How good were the Bobick brothers?

[Kalan]

Excuse me, but Norton, Knoetze & Tate weren't great punchers...

Actually Knoetze was a very hard puncher, just not a very good fighter. Norton and Tate were both decent punchers but very good offensive fighters who could put punches together.

A hard puncher and a great puncher are different concepts.

Barry Bonds was a great hitter, not only because he could hit with power and get the meat of the bat over the heart of the plate at the apogee of his swing... He could read the spin on the ball... He knew if it was a split finger, 2 seam, 4 seam, palm ball, or cutter. If it was going to rise, sink, cut in, or swerve away.. He knew if it was in the strike zone.. You don't need to be the best hitter in the league to be great -- but you need to be better than 99% of your peers.. People throw around the word great like it means good... If you're in the top 20% I want you on my team, but you're not a great player.

Joshua is a great puncher not only just cuz he can hit with power. He can get his jab on a good boxer. He has a variety of feints and combinations he can fool you with. You don't have to be a great boxer to be a great puncher, but it helps... At a minimum you need to get punches on John Tate and certainly on Mike Koranicki.. Knoetze couldn't do that.. He quit Boxing after 5 years and 27 fights.. He was very smart if not talented.. Clint said, "A man has to know his limitations."

[klompton]

Kalan will rip the Bobicks to shreds as dead end kids but then say Jack Johnson, Rubin Carter, and Sonny Liston (all antisocial thugs thoroughly guilty of the crimes they were charged with, and all of whom served shorter than deserved sentences) were unjustly mistreated.

[Kalan]

The case of Ruben Carter was based entirely on recanted witnesses who were not to be in the area at the time and admitted they lied in exchange to get favoritism from the Criminal Justice System for themselves. Any evidence against Carter was demonstrated to be manufactured and proven to be undeniably false.

Therefore Federal Judge Federal Judge H. Lee Sarokin, citing ''grave constitutional violations'' by prosecutors, overturned the triple-murder convictions of Rubin (Hurricane) Carter and John Artis on a writ of Habeas Corpus.

Writ of Habeas Corpus (which literally means to "produce the body") is a court order to a person or agency holding someone in custody (such as a warden) to deliver the imprisoned individual to the court, and to show a valid reason for that person's detention. Nobody could, therefore there was no cause to detain Carter and he was freed forthwith.

Johnson was convicted by the Mann Act…

The Mann Act is named after Congressman James Robert Mann of Illinois, and in its original form made it a felony to engage in interstate or foreign commerce transport of "any woman or girl for the purpose of prostitution or debauchery, or for any other immoral purpose". Its primary stated intent was to address prostitution, immorality, and human trafficking, particularly where trafficking was for the purposes of prostitution. This is one of several acts of protective legislation aimed at moral reform during the progressive era. In practice, its ambiguous language about "immorality" resulted in its being used to criminalize consensual sexual behavior between adults. It was amended by Congress in 1978 and again in 1986 to apply to transport for the purpose of prostitution or illegal sexual acts only.

Johnson was convicted of traveling over state lines with his white wife. If that’s a crime you can eat gas bubbles.

Liston came out of abject poverty and admitted his criminal behavior. He had no objection to prison which he roundly deserved. He was happy with it because he found his passion – which was battering people like Floyd Patterson unconscious. Liston was screwed by the Boxing Establishment in the Ali rematch. The neutral corner rule was not enforced by the referee and the Boxing Commission refused to address the injustice... Liston broke no rule himself... He was made the scapegoat in a mind boggling debacle of epic proportions so everyone else could cover their ass.

[ron4972]

Duane was no worse than top-12 or top-15 worldwide in terms of ability. He was able to secure a top-10 rating for two years, but I always thought there were roughly 9 to 14 other guys who could have beaten him. Bobick's high rating in the magazine and alphabet ratings was due to his big name and record. Possibly, at his very best, Duane might have warranted a top-10 rating based on ability, but that's iffy.

Rodney was a tough B-level fighter. At best, he rated top-20 worldwide, ability-wise. Rodney was a good, solid clubfighter, whereas Duane was a semi-world level boxer or borderline contender.

Interestingly, I think Ring Magazine had Rodney rated within their top-10 during 1974. But that was during the time that Ring's ratings were questionable.

[ron4972]

deleted

[sweetviolenturge]

Duane was no worse than top-12 or top-15 worldwide in terms of ability. He was able to secure a top-10 rating for two years, but I always thought there were roughly 9 to 14 other guys who could have beaten him. Bobick's high rating in the magazine and alphabet ratings was due to his big name and record. Possibly, at his very best, Duane might have warranted a top-10 rating based on ability, but that's iffy.

Rodney was a tough B-level fighter. At best, he rated top-20 worldwide, ability-wise. Rodney was a good, solid clubfighter, whereas Duane was a semi-world level boxer or borderline contender.

Interestingly, I think Ring Magazine had Rodney rated within their top-10 during 1974. But that was during the time that Ring's ratings were questionable.

Spot on, Ron. That's as good of an assessment of the Bobick bros as I've read here in this thread.

[Caractacus]

just came across this rare fight of Rodney Bobick on youtube.
March 1974.

[margaret thatcher]

someone should've told rodney that it's not illegal to block a punch

[Caractacus]

that was Angelo Dundee's job one I would think.
flash forward to October 1975
(Ken Norton wanted to fight Duane Bobick even back then)
BTW Rodney Bobick was Muhammad Ali's sparring partner and Holmes had become Joe Frazier's sparring partner at this point.looks like the Heat and Humidity got to Rodney Bobick more then anything-that and the rabbit punch there by Holmes at the end.

[margaret thatcher]

rodney actually put up a decent fight there for a while, larry was pretty sloppy and open in that one, tbh looked like he was half assing it to me

[Caractacus]

could have been the heat too.
BTW Check out this article on Rodney Bobick.

https://www.mnbhof.org/Rodney_Bobick.html

[Caractacus]

Both of the Bobick brothers were aggressive body punchers.
The original fight with Ken Norton was scheduled for March-2-1977
but while sparring with Rodney Bobick,
Duane Bobick suffered some torn rib cartilage
and the fight with Norton was post-poned to May-12-1977.

[margaret thatcher]

absolutely, for a guy as limited as roddy, vs an atg heavyweight champ, he didnt do all too bad there. sent the sweat flying off larry's head with some good shots and made him work...

obviously larry was still levels above, never said otherwise

[margaret thatcher]

finished at 25 years old, already with 44 pro fights.............wont often see anything like that again with the heavyweights

[Caractacus]

The main event started at 10:45 am,( to accomadate the closed-circuits in the USA.
so the Holmes Bobick fight must have been around 9 a.m

It was 110 degrees when Ali vrs Frazier fought in Manilla
and 28.000 people with their own body heat in the Coliseum.

Joe Frazier said when he tried to take in a breath it felt like going into a pizza oven.

[Caractacus]

I think it was Muhammad Ali manager who didn't want Ali to risk the title against Bobick.
BTW The poster you were responding to was banned from here several years ago, ( seemingly for some major differences in opinion to some of the more vocal posters here who apparently have some clout to who's opinions they object to)and I don't think
he will be able to read your response.

[Ambling Alp II]

Ali didn't look bad against Shavers in 1977; though he took that fight more seriously than Evangelista. He could still fight in flashes here and there. He would have taken Bobick more seriously than Evangelista.

I remember the Bobick-Norton fight as a kid. It was on primetime National TV during the week. There was a lot of interest in it.
Bobick certainly had his shortcomings, but a lot of people thought he was for real going into the Norton fight. He was ranked pretty high until that fight.

[Caractacus]

I just remember that Duane Bobick was the butt of jokes on the Johnny Carson Show for some time after that.
and also on SNL during the weekend news with Chevy Chase
something about a rash of muggings in Central park that month and they show a photograph of Bobick being blitzed against the ropes by Norton with his face in distress and agony
( who btw Chevy Chase had both Norton and Bobick for a ski on his NBC-TV special about a week before the fight.

[Caractacus]

Since any footage of Rodney Bobick is rare to see.
that looks like Rodney Bobick in the blue trunks with white strip at at 2;40 of this clip (?)

[Caractacus]

.
March 1974.

[Caractacus]

.