what is the value of going rounds

[maverick23]

haye's power made him a wrecking ball, but in many many fights he boxes very cautiously and measured until he has the man hurt and going, which is harder to do vs a master journeyman with an iron chin

abdoul is one of the most durable, difficult to stop fighters in years. been the distance with numerous guys who were elite world level and could punch , haye prob just couldnt stop him like they couldnt. haye wasnt so gawdly that no one was capable of extending him at cruiser

Haye didn’t try and stop him. He barely threw the right hand and he coasted to victory without trying for the stoppage at any point.

That’s why they picked Abdoul - he’d go the 12 without posing any threat and Haye could claim to have sorted his stamina issue.

It was the worst main event I’ve ever seen in person and as Wales said people were walking out.

[THEBUTCH]

I've seen worse fights (not sure about main events)...they were leaving in droves for the Chisora v Avila "fight" at Wembley Arena

[olij999]

Agree with what Coco is saying, but NO fighter is intentionally doing rounds...no fight goes after hurting a fighter "shit" I need to do rounds, I better not follow up the attack.

I'd respectfully disagree with part of that. Over the years, I've seen a number of four-rounders and six-rounders on small-hall shows where a journeyman has wobbled a prospect and has consciously not followed it up. Or, on a few occasions, even knocked them down and not followed it up. One televised example was the Flintoff v Dawson epic. But I take your point that in a competitive fight, any fighter who is trying to win will follow up.

[stujones]

Agree with what Coco is saying, but NO fighter is intentionally doing rounds...no fight goes after hurting a fighter "shit" I need to do rounds, I better not follow up the attack.

Yes some fighters might sense and prepare for their opponent having a stamina problem and then start slow (e.g Mayweather vs McGregor) and some might not believe they can KO a grannet chinned fighter....but as Lloyd Honeyghan said "you dont get paid for overtime "

I agree in the main. You don’t get paid overtime so if the opportunity comes, take it. However. I went to Haye v Ismael Abdul. It was clear from pretty much the end of the first round that Haye was going into the fight on the back of criticism about his stamina and he was going to do the full 12. And he did.

I agree, but also it was the nature of the opponent as much as Haye's style - he knew as big a puncher as he was, Abdoul wasn't going to be shifted easily - so yes he had to fight differently to win the fight or at least seal the win.... similar to Lewis vs Tyson - Lennox knew he needed to go rounds to take leave Tyson less dangerous, so fought cautiously.

Think there is a difference between intentionally doing rounds and doing rounds because it is the best / only way you are going to win. For Haye I just think he simply knew he wasn't going to KO Abdoul, similar to Carl Froch vs Abraham.

Haye probably for the only time in his career, had to fight like Barry Jones needed to for all his career.

[stujones]

Agree with what Coco is saying, but NO fighter is intentionally doing rounds...no fight goes after hurting a fighter "shit" I need to do rounds, I better not follow up the attack.

Yes some fighters might sense and prepare for their opponent having a stamina problem and then start slow (e.g Mayweather vs McGregor) and some might not believe they can KO a grannet chinned fighter....but as Lloyd Honeyghan said "you dont get paid for overtime "

Many matchups of developing fighters are designed to give the young prospect rounds. Fact.

Yes, that's good match making - my point is, if the young prospect hurt the opponent he isn't going to be disappointed. They might say they are post fight, the matchmaker and coach might be - but if he wouldn't follow it up if he hurt him.

But yes, as stated with the Abdoul example (it is a brilliant example) the guy had one of the toughest chins / best defenses in the business. Brilliant match making and it might tactical sense to be cautious, cos Haye wouldn't have knocked him out in his absolute peak. But they also knew Abdoul was slow as anything, didn't pose much of a punch or offense - so a nice coasting points win was the best tactic - but if Haye caught him, he would have followed it up.

Exactly the same (although different outcome) for Mayweather vs McGregor - it was the perfect tactic of Floyd to "soak up" what McGregor had, fight with caution as he knew McGregor would be spent after 5 rounds. People say that Floyd showed a lack of respect to McGregor and carried him - I disagree, I thought Floyd showed great respect by utilising the perfect tactic.

[Coco]

Joe Calzaghe v Bobbie Joe Edwards

[mickey1975]

Agree with what Coco is saying, but NO fighter is intentionally doing rounds...no fight goes after hurting a fighter "shit" I need to do rounds, I better not follow up the attack.

Yes some fighters might sense and prepare for their opponent having a stamina problem and then start slow (e.g Mayweather vs McGregor) and some might not believe they can KO a grannet chinned fighter....but as Lloyd Honeyghan said "you dont get paid for overtime "

Many matchups of developing fighters are designed to give the young prospect rounds. Fact.

Yes, that's good match making - my point is, if the young prospect hurt the opponent he isn't going to be disappointed. They might say they are post fight, the matchmaker and coach might be - but if he wouldn't follow it up if he hurt him.

But yes, as stated with the Abdoul example (it is a brilliant example) the guy had one of the toughest chins / best defenses in the business. Brilliant match making and it might tactical sense to be cautious, cos Haye wouldn't have knocked him out in his absolute peak. But they also knew Abdoul was slow as anything, didn't pose much of a punch or offense - so a nice coasting points win was the best tactic - but if Haye caught him, he would have followed it up.

Exactly the same (although different outcome) for Mayweather vs McGregor - it was the perfect tactic of Floyd to "soak up" what McGregor had, fight with caution as he knew McGregor would be spent after 5 rounds. People say that Floyd showed a lack of respect to McGregor and carried him - I disagree, I thought Floyd showed great respect by utilising the perfect tactic.

Wow. Adam Booth was literally counting punches. As for Floyd..... he had zero respect, was just making it look good and earning money.

[mickey1975]

Joe Calzaghe v Bobbie Joe Edwards

He wasn’t bad, saw him get robbed against Michael Gate.

[Coco]

Joe Calzaghe v Bobbie Joe Edwards

He wasn’t bad, saw him get robbed against Michael Gate.

Remember JC had done everyone within a round or 2 so Duff stuck him in against a durable cruiser, not to get him beat but to give him rounds.
Of course JC did things at his own pace but it was still valuable for him in preperation for harder and longer fights down the line.
Good matchmaking and I remember Duff being really pleased.
JC had previously got rid of the likes of Karl Barwise, a fighter good enough to go a few rounds but as JC was so good he finished that inside a round too!

[stujones]

Probably the best example I can think of of someone doing rounds despite hurting a fighter is Lewis vs Tyson....again though that was because it was a tactic.

I do stand by what I say no fighter, okay will change to ambitious fighter, intentionally wants to do rounds and not take opportunities ...match making can mean going the distance is the best way to win, but if Haye had hurt Abdoul he would have gone for it .

[Wee Tommy]

Experience breeds confidence

Unless your opponent has been hypnotised, then you just crumble.

[coghaugen11]

Experience breeds confidence

Unless your opponent has been hypnotised, then you just crumble.

An absolute belter, wasn’t it, disrespecting Michael Watson and his harrowing injuries.

[coghaugen11]

The guy Mickey is clearly not right.

[Counter-puncher]

he isn't on about Watson you fucken retard

[Wee Tommy]

The guy Mickey is clearly not right.

Deary me

[Boxerbeetle]

he isn't on about Watson you fucken retard

Imagine not knowing that about Eubank’s career, what a casual

[maverick23]

Probably the best example I can think of of someone doing rounds despite hurting a fighter is Lewis vs Tyson....again though that was because it was a tactic.

I do stand by what I say no fighter, okay will change to ambitious fighter, intentionally wants to do rounds and not take opportunities ...match making can mean going the distance is the best way to win, but if Haye had hurt Abdoul he would have gone for it .

Haye would have likely gone for it if he had Abdoul hurt. But he did nothing in the fight to hurt him and the first thing he said post fight was that he’d proven he could go the distance. Abdoul had nothing for Haye to be worried about.

Haye may not have been able to put a dent into Abdoul if he’d tried to but he didn’t.

[margaret thatcher]

haye's power made him a wrecking ball, but in many many fights he boxes very cautiously and measured until he has the man hurt and going, which is harder to do vs a master journeyman with an iron chin

abdoul is one of the most durable, difficult to stop fighters in years. been the distance with numerous guys who were elite world level and could punch , haye prob just couldnt stop him like they couldnt. haye wasnt so gawdly that no one was capable of extending him at cruiser

Haye didn’t try and stop him. He barely threw the right hand and he coasted to victory without trying for the stoppage at any point.

That’s why they picked Abdoul - he’d go the 12 without posing any threat and Haye could claim to have sorted his stamina issue.

It was the worst main event I’ve ever seen in person and as Wales said people were walking out.

that's my point -- haye was known to often coast and fight super measured until he hurt a guy. but abdoul was super durable and very very tough to hurt. so if haye couldnt do that, well then he'd keep on with the same measured approach and hence lay the egg that he did

and of course when a guy doesnt get a stoppage, they often like to spin it as though doing the rounds was a positive, that's how boxers are. he certainly couldnt come out and claim that he actually ko'd abdoul and we just all missed it

[maverick23]

haye's power made him a wrecking ball, but in many many fights he boxes very cautiously and measured until he has the man hurt and going, which is harder to do vs a master journeyman with an iron chin

abdoul is one of the most durable, difficult to stop fighters in years. been the distance with numerous guys who were elite world level and could punch , haye prob just couldnt stop him like they couldnt. haye wasnt so gawdly that no one was capable of extending him at cruiser

Haye didn’t try and stop him. He barely threw the right hand and he coasted to victory without trying for the stoppage at any point.

That’s why they picked Abdoul - he’d go the 12 without posing any threat and Haye could claim to have sorted his stamina issue.

It was the worst main event I’ve ever seen in person and as Wales said people were walking out.

that's my point -- haye was known to often coast and fight super measured until he hurt a guy. but abdoul was super durable and very very tough to hurt. so if haye couldnt do that, well then he'd keep on with the same measured approach and hence lay the egg that he did

and of course when a guy doesnt get a stoppage, they often like to spin it as though doing the rounds was a positive, that's how boxers are. he certainly couldnt come out and claim that he actually ko'd abdoul and we just all missed it

The Haye at that time didn’t coast - he was known for steam rolling people and looking for an early knockout. 3 of his previous 4 fights had ended inside of 2 rounds and he’d only been past 4 rounds twice, one of which against Thompson where he went for the finish and gassed.

I genuinely think he just wanted to prove to people, and maybe himself, that he could pace himself doing 12 rounds. He barely threw the right hand against an opponent who offered nothing offensively.

[dookus]

Haye didn’t try and stop him. He barely threw the right hand and he coasted to victory without trying for the stoppage at any point.

That’s why they picked Abdoul - he’d go the 12 without posing any threat and Haye could claim to have sorted his stamina issue.

It was the worst main event I’ve ever seen in person and as Wales said people were walking out.

that's my point -- haye was known to often coast and fight super measured until he hurt a guy. but abdoul was super durable and very very tough to hurt. so if haye couldnt do that, well then he'd keep on with the same measured approach and hence lay the egg that he did

and of course when a guy doesnt get a stoppage, they often like to spin it as though doing the rounds was a positive, that's how boxers are. he certainly couldnt come out and claim that he actually ko'd abdoul and we just all missed it

The Haye at that time didn’t coast - he was known for steam rolling people and looking for an early knockout. 3 of his previous 4 fights had ended inside of 2 rounds and he’d only been past 4 rounds twice, one of which against Thompson where he went for the finish and gassed.

I genuinely think he just wanted to prove to people, and maybe himself, that he could pace himself doing 12 rounds. He barely threw the right hand against an opponent who offered nothing offensively.

You're right, and Haye even said after the fight that that had been his specific plan: he was under instructions to throw only three punches a round.

http://boxingtalk.com/Haye-outpoints-Is ... ous-affair

Those who had paid good money in the hope of seeing the current ‘Mr Entertainment’ of British boxing were left disappointed by a lethargic Haye performance. During the post fight interview Haye openly admitted deciding on only throwing a maximum of three right hands per round.

Confirmed by Booth a week later:

https://www.eurosport.com/boxing/britis ... tory.shtml

By Ant Evans: Since his December 2002 debut charismatic cruiserweight David Haye has earned a reputation as one of Britain's most exciting and pulverising punchers. However, when he topped the bill in Altrincham on July 21, the reigning European 14st 4lbs (200lbs) Champion bored and baffled in equal measure for 12 tedious rounds against Ismail Abdoul.

Limiting oneself to three right crosses per round may be a nice exercise for sparring, perhaps, but some critics - and I'm not sure that I'm not one of them - took this as further evidence that the pulverising power-puncher lacks the stamina to hammer at full tilt for very long.

Manager/trainer Adam Booth, who is as personable and honest in interviews as Haye is, disagrees.

He SecondsOut: "I've worked with David on a day-to-day basis and probably know him better than anyone and I know he boxed to a plan against Abdoul. And I should know - it was my plan.
...
"I was delighted that David boxed exactly to instruction. Now, whenever David may get into trouble or need a reserve plan in the future with an O'Neil Bell or anyone else, he will also know that he can go back to a different strategy and box patiently behind his jab."
...
Booth admitted: "I understand that David may have harmed his marketability a bit in the short-term but people in the trade realise that David Haye is not a boring fighter after purposely going the distance in one fight. There's a difference between knocking someone out and stopping him but, yes, David probably could have stopped Abdoul. But we didn't want to make any mistakes. We had an objective and we achieved it perfectly, exactly to plan."

So sorry, Maggie, can't agree. Haye deliberately did not attempt to stop him. Perhaps he could have, perhaps not, we'll never know.

[bennie]

I think the heat factor needs a mention with Haye vs Abdoul. It was stinking hot outside the arena and almost unbearable inside, Joey Maxim against Sugar Ray Robinson all over again.

[bennie]

Joe Calzaghe v Bobbie Joe Edwards

He wasn’t bad, saw him get robbed against Michael Gate.

Bobbie Joe Edwards boxed as Clive Edwards in the unpaid ranks. He represented England and tried for years to win an ABA title but it didn't happen. He was a bit unlucky to drop a decision to Tony Wilson in the 1983 ABA finals and was robbed of the decision in the 1990 ABA semi-finals against a Scot. Edwards grabbed the microphone afterwards and vented his frustration, which was the kiss of death for his amateur career. He turned pro later the same year. I believe he is related to Chris Eubank.

[mickey1975]

Joe Calzaghe v Bobbie Joe Edwards

He wasn’t bad, saw him get robbed against Michael Gate.

Bobbie Joe Edwards boxed as Clive Edwards in the unpaid ranks. He represented England and tried for years to win an ABA title but it didn't happen. He was a bit unlucky to drop a decision to Tony Wilson in the 1983 ABA finals and was robbed of the decision in the 1990 ABA semi-finals against a Scot. Edwards grabbed the microphone afterwards and vented his frustration, which was the kiss of death for his amateur career. He turned pro later the same year. I believe he is related to Chris Eubank.

It was said they were cousins. Cog will know, he’ll have been at his christening.

[coghaugen11]

Edwards was Diane Modahl’s brother.

He worked Eubank’s corner a few times.

[coghaugen11]

And yes, they were cousins of Eubank. Mica Paris was another cousin of Eubank.