punch that Joe Joyce landed that forced Daniel Dubois to take a knee and quit, was the left jab.

You originally claimed that Dubois went for power, but Joyce won due to his jabs. You also said that you’d never seen a fight play out that way, but it's not that uncommon.

And I listed fights whereby the winners had defeated big punchers, mainly because of their jabs.

If you disagree with me, that's fine.

[Enlightened-One]

This is quite interesting video, because it illustrates the thoughts of the cornermen and the physical state of each boxer between rounds, which is really difficult to ascertain whenever you watch bouts live.



From what I can tell, Dubois’ corner told him to move his head to avoid Joyce’s jab during the first couple of rounds, but he actively refrained from doing so.

And from the midway point of the fight, Dubois was slumped in his corner gasping for air, whereas Joyce was composed and breathing through his nose.

I didn’t detect any discussion between Daniel and his cornermen about the eye injury.

And when Daniel took a knee, he almost certainly couldn’t have known about the alleged severity of his injury.

Dubois has to learn from this defeat and improve on his boxing fundamentals.

He chose to forego the basics in preference to relentlessly seek for the stoppage, which resulted in him running out of gas. Daniel also allowed Joyce to land the jab at will, with the cumulative effect of those blows taking their toll.

And this is one of the problems that big punchers often face, because they become overly-reliant on power and forget the basics.

Put it this way, Paulie Malignaggi couldn’t punch his way out of a paper bag, but he compensated for his lack of power by elevating his boxing skills accordingly.

Therefore, I feel that if Dubois harbours ambitions to becoming a world-rated fighter, he needs a new elite-level training team behind him and also spend a couple of years learning his craft, because the Rock 'Em Sock 'Em Robots approach isn’t going to cut it against teak tough top-tier fighters.