How Can Fury Call Himself An ATG Heavyweight When He’s Not Even The Greatest Heavyweight Now????

[Kronkpride]

Fury is most definitely an all time great. Wlad had an 18 title defense streak going when Fury went on the road and beat him as the opponent. Wilder had a 10 title defense streak going and Fury again beat him on the road as the opponent. Wilder's streak should have ended at 7 though as Fury did enough to win the first time.

Who else has ever beaten 2 long reigning champions in order to capture every single belt there is? Wlad was the best boxer of his generation and Fury schooled him completely. Wilder was the hardest hitter of his generation and Fury bulldozed his arse and outpowered him.

I want to see the Fury fight vs the winner of AJ and Usyk and also think it would greatly enhance Fury's legacy. But even without it Fury is one of the very best HW's of all time. His size and skill set is unmatched in history. The only flaw he has is not having an absolute iron jaw but he does have a decent beard. He can be beat by the right shot at the right time but reality is there is no man who has ever boxed that Fury could not beat. He's the best really big man ever to lace them up. So many of the smaller greats would get manhandled and schooled by him. They would all be like Wilder and dependent on landing the one perfect shot otherwise they are going to lose. Fury is the man.

[HomicideHenry]

I always point out that because of his size combined with his athleticism and ring IQ and skills and conditioning, no he will never win a body beautiful contest but he can either box or brawl for 12 whole rounds if he has to, that Tyson Fury would be a difficult assignment for any heavyweight in boxing history.

Here is a guy standing nearly 7 ft tall weighing over 260 lb who basically moves like a cruiserweight. Here is a man who can dig down deep getting knocked down only to come back to win. Here is a man who never made it to the Olympics but defeated not only a bronze medalist but a gold medalist in the pros.

In the boxers of the past forum I made the argument that if Muhammad Ali is the measuring stick by which all other heavyweights are compared, one has to look at the fact that Muhammad Ali never fought anyone who was a combination of immense size, skills, power, ring IQ, speed, and endurance.

He fought men who had great skills, he fought men who were hard hitters, he fought men who were tall, he fought men who were heavy, but he never fought anyone who was a combination of all of those things.

Therefore I'm not so sure how well Ali would have done against Lennox Lewis, the Klitschko brothers, or Tyson Fury. Don't get me wrong it would be a tough assignment no doubt about it, but I think a guy like Tyson Fury would negate a lot of Ali's strengths.

That being said I do think Larry Holmes, Lennox Lewis, and Foreman would have been problematic for Tyson Fury. Larry could do everything Ali did but better and could also be an aggressive fighter too. Lewis was technically superior and hit harder than Fury. Foreman was a bit better than Wilder technically and could take a better punch as well. I would also put the elder Klitschko brother as an honorary mention of somebody who would give Tyson Fury problems.

Jesus Christ Almighty God bless you all

[KiwiRider]

So Fury wins one half of his semi-final and is just going to peace out?

I like Fury, but his resume isn't deep enough without the undisputed fight

At the very minimum.
ATG rule the roost, they are the undeniable champions.
Fury is only that by conjecture, not by deeds.

[margaret thatcher]

exactly, erase all doubt and win the undisputed fight

you gotta actually fight the fights, not just have your fans say you win them on paper

if he doesn't fight the aj-usyk 2 winner, he hasnt cleaned out the division and there'll always be questions on him being the king.

[bigjack]

Fury is most definitely an all time great. Wlad had an 18 title defense streak going when Fury went on the road and beat him as the opponent. Wilder had a 10 title defense streak going and Fury again beat him on the road as the opponent. Wilder's streak should have ended at 7 though as Fury did enough to win the first time.

Who else has ever beaten 2 long reigning champions in order to capture every single belt there is? Wlad was the best boxer of his generation and Fury schooled him completely. Wilder was the hardest hitter of his generation and Fury bulldozed his arse and outpowered him.

I want to see the Fury fight vs the winner of AJ and Usyk and also think it would greatly enhance Fury's legacy. But even without it Fury is one of the very best HW's of all time. His size and skill set is unmatched in history. The only flaw he has is not having an absolute iron jaw but he does have a decent beard. He can be beat by the right shot at the right time but reality is there is no man who has ever boxed that Fury could not beat. He's the best really big man ever to lace them up. So many of the smaller greats would get manhandled and schooled by him. They would all be like Wilder and dependent on landing the one perfect shot otherwise they are going to lose. Fury is the man.

Long reigning champions just means they are closer to losing,Wlad was aging when Fury beat him in one of the worst displays in heavyweight history and Wilder had a habit of being behind in many of his world title defences against second/third rate challengers.Don't get me wrong,i like Fury,especially now he's punching with menace,but he hasn't beaten enough high quality challengers yet,

[Ambling Alp II]

Look, I’m a Fury fan. I love the act and the rebound. I even love his very awkward singing after bouts even though I have to quickly change the channel to avoid it.

But how in the world can this guy lay claim to greatness when there’s a huge doubt to him being the best heavyweight currently? Let’s face facts here, Usyk is a HUGE problem. Perhaps that’s why he’s sprung this whole “I quit” thing once he finally gets worldwide acclaim. My guess is that Usyk has a ton to do with it. Maybe Fury fights AJ for goofs for the Brits longing to see the clash, which I completely understand due to the mad amount of dollars to be paid. But only the novice of boxing fans would call Fury great without fighting Usyk before it’s all said and done.

How can you be an ATG if you couldn’t even prove that you were the best of your era? You can’t.

He beat a glass jaw Wladimir Klitschko in competitive and awful fight. He also weighs a lot. That makes you an ATG. What more do you want?

[Enlightened-One]

Fury was almost beaten by Wladimir Klitschko who was past his prime. I scored the fight a draw, but the judges scored it for Fury.

The general consensus of the media, the fans and also the official scorecards had Fury beating Klitschko by a comfortable 116-111 margin (with Tyson being deducted a point in the 11th round).

Most people believed that Wladimir only won three rounds.

Let’s also point out that the fight is in the running for THE WORST fight in the history of people smacking each other for sport.

How does your point relate to the scorecards?

Please try to stay on topic if you’re going to comment on one of my factually-accurate posts.

[snake33]

I don't know why Fury doesn't fight Usyk, I think that would be easier than Joshua.
And I think Fury beats Joshua now pretty easy. Joshua used to be dangerous but
that ship may have sailed.

[margaret thatcher]

I don't know why Fury doesn't fight Usyk, I think that would be easier than Joshua.
And I think Fury beats Joshua now pretty easy. Joshua used to be dangerous but
that ship may have sailed.

usyk has no chance vs josh does he

interestingly, the last time fury faced a mobile southpaw he got his face shredded to pieces

[RScarf1]

Fury was almost beaten by Wladimir Klitschko who was past his prime. I scored the fight a draw, but the judges scored it for Fury.

The general consensus of the media, the fans and also the official scorecards had Fury beating Klitschko by a comfortable 116-111 margin (with Tyson being deducted a point in the 11th round).

Most people believed that Wladimir only won three rounds.

One judge scored it 116-111. The other two scored it 115-112. Fury also should have been penalized more than just one point for repeated rabbit punches. Compubox stats: Fury 86 of 371 (23%), Klitschko 52 of 231 (23%). What media had Fury winning by a comfortable margin? The UK media?

[RScarf1]

I don't know why Fury doesn't fight Usyk, I think that would be easier than Joshua.
And I think Fury beats Joshua now pretty easy. Joshua used to be dangerous but
that ship may have sailed.

Fury is avoiding Usyk and Klitschko would have won a rematch. Usyk and Klitschko are both from Ukraine. Coincidence? I think the powers that be want Fury to come back so they can make more money. I believe that the judges for Usyk vs. Joshua II could be biased so that Joshua will win and then Fury will come back.

[sibbo]

Fury was almost beaten by Wladimir Klitschko who was past his prime. I scored the fight a draw, but the judges scored it for Fury.

The general consensus of the media, the fans and also the official scorecards had Fury beating Klitschko by a comfortable 116-111 margin (with Tyson being deducted a point in the 11th round).

Most people believed that Wladimir only won three rounds.

One judge scored it 116-111. The other two scored it 115-112. Fury also should have been penalized more than just one point for repeated rabbit punches. Compubox stats: Fury 86 of 371 (23%), Klitschko 52 of 231 (23%). What media had Fury winning by a comfortable margin? The UK media?

And Klitschko deliberately headbutted fury, yet didn't get penalised... Swings and roundabouts

[Nightmare Roy]

If and it's a big if AJ beats Usyk Fury will be chomping at the bit to get the fight made, he and is team clearly think that's an easy nights work for insane money. I'm sure they believe they could beat Usyk too, but it's a bigger risk for much less reward so I'm not 100% they will go for it. He should do though, he wins all the belts he's completed it mate.

[Bandog]

Flabby Fury knows he was KO'd by Wilder in their first fight. He was within a few seconds of getting KO'd in the 3rd fight. No ATG heavy can come close to losing to someone with the boxing skills of someone like Wilder, or struggle with Otto Wallin.

I think both Joshua and Usyk are better than Fury.

[Enlightened-One]

If and it's a big if AJ beats Usyk Fury will be chomping at the bit to get the fight made, he and is team clearly think that's an easy nights work for insane money. I'm sure they believe they could beat Usyk too, but it's a bigger risk for much less reward so I'm not 100% they will go for it. He should do though, he wins all the belts he's completed it mate.

I agree with what you’re saying, but Fury insists he’s vacating his WBC title and wants Wilder to challenge for the vacant strap (with the assumption ‘The Bronze Bomber’ will be facing Frank Sanchez).

Fury has already held the WBA, IBF & WBO titles.

So if Tyson changes his mind about retiring from the sport and decides to face the winner of Usyk-Joshua, it probably won’t be for the undisputed championship.

If Usyk beats Joshua again, then I suspect that Tyson will probably stay retired, because I don't think it'll be a big enough payday for him, since Oleksandr isn't a commercially big name.

That said, if Tyson Fury insists he’s retired, but reneges on his promise to immediately vacate his WBC title, then I think he’s waiting for the outcome of the AJ-Usyk bout to determine his future in the sport of boxing.

[Enlightened-One]

Fury was almost beaten by Wladimir Klitschko who was past his prime. I scored the fight a draw, but the judges scored it for Fury.

The general consensus of the media, the fans and also the official scorecards had Fury beating Klitschko by a comfortable 116-111 margin (with Tyson being deducted a point in the 11th round).

Most people believed that Wladimir only won three rounds.

One judge scored it 116-111. The other two scored it 115-112.

Klitschko was comfortably defeated by Fury - there was no controversy. It wasn't a close fight.

The official judges felt that Wladimir lost eight or nine rounds, which reflected the general consensus opinion of the media, pundits, and fans alike.

Fury also should have been penalized more than just one point for repeated rabbit punches.

He would have had to have been penalised an awful lot of points to have lost by decision to Klitschko.

Compubox stats: Fury 86 of 371 (23%), Klitschko 52 of 231 (23%).

Nobody scores fights based on Compubox stats.

Only intellectually-challenged emotionally-unstable mentally-disturbed individuals do that.

What media had Fury winning by a comfortable margin? The UK media?

A few examples:

• Sherdog.com (116-111 Fury)
• Harold Lederman - HBO (116-111 Fury)
• Rob Tatum - CombatPress.com (116-111 Fury)
• Scott Christ - BadLeftHook.com (116-111 Fury)
• Dan Rafael - ESPN.com (115-112 Fury)

I honestly don’t believe you watched the Klitschko-Fury bout.

And if you did, you’re probably lying about "Fury almost losing to Klitschko", because your real agenda is to troll the forum.

[RScarf1]

I did watch Klitschko vs. Fury and I honestly scored it a draw. This was before I knew about the punch stats. I agree that punch stats are not used by judges to score a fight. It is useful information though and that is why they are provided after the fight. Boxing News 24 agreed with the 115-112 scores and stated that Fury was "a little better" in the fight, but "definitely not much better" than Klitschko. SB Nation scored it 114-113 for Fury. As you can see, there were media that scored it close and it was close in my opinion.

If Klitschko got a rematch, I think he would have won. He would have been more prepared, not that he did not try his best before, but it helps to know an opponent better. What if Wilder and Fury only had the first fight? Would Fury be viewed as an ATG by anyone? Whatever the reasons were for the Fury vs. Klitschko rematch not happening twice, it didn't happen and it wasn't Klitschko's fault.

I see that Fury is rated No. 12 all time heavyweight by BoxRec which is ahead of No. 13 George Foreman, No. 14 Joe Frazier, No. 15 Mike Tyson, and No. 16 Vitali Klitschko. Recently, Golovkin was rated No. 1 pound for pound among active boxers, but BoxRec claimed to me that there was a "bug" that had to be fixed and now Canelo Alvarez is No. 1 and Golovkin is No. 2. However, I read in another post where someone questioned why Golovkin was ahead of Alvarez considering that Alvarez has a win over Golovkin. The response he received was that the algorithm would be adjusted. That doesn't sound to me like a bug. That sounds to me like you adjust the algorithm to get the outcome you want. I disagree with Fury being rated No. 12 all time heavyweight and who he is rated higher than, so maybe the algorithm should be adjusted.

[sibbo]

Let's be honest here, even if fury continues box and beats Usyk, there's a multitude of people out there who'll still bitch and moan about him, I'll grant you, his record would look better with a win over Usyk, but some punters will never be pleased, and continue to to belittle him....certain people will not be happy until fury gets his clock cleaned, so that they can go on the box forums and brag "haha I said he was sh1t all along", or spent the rest of their lives having wet dreams about fury being stretched out, so they can sleep better at night........ It was the same with Lennox Lewis, despite all his achievements, there's still trolls out there to this day calling him a coward and a ducker for not fighting Vitali again.. . I'd like to see Fury continue too, and I'd like him cement a stronger legacy, but he isn't gonna do that, so good luck to the guy in his retirement.

[margaret thatcher]

Let's be honest here, even if fury continues box and beats Usyk, there's a multitude of people out there who'll still bitch and moan about him, I'll grant you, his record would look better with a win over Usyk, but some punters will never be pleased, and continue to to belittle him....certain people will not be happy until fury gets his clock cleaned, so that they can go on the box forums and brag "haha I said he was sh1t all along", or spent the rest of their lives having wet dreams about fury being stretched out, so they can sleep better at night........ It was the same with Lennox Lewis, despite all his achievements, there's still trolls out there to this day calling him a coward and a ducker for not fighting Vitali again.. . I'd like to see Fury continue too, and I'd like him cement a stronger legacy, but he isn't gonna do that, so good luck to the guy in his retirement.

people are calling for an undisputed fight vs the aj-usyk 2 winner, which is a fight that makes 100 percent sense. pretty much no one is calling for sh!t like fury vs luis ortiz or anyone else. it's' the undisputed fight. if fury beats the aj-usyk 2 winner to be undisputed, he'll have checked off by far the biggest fight in most people's minds. i dont buy that everyone would just move onto another opponent that he'd need to fight to prove himself

this 'retirement' wont last long

[Ricky]

Fury is just a freak show that's bigger than everyone else. The truth is the only great fighter he has beaten is Wladimir Klitchko in a total stink fest that he probably did just enough to nick 7 rounds out of 12. All this talk of being an ATG and retiring after every fight is tedious. How many times has he retired now, 6?

[sibbo]

Let's be honest here, even if fury continues box and beats Usyk, there's a multitude of people out there who'll still bitch and moan about him, I'll grant you, his record would look better with a win over Usyk, but some punters will never be pleased, and continue to to belittle him....certain people will not be happy until fury gets his clock cleaned, so that they can go on the box forums and brag "haha I said he was sh1t all along", or spent the rest of their lives having wet dreams about fury being stretched out, so they can sleep better at night........ It was the same with Lennox Lewis, despite all his achievements, there's still trolls out there to this day calling him a coward and a ducker for not fighting Vitali again.. . I'd like to see Fury continue too, and I'd like him cement a stronger legacy, but he isn't gonna do that, so good luck to the guy in his retirement.

people are calling for an undisputed fight vs the aj-usyk 2 winner, which is a fight that makes 100 percent sense. pretty much no one is calling for sh!t like fury vs luis ortiz or anyone else. it's' the undisputed fight. if fury beats the aj-usyk 2 winner to be undisputed, he'll have checked off by far the biggest fight in most people's minds. i dont buy that everyone would just move onto another opponent that he'd need to fight to prove himself

this 'retirement' wont last long

I hope so, as I say I'd like to see the fight, but it's all down to fury, and how satisfied he is with his career.

[RScarf1]

Fury is just a freak show that's bigger than everyone else. The truth is the only great fighter he has beaten is Wladimir Klitchko in a total stink fest that he probably did just enough to nick 7 rounds out of 12. All this talk of being an ATG and retiring after every fight is tedious. How many times has he retired now, 6?

If Usyk never became a heavyweight, would Fury be retiring? No, because Joshua would be available and people would say why are you retiring? Why not just fight Joshua and then call it a day?

[Enlightened-One]

I did watch Klitschko vs. Fury and I honestly scored it a draw. This was before I knew about the punch stats.

That’ clearly your prerogative, but you really do need to appreciate the fact your opinion is in the overwhelming minority.

I agree that punch stats are not used by judges to score a fight.

Then there’s no point in citing punch stats as a weak attempt to discredit the official scorecards, especially if your opinion about the outcome of a bout is in a significant minority.

Boxing News 24 agreed with the 115-112 scores and stated that Fury was "a little better" in the fight, but "definitely not much better" than Klitschko. SB Nation scored it 114-113 for Fury. As you can see, there were media that scored it close and it was close in my opinion.

But your opinion is still aligned with an overwhelming minority.

You’re entitled to feel that way, as long as you appreciate that others have a reasonable reason to disagree with you.

If Klitschko got a rematch, I think he would have won. He would have been more prepared, not that he did not try his best before, but it helps to know an opponent better.

That works both ways though, because Fury would have made adjustments too.

Also, Fury has a habit of making his opponents’ appear anomalously bad, to the point you question whether there’s something wrong with them.

What if Wilder and Fury only had the first fight? Would Fury be viewed as an ATG by anyone?

Wilder probably would have been forced to either face Fury again or vacate.

And if Wilder ducked the Fury rematch, then Tyson would have moved onto other foes.

Either way, most people believed that Fury beat Wilder in their first fight.

And he did it twice more to remove all doubt from everyone’s minds.

Whatever the reasons were for the Fury vs. Klitschko rematch not happening twice, it didn't happen and it wasn't Klitschko's fault.

There was no need for the rematch, because Fury beat Klitschko by a wide margin – at least that was the general consensus.

The only reason why Fury was obliged to face Klitschko again was due to the immediate rematch clause.

In fact, the IBF didn’t want Fury to face Klitschko again and even stripped him of his title, because of his contractual obligation to do so.

I see that Fury is rated No. 12 all time heavyweight by BoxRec which is ahead of No. 13 George Foreman, No. 14 Joe Frazier, No. 15 Mike Tyson, and No. 16 Vitali Klitschko. Recently, Golovkin was rated No. 1 pound for pound among active boxers, but BoxRec claimed to me that there was a "bug" that had to be fixed and now Canelo Alvarez is No. 1 and Golovkin is No. 2. However, I read in another post where someone questioned why Golovkin was ahead of Alvarez considering that Alvarez has a win over Golovkin. The response he received was that the algorithm would be adjusted. That doesn't sound to me like a bug. That sounds to me like you adjust the algorithm to get the outcome you want. I disagree with Fury being rated No. 12 all time heavyweight and who he is rated higher than, so maybe the algorithm should be adjusted.

BoxRec’s ratings often contain many inexplicable anomalies, such as some of their previous (fairly recent) mistakes:

• David Mercardo as the third best pound-for-pound fighter on the planet!
• Rating Gervonta Davis above Josh Taylor at junior welterweight
• Luis Nery ranked sixth on their pound-for-pound ratings
• Jared Anderson rated 58th at heavyweight
• Chris Eubank Jr rated above Vasyl Lomachenko
• Billy Joe Saunders rated 4th at 168lb, without even competing in that weight class
• Demetrius Andrade rated 11th and Jermall Charlo rated 6th on their pound-for-pound list

I am not going to defend BoxRec’s ratings.

They are a useful guide, but very flawed, which means they shouldn’t be taken too seriously.

[margaret thatcher]

rating callum smith as the #1 light heavy

[Enlightened-One]

rating callum smith as the #1 light heavy

Kell Brook rated above Khaosai Galaxy, Azumah Nelson, Aaron Pryor, Naseem Hamed, Miguel Cotto, Ricky Hatton, Riddick Bowe, Sergey Kovalev, Eusebio Pedroza, Julian Jackson, James Toney, Oleksandr Usyk etc.