rhino222 wrote: ↑30 Dec 2021, 18:29
Wilder has a right hand chance against any heavyweight of any era. As did Foreman and as did Shavers. Im not saying he could land it, but if he did it could potentially put anyone away.
HW boxing is probably the most unpredictable division,
Who did he KO or KD that convinced you of that? Tyson Fury who goes down against cruisers? Or Luis Ortiz who's 40 or older?
He KO'd every man he faced, which is frankly insane. AJ was shocked how quickly Wilder put Breazelle away
Haye sparred him and called him the heavyest hitting heavyweight of all time. He knows what he's talking about. It's not just the power though, it's the speed of that right hand
Yeah Haye also said going at Wilder was a crazy strategy because of that INSANE POWER even though that's obviously the best way to beat him because he has no defence, Haye is charitable to his friends
The narrative of 'knocked out everybody he faced' comes with a huge asterisk because they had to drag obese stiverne back into the ring for that to be true, and he's never knocked out a fighter with a record of durability, Stiverne took many flush bombs in the first fight when he was actually somewhat in shape, smoke and mirrors
Last edited by GreenLightning on 31 Dec 2021, 11:13, edited 1 time in total.
margaret thatcher wrote: ↑30 Dec 2021, 11:34
bermane stiverne and dom breazeale are wilder's 2nd and 3rd best opponents beaten, he obviously had some great gifts but dude beat very little of quality
ppl called breazeale a soft first defense for 2.5 year pro aj, and aj of course won easily. then wilder beats the same guy after 11 years pro and it gets hyped and is one of his best wins lol
I think folks were hyped over Wilder's ko over Breazeale due to the utter shock of that super impactful one shot in the very first round.
And people forget that Breazeale ran onto that shot because he just hurt Wilder with his eyes closed
He caught him in the corner during an exchange, but saying he was hurt is a bit of a reach.
Uh a bit of a reach?? Wilder caught Breazeale and then ran at him, Breazeale threw a desperation punch with his head down and eyes closed, caught Wilder and knocked him back shaking his legs, watch it again, he was hurt, Breazeale then runs chin first onto the KO punch
GreenLightning wrote: ↑31 Dec 2021, 11:15
Uh a bit of a reach?? Wilder caught Breazeale and then ran at him, Breazeale threw a desperation punch with his head down and eyes closed, caught Wilder and knocked him back shaking his legs, watch it again, he was hurt, Breazeale then runs chin first onto the KO punch
Who did he KO or KD that convinced you of that? Tyson Fury who goes down against cruisers? Or Luis Ortiz who's 40 or older?
Are you claiming Wilder is not a big puncher? He is the biggest 'one blow merchant' in the heavyweight division at present. My claim is that he would have a punchers chance against anyone, Im not claiming he would outbox anyone, his boxing skills are below average at best. His power is top notch and his heart is decent.
Would he have a punchers chance with a young Oliver McCall or Ray Mercer. Nope! Lol I kind of wonder now he’s been found out and the confidence has gone, whether Wilder will ever win a fight again?
Yes, despite their iron chins he potentially could. McCall went into an utter shell when Bruno tagged him early. Lennox also backed off punishing McCall in their second fight. Outside of that McCall hasn't fought huge punchers. Mercer was stopped a couple of times past his prime and in his prime he lost to Jesse Ferguson in a fight he tried to bribe his opponent to stop trying
Those aside, Wilder would stand a good shot at the unfocused versions of Lennox that lost to McCall and Rahman. He'd be a big favourite for me to score the KO against Moorer, Hide, Akinwande, Morrison, Bruno, Rudduck. Bowe had a very good chin but his attitude of walking straight onto shots may not play out too well against Wilder. Bowe's chin was also a little untested not going in with the biggest hitters.
Are you claiming Wilder is not a big puncher? He is the biggest 'one blow merchant' in the heavyweight division at present. My claim is that he would have a punchers chance against anyone, Im not claiming he would outbox anyone, his boxing skills are below average at best. His power is top notch and his heart is decent.
Would he have a punchers chance with a young Oliver McCall or Ray Mercer. Nope! Lol I kind of wonder now he’s been found out and the confidence has gone, whether Wilder will ever win a fight again?
Yes, despite their iron chins he potentially could. McCall went into an utter shell when Bruno tagged him early. Lennox also backed off punishing McCall in their second fight. Outside of that McCall hasn't fought huge punchers. Mercer was stopped a couple of times past his prime and in his prime he lost to Jesse Ferguson in a fight he tried to bribe his opponent to stop trying
Those aside, Wilder would stand a good shot at the unfocused versions of Lennox that lost to McCall and Rahman. He'd be a big favourite for me to score the KO against Moorer, Hide, Akinwande, Morrison, Bruno, Rudduck. Bowe had a very good chin but his attitude of walking straight onto shots may not play out too well against Wilder. Bowe's chin was also a little untested not going in with the biggest hitters.
Would he have a punchers chance with a young Oliver McCall or Ray Mercer. Nope! Lol I kind of wonder now he’s been found out and the confidence has gone, whether Wilder will ever win a fight again?
Yes, despite their iron chins he potentially could. McCall went into an utter shell when Bruno tagged him early. Lennox also backed off punishing McCall in their second fight. Outside of that McCall hasn't fought huge punchers. Mercer was stopped a couple of times past his prime and in his prime he lost to Jesse Ferguson in a fight he tried to bribe his opponent to stop trying
Those aside, Wilder would stand a good shot at the unfocused versions of Lennox that lost to McCall and Rahman. He'd be a big favourite for me to score the KO against Moorer, Hide, Akinwande, Morrison, Bruno, Rudduck. Bowe had a very good chin but his attitude of walking straight onto shots may not play out too well against Wilder. Bowe's chin was also a little untested not going in with the biggest hitters.
Some good points here.
Apart from the fact Wilder has spent his entire career feasting on the type of B and C level fighters David Tua would bounce left hooks off for fun. There’s no evidence Wilder can cope with that very long list of handy fighters. Everyone of them would be out boxing him. Is he by chance scoring a come from behind win in each and every fantasy match?
Are you claiming Wilder is not a big puncher? He is the biggest 'one blow merchant' in the heavyweight division at present. My claim is that he would have a punchers chance against anyone, Im not claiming he would outbox anyone, his boxing skills are below average at best. His power is top notch and his heart is decent.
Would he have a punchers chance with a young Oliver McCall or Ray Mercer. Nope! Lol I kind of wonder now he’s been found out and the confidence has gone, whether Wilder will ever win a fight again?
Yes, despite their iron chins he potentially could. McCall went into an utter shell when Bruno tagged him early. Lennox also backed off punishing McCall in their second fight. Outside of that McCall hasn't fought huge punchers. Mercer was stopped a couple of times past his prime and in his prime he lost to Jesse Ferguson in a fight he tried to bribe his opponent to stop trying
Those aside, Wilder would stand a good shot at the unfocused versions of Lennox that lost to McCall and Rahman. He'd be a big favourite for me to score the KO against Moorer, Hide, Akinwande, Morrison, Bruno, Rudduck. Bowe had a very good chin but his attitude of walking straight onto shots may not play out too well against Wilder. Bowe's chin was also a little untested not going in with the biggest hitters.
Absolutely insane post. Wilder has beaten nobody and has been protected and yet now he's mopping up Lewis and Bowe and knocking out McCall and Mercer.
You have to be really, really susceptible to hype to believe this sort of stuff.
Would he have a punchers chance with a young Oliver McCall or Ray Mercer. Nope! Lol I kind of wonder now he’s been found out and the confidence has gone, whether Wilder will ever win a fight again?
Yes, despite their iron chins he potentially could. McCall went into an utter shell when Bruno tagged him early. Lennox also backed off punishing McCall in their second fight. Outside of that McCall hasn't fought huge punchers. Mercer was stopped a couple of times past his prime and in his prime he lost to Jesse Ferguson in a fight he tried to bribe his opponent to stop trying
Those aside, Wilder would stand a good shot at the unfocused versions of Lennox that lost to McCall and Rahman. He'd be a big favourite for me to score the KO against Moorer, Hide, Akinwande, Morrison, Bruno, Rudduck. Bowe had a very good chin but his attitude of walking straight onto shots may not play out too well against Wilder. Bowe's chin was also a little untested not going in with the biggest hitters.
Would he have a punchers chance with a young Oliver McCall or Ray Mercer. Nope! Lol I kind of wonder now he’s been found out and the confidence has gone, whether Wilder will ever win a fight again?
Yes, despite their iron chins he potentially could. McCall went into an utter shell when Bruno tagged him early. Lennox also backed off punishing McCall in their second fight. Outside of that McCall hasn't fought huge punchers. Mercer was stopped a couple of times past his prime and in his prime he lost to Jesse Ferguson in a fight he tried to bribe his opponent to stop trying
Those aside, Wilder would stand a good shot at the unfocused versions of Lennox that lost to McCall and Rahman. He'd be a big favourite for me to score the KO against Moorer, Hide, Akinwande, Morrison, Bruno, Rudduck. Bowe had a very good chin but his attitude of walking straight onto shots may not play out too well against Wilder. Bowe's chin was also a little untested not going in with the biggest hitters.
Absolutely insane post. Wilder has beaten nobody and has been protected and yet now he's mopping up Lewis and Bowe and knocking out McCall and Mercer.
You have to be really, really susceptible to hype to believe this sort of stuff.
wilder no doubt has a padded record, you know it when guys like bermane the blob and big dom are among his very best guys beaten, but hes a bigger puncher than mccall and rahman
margaret thatcher wrote: ↑31 Dec 2021, 17:04
wilder no doubt has a padded record, you know it when guys like bermane the blob and big dom are among his very best guys beaten, but hes a bigger puncher than mccall and rahman
It’s a bit academic as if you can’t hit the target it doesn’t really matter. A bit like only having a big serve in tennis and not much else.
Would he have a punchers chance with a young Oliver McCall or Ray Mercer. Nope! Lol I kind of wonder now he’s been found out and the confidence has gone, whether Wilder will ever win a fight again?
Yes, despite their iron chins he potentially could. McCall went into an utter shell when Bruno tagged him early. Lennox also backed off punishing McCall in their second fight. Outside of that McCall hasn't fought huge punchers. Mercer was stopped a couple of times past his prime and in his prime he lost to Jesse Ferguson in a fight he tried to bribe his opponent to stop trying
Those aside, Wilder would stand a good shot at the unfocused versions of Lennox that lost to McCall and Rahman. He'd be a big favourite for me to score the KO against Moorer, Hide, Akinwande, Morrison, Bruno, Rudduck. Bowe had a very good chin but his attitude of walking straight onto shots may not play out too well against Wilder. Bowe's chin was also a little untested not going in with the biggest hitters.
Absolutely insane post. Wilder has beaten nobody and has been protected and yet now he's mopping up Lewis and Bowe and knocking out McCall and Mercer.
You have to be really, really susceptible to hype to believe this sort of stuff.
You can only laugh.
There's a reading comprehension problem here. I said he could potentially KO McCall and Rahman, not that he definitely would. I said he could potentially KO Lewis or Bowe, especially the Lennox who showed up against Rahman or McCall. Wilder is a damn site more dangerous than Rahman or McCall
Outside of Holyfield Bowe was heavily protected himself and his resume is pretty weak. He also had an incredibly porous defense and Wilder would chin check him. Whether he passes that test we have no idea. Bowe could certainly batter Wilder on the inside if he can take Wilder's power
Yes, despite their iron chins he potentially could. McCall went into an utter shell when Bruno tagged him early. Lennox also backed off punishing McCall in their second fight. Outside of that McCall hasn't fought huge punchers. Mercer was stopped a couple of times past his prime and in his prime he lost to Jesse Ferguson in a fight he tried to bribe his opponent to stop trying
Those aside, Wilder would stand a good shot at the unfocused versions of Lennox that lost to McCall and Rahman. He'd be a big favourite for me to score the KO against Moorer, Hide, Akinwande, Morrison, Bruno, Rudduck. Bowe had a very good chin but his attitude of walking straight onto shots may not play out too well against Wilder. Bowe's chin was also a little untested not going in with the biggest hitters.
Absolutely insane post. Wilder has beaten nobody and has been protected and yet now he's mopping up Lewis and Bowe and knocking out McCall and Mercer.
You have to be really, really susceptible to hype to believe this sort of stuff.
You can only laugh.
There's a reading comprehension problem here. I said he could potentially KO McCall and Rahman, not that he definitely would. I said he could potentially KO Lewis or Bowe, especially the Lennox who showed up against Rahman or McCall. Wilder is a damn site more dangerous than Rahman or McCall
Outside of Holyfield Bowe was heavily protected himself and his resume is pretty weak. He also had an incredibly porous defense and Wilder would chin check him. Whether he passes that test we have no idea. Bowe could certainly batter Wilder on the inside if he can take Wilder's power
You’re actually doubling down on this stuff. As a percentage, what would you say is the percentage chance of Wilder knocking out Oliver McCall?
I’m not really going to entertain the Lewis stuff. I would say a good example of what a fighter the calibre of Lewis did to fighters woefully lacking fundamental skills would be Lewis versus Michael Grant. Wilder would have been murdered. End of!
This stuff about Bowe is really way off the mark. He was a top line guy. And certainly for a while the best heavyweight on the planet. Watch him school an undefeated, plus very durable Larry Donald for example. A fighter who at the time was regarded as potentially having the best jab in the division. As per Lewis v Grant, Bowe would have had one of his easiest nights demo-ing a range of skills Wilder has never had, nor will ever have.
His opponents haven't been up to much, but to turn lights off the way he does is insane. I'd've though AJ would have had a near indentical KO ratio against Wilder's opponents, but to put them down like that? It's rare talent.
He's pretty poor in most other areas, though.
dan28uk wrote: ↑01 Jan 2022, 18:41
i’m sure i’ve read somewhere that bowe said he was nearly out on his feet against herbie hide
a) Bowe was past his best v Hide
b) Hide was a huge puncher
If you watch it Bowe was stung a few times, but no more than that. I might be wrong, but in the pro's I think he was only floored once, in Holyfield 3. He then got up and ran over Holyfield in 8 rounds. I think in either Boxing Monthly or Boxing News they described Bowe like an unstoppable juggernaut post-knockdown. Holyfield rates Bowe above Lewis for what it's worth.
Last edited by polecateddy on 01 Jan 2022, 19:03, edited 2 times in total.
dan28uk wrote: ↑01 Jan 2022, 18:41
i’m sure i’ve read somewhere that bowe said he was nearly out on his feet against herbie hide
a) Bowe was past his best v Hide
b) Hide was a huge puncher
If you watch it Bowe was stung a few times, but no more than that. I might be wrong, but in the pro's I think he was only floored once, in Holyfield 3. Then got up and ran over Holyfield in 8 rounds. Holyfield rates Bowe above Lewis for what it's worth.
I think it's a common thing for fighters to praise someone who they have beaten
dan28uk wrote: ↑01 Jan 2022, 18:41
i’m sure i’ve read somewhere that bowe said he was nearly out on his feet against herbie hide
a) Bowe was past his best v Hide
b) Hide was a huge puncher
If you watch it Bowe was stung a few times, but no more than that. I might be wrong, but in the pro's I think he was only floored once, in Holyfield 3. Then got up and ran over Holyfield in 8 rounds. Holyfield rates Bowe above Lewis for what it's worth.
I think it's a common thing for fighters to praise someone who they have beaten
Still he did stop Holyfield, that did actually happen.
a) Bowe was past his best v Hide
b) Hide was a huge puncher
If you watch it Bowe was stung a few times, but no more than that. I might be wrong, but in the pro's I think he was only floored once, in Holyfield 3. Then got up and ran over Holyfield in 8 rounds. Holyfield rates Bowe above Lewis for what it's worth.
I think it's a common thing for fighters to praise someone who they have beaten
Still he did stop Holyfield, that did actually happen.
Lewis probably could have too but fought too cautious
I think it's a common thing for fighters to praise someone who they have beaten
Still he did stop Holyfield, that did actually happen.
Lewis probably could have too but fought too cautious
Holyfield got KOd brawling with Bowe, Bowe got KD brawling with Holy. Lewis knew better than to plant his feet and brawl with Holyfield, because he would end up flat on his back. Lewis had no inside game and was not suited to exhanging punches up-close with someone like Holyfield. There's no evidence from the two fights to suggest Lewis could ever stop Holyfield, the only time he buzzed him was in the 3rd Rd of the first fight with an illegal punch to the back of the head.
